Changing Motherboard to ASUS Z68

I currently have the following:-

Asus P5B Deluxe 965 Socket 775 Motherboard
Intel CPU Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz 1066FSB LGA775 4MB cache Retail inc fan
Asus EN GT240 Silent 1024MB DDR
Antec Sonata II Ultra Quiet Midi Tower
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
Geil Value DDR2 4.0GB PC6400 Dual Channel memory kit (4 x 1GB)800MHz
(5-5-5-15)
2 x HDD 1 x Seagate 250GB; 1 x Seagate 500GB Barracuda SATA II 300 7200rpm
16MB cache Hard Disk Drive
Plus a Lite-On DVD/RW IDE

I have been really happy with the above, but now feel it is the time to
upgrade.

I was thinking of changing the Motherboard, Memory, and CPU ) and if no IDE
connection on the motherboard the DVD/RW

This is what I have in mind and would probably purchase from CCL
(http://www.cclonline.com/category/400/PC-Components/)

Asus P8Z68-V LX Socket 1155 Motherboard 90-MIBH80-G0EAY0KZ
Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz Quad Core Processor
Kingston 4x 4GB DDR3 1066MHz Non-ECC 240pin DIMM Memory Module
KVR1066D3N7/4G

I am assuming I can still use the existing Case, Graphics Card, HDDs and
Operating System (Win 7 - 64 bit NOT OEM)

If any one has the time could they please look at what I intend to do and
advise me if there is anything that is glowingly wrong (especially the RAM).
I would appreciate any comments and advice please.

TIA

Allan wrote:
I currently have the following:-

Asus P5B Deluxe 965 Socket 775 Motherboard
Intel CPU Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz 1066FSB LGA775 4MB cache Retail inc fan
Asus EN GT240 Silent 1024MB DDR
Antec Sonata II Ultra Quiet Midi Tower
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
Geil Value DDR2 4.0GB PC6400 Dual Channel memory kit (4 x 1GB)800MHz
(5-5-5-15)
2 x HDD 1 x Seagate 250GB; 1 x Seagate 500GB Barracuda SATA II 300
7200rpm 16MB cache Hard Disk Drive
Plus a Lite-On DVD/RW IDE

I have been really happy with the above, but now feel it is the time to
upgrade.

I was thinking of changing the Motherboard, Memory, and CPU ) and if no
IDE connection on the motherboard the DVD/RW

This is what I have in mind and would probably purchase from CCL
(http://www.cclonline.com/category/400/PC-Components/)

Asus P8Z68-V LX Socket 1155 Motherboard 90-MIBH80-G0EAY0KZ
Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz Quad Core Processor
Kingston 4x 4GB DDR3 1066MHz Non-ECC 240pin DIMM Memory Module
KVR1066D3N7/4G

I am assuming I can still use the existing Case, Graphics Card, HDDs and
Operating System (Win 7 - 64 bit NOT OEM)

If any one has the time could they please look at what I intend to do
and advise me if there is anything that is glowingly wrong (especially
the RAM).
I would appreciate any comments and advice please.

TIA

Generally speaking, it's pretty hard to go completely wrong when
picking components for a new system. As long as you bought the right
kind of RAM to fit in it, and checked the CPU compatibility chart on
the manufacturer site, you should be OK. Judging by the table here,
it's possible 0401 BIOS was the one released with the board (i.e.
good odds 2600K is supported "out of the box", without a BIOS update).

http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Int...8Z68V_LX/#CPUS

So about all I can do, is a bit of nit-picking.

ATX full sized motherboards are 12"x9.6" and there is room for 9 or so
mounting holes. The standoffs underneath these holes, help hold the
motherboard while you're changing out components.

Your motherboard selection is 9.0" wide, and a bit narrow. As near as I
can determine, it's missing the three right-most holes. This is only an
issue while inserting and removing RAM. The motherboard will flex a little
bit while that is going on. Downward flexure can be stopped, by propping
a non-conductive object underneath the edge of the motherboard (like a
pink eraser perhaps). Pulling forces though, those are best stopped by a
real standoff and screw.

The motherboard has 8111E NIC. Some brands of NICs are slightly better
than others. There is at least one RealTek NIC chip, where it takes
a powerful processor to get the Ethernet link to run at full rate. That
would be a concern if you had a NAS and stored most of your files on
a file server. Since you've got a damn fine processor, perhaps this isn't
a big issue. At the very least, try to find some transfer rate benchmarks
for the 8111E to see what kind of numbers it gives. I was a bit ****ed
when I bought a GbE NIC card and the RealTek chip couldn't run flat out.
But it's a different part number than yours.

On the RAM, I would start by questioning what you'll be doing with 16GB.
First, I was impressed by how cheap RAM has become. So from that perspective,
not a big deal. Also, your memory modules don't have heat spreaders
and this is actually a desirable properly when installing four sticks.
If you install four sticks, and the memory slots are close together,
sticks without spreaders allow a bit more room for air circulation. When
running at 1.5V, the modules won't be getting very hot, and don't
really need spreaders. And if you have fancy spreaders, they can almost
be touching one another, when four are installed. Spreaders can almost
insulate the modules from the surrounding air.

A price check on your RAM (Newegg) gives a figure of $21 per 4GB module.
And four would be $84. Thats extremely good for a 16GB system. And without
the heat spreaders to get in the way, they'll likely have a long life
(and I happen to like Kingston, and have had good luck with them in my
last two builds).

Now, if you were to settle for a 2x4GB kit, then you might end up with
heat spreaders. If you're only using two sticks, chances are the modules
will have plenty of room around them. For example, this kit (selected by
"Most Reviews"), is $47, versus say around $42 for two of the sticks you
chose.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231314

Now, let's compare the specs. Your Kingston are DDR3-1066 CAS7.
The GSkill I selected are DDR3-1600 CAS9. To compare latency of
the two products, we scale them

CAS7 * 1600/1066 = "CAS 10.5"

So in terms of latency, the $47 kit is better by about 1.5 CAS points.
And the transfer rate is better by 1600/1066 in terms of the gigabytes
per second you get from it. (This is assuming, with the integrated
memory controller in the 2600K, that there are no bottlenecks to using
extravagantly fast RAM.)

My experience with real world, indicates the RAM on these things probably
doesn't make that much difference. So it's really a matter of whether
you think there is a reason to have 16GB. That's enough memory to run
a server, have a database or Exchange running on it and so on.

I don't see a point going much faster than that. You can find enthusiast
RAM that will go much fast (and scaling the CAS, have lower effective
latency.

So if we dumped your $84 16GB selection, got a $47 8GB kit, that would
leave $37 you could put into a slightly different motherboard selection.

But these comments are largely a "salt to taste" kinda thing.

The main thing is, for anything you buy, to check the reviews. Newegg
and Amazon have customer reviews. And Asus has vip.asus.com forum, where you can
look for additional gripes about your potential purchase.

http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx...Language=en-us

Your video card is about 9" long, and will pretty well line up with the
right edge of your new 9" wide motherboard. The chipset heatsink is
low profile, so shouldn't get in the way.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-131-781-Z03?$S640W$

Your existing power supply shouldn't need to be changed. Even if you had
a 2x2 ATX12V, it'll still plug into the 2x4 hole on the motherboard. The
2x4 is in relatively close proximity to the CPU socket area, and that's
only a concern if you have a monster third-party cooler. If the ATX 12V power
was moved elsewhere (like on some of my motherboards), then the issue is,
it's hard to release the locking tab to be able to pull the cable when
you want to. The power your processor draws, should not require more than
the 2x2 connector. Similarly, on the 24 pin power connector, if your
supply has a 20 pin connector, you can still use it. Since you're using
a single video card, and it's not a monstrosity, there probably won't be
an issue with motherboard 12V current draw. (Slots run off 12V1, CPU runs
off 12V2.)

(How to use a 20 pin, on a 24 pin motherboard)

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/20in24.jpg

Using a 20 pin is possible, because the power draw on your video card is
relatively low.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/gra...0_3.html#sect0

Using this table,

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video...sis_plines.png

the GT240 draws 3.6 amps from the 12V in the PCI Express slot. The 20 pin ATX
connector is rated for 6 amps, while the 24 pin with the two yellow wires is
capable of 12 amps. With only one of those video cards, there shouldn't be a
problem. Video card 3.6 amps plus 0.5 amps for motherboard fan headers, is
around 4.1 amps. So you can use an older power supply with 20 pinner on it if
you want.

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:
I currently have the following:-

Asus P5B Deluxe 965 Socket 775 Motherboard
Intel CPU Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz 1066FSB LGA775 4MB cache Retail inc
fan
Asus EN GT240 Silent 1024MB DDR
Antec Sonata II Ultra Quiet Midi Tower
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
Geil Value DDR2 4.0GB PC6400 Dual Channel memory kit (4 x 1GB)800MHz
(5-5-5-15)
2 x HDD 1 x Seagate 250GB; 1 x Seagate 500GB Barracuda SATA II 300
7200rpm 16MB cache Hard Disk Drive
Plus a Lite-On DVD/RW IDE

I have been really happy with the above, but now feel it is the time to
upgrade.

I was thinking of changing the Motherboard, Memory, and CPU ) and if no
IDE connection on the motherboard the DVD/RW

This is what I have in mind and would probably purchase from CCL
(http://www.cclonline.com/category/400/PC-Components/)

Asus P8Z68-V LX Socket 1155 Motherboard 90-MIBH80-G0EAY0KZ
Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz Quad Core Processor
Kingston 4x 4GB DDR3 1066MHz Non-ECC 240pin DIMM Memory Module
KVR1066D3N7/4G

I am assuming I can still use the existing Case, Graphics Card, HDDs and
Operating System (Win 7 - 64 bit NOT OEM)

If any one has the time could they please look at what I intend to do and
advise me if there is anything that is glowingly wrong (especially the
RAM).
I would appreciate any comments and advice please.

TIA

Generally speaking, it's pretty hard to go completely wrong when
picking components for a new system. As long as you bought the right
kind of RAM to fit in it, and checked the CPU compatibility chart on
the manufacturer site, you should be OK. Judging by the table here,
it's possible 0401 BIOS was the one released with the board (i.e.
good odds 2600K is supported "out of the box", without a BIOS update).

http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Int...8Z68V_LX/#CPUS

So about all I can do, is a bit of nit-picking.

ATX full sized motherboards are 12"x9.6" and there is room for 9 or so
mounting holes. The standoffs underneath these holes, help hold the
motherboard while you're changing out components.

Your motherboard selection is 9.0" wide, and a bit narrow. As near as I
can determine, it's missing the three right-most holes. This is only an
issue while inserting and removing RAM. The motherboard will flex a little
bit while that is going on. Downward flexure can be stopped, by propping
a non-conductive object underneath the edge of the motherboard (like a
pink eraser perhaps). Pulling forces though, those are best stopped by a
real standoff and screw.

The motherboard has 8111E NIC. Some brands of NICs are slightly better
than others. There is at least one RealTek NIC chip, where it takes
a powerful processor to get the Ethernet link to run at full rate. That
would be a concern if you had a NAS and stored most of your files on
a file server. Since you've got a damn fine processor, perhaps this isn't
a big issue. At the very least, try to find some transfer rate benchmarks
for the 8111E to see what kind of numbers it gives. I was a bit ****ed
when I bought a GbE NIC card and the RealTek chip couldn't run flat out.
But it's a different part number than yours.

On the RAM, I would start by questioning what you'll be doing with 16GB.
First, I was impressed by how cheap RAM has become. So from that
perspective,
not a big deal. Also, your memory modules don't have heat spreaders
and this is actually a desirable properly when installing four sticks.
If you install four sticks, and the memory slots are close together,
sticks without spreaders allow a bit more room for air circulation. When
running at 1.5V, the modules won't be getting very hot, and don't
really need spreaders. And if you have fancy spreaders, they can almost
be touching one another, when four are installed. Spreaders can almost
insulate the modules from the surrounding air.

A price check on your RAM (Newegg) gives a figure of $21 per 4GB module.
And four would be $84. Thats extremely good for a 16GB system. And without
the heat spreaders to get in the way, they'll likely have a long life
(and I happen to like Kingston, and have had good luck with them in my
last two builds).

Now, if you were to settle for a 2x4GB kit, then you might end up with
heat spreaders. If you're only using two sticks, chances are the modules
will have plenty of room around them. For example, this kit (selected by
"Most Reviews"), is $47, versus say around $42 for two of the sticks you
chose.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231314

Now, let's compare the specs. Your Kingston are DDR3-1066 CAS7.
The GSkill I selected are DDR3-1600 CAS9. To compare latency of
the two products, we scale them

CAS7 * 1600/1066 = "CAS 10.5"

So in terms of latency, the $47 kit is better by about 1.5 CAS points.
And the transfer rate is better by 1600/1066 in terms of the gigabytes
per second you get from it. (This is assuming, with the integrated
memory controller in the 2600K, that there are no bottlenecks to using
extravagantly fast RAM.)

My experience with real world, indicates the RAM on these things probably
doesn't make that much difference. So it's really a matter of whether
you think there is a reason to have 16GB. That's enough memory to run
a server, have a database or Exchange running on it and so on.

I don't see a point going much faster than that. You can find enthusiast
RAM that will go much fast (and scaling the CAS, have lower effective
latency.

So if we dumped your $84 16GB selection, got a $47 8GB kit, that would
leave $37 you could put into a slightly different motherboard selection.

But these comments are largely a "salt to taste" kinda thing.

The main thing is, for anything you buy, to check the reviews. Newegg
and Amazon have customer reviews. And Asus has vip.asus.com forum, where
you can
look for additional gripes about your potential purchase.

http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx...Language=en-us

Your video card is about 9" long, and will pretty well line up with the
right edge of your new 9" wide motherboard. The chipset heatsink is
low profile, so shouldn't get in the way.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-131-781-Z03?$S640W$

Your existing power supply shouldn't need to be changed. Even if you had
a 2x2 ATX12V, it'll still plug into the 2x4 hole on the motherboard. The
2x4 is in relatively close proximity to the CPU socket area, and that's
only a concern if you have a monster third-party cooler. If the ATX 12V
power
was moved elsewhere (like on some of my motherboards), then the issue is,
it's hard to release the locking tab to be able to pull the cable when
you want to. The power your processor draws, should not require more than
the 2x2 connector. Similarly, on the 24 pin power connector, if your
supply has a 20 pin connector, you can still use it. Since you're using
a single video card, and it's not a monstrosity, there probably won't be
an issue with motherboard 12V current draw. (Slots run off 12V1, CPU runs
off 12V2.)

(How to use a 20 pin, on a 24 pin motherboard)

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/20in24.jpg

Using a 20 pin is possible, because the power draw on your video card is
relatively low.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/gra...0_3.html#sect0

Using this table,

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video...sis_plines.png

the GT240 draws 3.6 amps from the 12V in the PCI Express slot. The 20 pin
ATX
connector is rated for 6 amps, while the 24 pin with the two yellow wires
is
capable of 12 amps. With only one of those video cards, there shouldn't be
a
problem. Video card 3.6 amps plus 0.5 amps for motherboard fan headers, is
around 4.1 amps. So you can use an older power supply with 20 pinner on it
if
you want.

Paul


Paul

I really do appreciate your TIME and KNOWLEDGE giving this comprehensive
reply.
Most of the heavy work I will be doing on this PC will be converting MPEG
files to .AVI (or similar); the reason I went for 4 x 4GB of RAM was a)
mainly because it was so cheap and b) I thought it would help the PC run
smoother during conversions to .AVI

If you feel 2 x 4GB should be adequate I am more than willing to take your
advice and would be grateful if you could recommend what, make model of RAM
you would use (Heat spreaders?).

You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard, as you
say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask you which
motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range

Can I once again THANK YOU for your comments as I really do appreciate your
views

Many many thanks


Allan

Allan wrote:

some snips

You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard, as
you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask you
which motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range

Allan

I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to offer.

Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best Reviews.
In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely to be
selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking for
that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.

What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is getting
motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
(While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be the product
isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting they're ripping
the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay away
from the thing.

In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not mature.
On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle down.
After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by then,
they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards (workstation
class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most popular
boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't sell well,
you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
(It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off. So
some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
not going to run into problems like that.)

When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers "bad luck",
is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers at the
top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
matches their rating.

You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old choice.
Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)

HTH,
Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:

some snips

You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard, as
you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask you
which motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range

Allan

I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to
offer.

Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best
Reviews.
In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely to be
selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking for
that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.

What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is
getting
motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
(While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be the
product
isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting they're
ripping
the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay away
from the thing.

In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not
mature.
On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle down.
After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by
then,
they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards
(workstation
class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most popular
boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't sell
well,
you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
(It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off. So
some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
not going to run into problems like that.)

When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers "bad
luck",
is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers at the
top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
matches their rating.

You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old choice.
Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)

HTH,
Paul

Thank you for that, I will think about it over the next 24 hours and if it
is Ok with you, I will post my final decision on here and you can then
PLEASE give me your views

Once again thanks

"Allan" nospam wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:

some snips

You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard, as
you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask you
which motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range

Allan

I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to
offer.

Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best
Reviews.
In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely to
be
selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking for
that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.

What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is
getting
motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
(While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be the
product
isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting they're
ripping
the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay away
from the thing.

In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not
mature.
On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle down.
After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by
then,
they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards
(workstation
class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most
popular
boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't sell
well,
you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
(It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off. So
some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
not going to run into problems like that.)

When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers "bad
luck",
is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers at
the
top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
matches their rating.

You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old choice.
Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)

HTH,
Paul

Thank you for that, I will think about it over the next 24 hours and if it
is Ok with you, I will post my final decision on here and you can then
PLEASE give me your views

Once again thanks


Paul

I went for the following:-

Asus P8Z68-V LE Socket 1155 Motherboard
CORE I7-2600K 3.40GHZ unlocked plus Intel Fan
Corsair Vengeance Performance Memory 2 x 4GB
LiteOn iHAS122 22X DVD-RW/RAM Sata
ASUS EN GT240 1GB Graphics DDR3 (already had)
When it arrived, I started to scratch my head and thought this was way above
my head and I am totally out of my depth. Any case I battled on and to my
surprise I managed to get the PC up and running (first attempt) and
installed Windows 7 Home Premium and all my other programs.

I have three questions to ask you please

1 The new motherboard also has a 8 pin atx socket ................ my
previous Asus MB ony had four pin connection.
Unfortunately the Antec Case I had only had a 4 and a 6 pin connection. I
opted for the 4 pin connection as it plugged into the first part on the
motherboard ............is that correct or should I use the 6 pin or should
I do something else??????

2 I had a little problem with the fan, it wouldn't connect easily ......I
think I have now managed it ok; however when converting mpg files to avi the
temperature fluctuates between about 52C and 60C does that sound about right
(room temp is about 21C) ? Motherboard constant all the time at about 26C.
When idling the CPU is about 32C. I have the latest BIOS and also use the
ASUS A1 Suite to take readings

3 When using the Asus A1 suite I used the TurboV EVO auto turning ........it
said it increased it by 30%; however whilst doing a MPG to AVI conversion I
had a Heat warning from the A1 Suite saying it was 72C .................. It
then hovered around 78C (no higher that 80C) is this too hot to run ? Do you
think I have the fan fitted correct?

ps also ran prime95 but had to turn it off after about 5 minutes as it went
well above 80C

Hope that makes sense.

TIA

Allan wrote:

"Allan" nospam wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:

some snips

You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular
motherboard, as you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money
spare, may I ask you which motherboard you would recommend within
the ASUS range

Allan

I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to
offer.

Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best
Reviews.
In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely
to be
selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking
for
that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.

What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is
getting
motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
(While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be
the product
isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting
they're ripping
the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay
away
from the thing.

In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not
mature.
On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle
down.
After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by
then,
they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards
(workstation
class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most
popular
boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't
sell well,
you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
(It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off. So
some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
not going to run into problems like that.)

When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers
"bad luck",
is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers
at the
top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
matches their rating.

You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old choice.
Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)

HTH,
Paul

Thank you for that, I will think about it over the next 24 hours and
if it is Ok with you, I will post my final decision on here and you
can then PLEASE give me your views

Once again thanks


Paul

I went for the following:-

Asus P8Z68-V LE Socket 1155 Motherboard
CORE I7-2600K 3.40GHZ unlocked plus Intel Fan
Corsair Vengeance Performance Memory 2 x 4GB
LiteOn iHAS122 22X DVD-RW/RAM Sata
ASUS EN GT240 1GB Graphics DDR3 (already had)
When it arrived, I started to scratch my head and thought this was way
above my head and I am totally out of my depth. Any case I battled on
and to my surprise I managed to get the PC up and running (first
attempt) and installed Windows 7 Home Premium and all my other programs.

I have three questions to ask you please

1 The new motherboard also has a 8 pin atx socket ................ my
previous Asus MB ony had four pin connection.
Unfortunately the Antec Case I had only had a 4 and a 6 pin connection.
I opted for the 4 pin connection as it plugged into the first part on
the motherboard ............is that correct or should I use the 6 pin
or should I do something else??????

2 I had a little problem with the fan, it wouldn't connect easily
......I think I have now managed it ok; however when converting mpg
files to avi the temperature fluctuates between about 52C and 60C does
that sound about right (room temp is about 21C) ? Motherboard constant
all the time at about 26C. When idling the CPU is about 32C. I have the
latest BIOS and also use the ASUS A1 Suite to take readings

3 When using the Asus A1 suite I used the TurboV EVO auto turning
........it said it increased it by 30%; however whilst doing a MPG to
AVI conversion I had a Heat warning from the A1 Suite saying it was 72C
.................. It then hovered around 78C (no higher that 80C) is
this too hot to run ? Do you think I have the fan fitted correct?

ps also ran prime95 but had to turn it off after about 5 minutes as it
went well above 80C

Hope that makes sense.

TIA

The ATX12V 2x2 connector has two yellow wires and two black wires. It's
meant to carry the power the processor uses. The rail is called 12V2
(you check the 12V2 entry on the power supply label, to see if it
can provide the needed current for the processor).

There is probably more than 144W of capability by using a 2x2 connector.
Your 2600K is 95W TDP. So the 2x2 connector with the two yellow wires
is enough to make it work. You don't need a power supply with a 2x4 connector.
The current rises when you overclock, but you've still got a bit of headroom.

When a motherboard comes with a 2x4 ATX12V connector, the spare two holes
can be covered by a sticker. That helps point you to the correct
orientation for the connector. The latch on the connector, should match
up with the latch on the motherboard end. The shape of the nylon shell
on each of the pins, helps ensure correct orientation as well.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/4pinin8.jpg

*******

For typical temperatures, try reading the Feedback section
of the Newegg entry for 2600K.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115070

"Cons: Not really a con, but not all chips are created equally in terms
of overclocking. I have to use a pretty high voltage in order to
achieve a *stable* 4.5 ghz (1.4v).

Other Thoughts: You'll want at minimum an after market heatsink fan if
you plan on overclocking this CPU to any extent. It may
have just been my particular chip or a thermal sensor,
but I couldn't overclock with the stock heatsink fan hardly
at all without hitting some uncomfortable temperatures (I'm
talking 75 C after a couple minutes of prime95, well before
even hitting the thermal saturation point!)."

Various posters in the Feedback section, describe their cooling solutions,
but I don't know if I'd go as far as they did.

*******

I notice after market heatsinks are a lot more expensive now. This is an
example of the massive heatsinks you can get. This one has the heatpipes
making contact with the processor, which is not my favorite config. I'd
prefer a base plate with the pipes mounted in it, to spread the heat
into the pipes. At least the reviews didn't complain about installing
this thing. At one time, the original Tower was a bear to install, and
hard to get at the fasteners with the heatsink in the way. For things
this large, you have to inspect the inside of your computer case, for
clearance. For example, if your computer case wasn't very wide, you
might not be able to get the side panel back on :-)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835154011

*******

The processor is designed to protect itself, and should not run
so hot as to endanger lifespan. It'll throttle, meaning you
lose some performance, if it gets too hot. Which is why, if you're
going to be cranking it, it would pay to improve the cooling a bit.

You can continue to experiment with the retail cooler, perhaps
re-applying paste before reinstalling it.

On my current computer, I have an aftermarket. While my backup
computer has a similar processor, but uses the provided Intel fan.
And they really aren't that much different, in usage. But since
you're getting closer to the limit, you might want to work on
your cooling a bit. Neither of my machines runs that hot.

You can use RMClock to check for throttling, as long as the
program knows about your processor. So this program could
give you some hints. You can experiment with Speedfan for
fan speed control, like they did, and reduce the cooling
on the processor until you see throttling occur. That will tell
you what kind of headroom you have. If you let it get hot
enough (about 20C over throttle point), the computer will switch
off (so don't have any important files open at the time).

(Demo)
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/cpu/in...res-core2.html

(Download - look for RMClock, available as RAR or .exe self-extracting)
http://cpu.rightmark.org/download.shtml

There are probably other programs that can tell you about
throttling, but I haven't been looking for any recently.

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:

"Allan" nospam wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:

some snips

You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard,
as you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask
you which motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range

Allan

I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to
offer.

Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best
Reviews.
In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely to
be
selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking
for
that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.

What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is
getting
motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
(While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be the
product
isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting they're
ripping
the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay
away
from the thing.

In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not
mature.
On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle
down.
After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by
then,
they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards
(workstation
class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most
popular
boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't sell
well,
you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
(It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off.
So
some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
not going to run into problems like that.)

When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers "bad
luck",
is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers at
the
top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
matches their rating.

You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old
choice.
Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)

HTH,
Paul

Thank you for that, I will think about it over the next 24 hours and if
it is Ok with you, I will post my final decision on here and you can
then PLEASE give me your views

Once again thanks


Paul

I went for the following:-

Asus P8Z68-V LE Socket 1155 Motherboard
CORE I7-2600K 3.40GHZ unlocked plus Intel Fan
Corsair Vengeance Performance Memory 2 x 4GB
LiteOn iHAS122 22X DVD-RW/RAM Sata
ASUS EN GT240 1GB Graphics DDR3 (already had)
When it arrived, I started to scratch my head and thought this was way
above my head and I am totally out of my depth. Any case I battled on and
to my surprise I managed to get the PC up and running (first attempt) and
installed Windows 7 Home Premium and all my other programs.

I have three questions to ask you please

1 The new motherboard also has a 8 pin atx socket ................ my
previous Asus MB ony had four pin connection.
Unfortunately the Antec Case I had only had a 4 and a 6 pin connection. I
opted for the 4 pin connection as it plugged into the first part on the
motherboard ............is that correct or should I use the 6 pin or
should I do something else??????

2 I had a little problem with the fan, it wouldn't connect easily ......I
think I have now managed it ok; however when converting mpg files to avi
the temperature fluctuates between about 52C and 60C does that sound
about right (room temp is about 21C) ? Motherboard constant all the time
at about 26C. When idling the CPU is about 32C. I have the latest BIOS
and also use the ASUS A1 Suite to take readings

3 When using the Asus A1 suite I used the TurboV EVO auto turning
........it said it increased it by 30%; however whilst doing a MPG to AVI
conversion I had a Heat warning from the A1 Suite saying it was 72C
.................. It then hovered around 78C (no higher that 80C) is
this too hot to run ? Do you think I have the fan fitted correct?

ps also ran prime95 but had to turn it off after about 5 minutes as it
went well above 80C

Hope that makes sense.

TIA

The ATX12V 2x2 connector has two yellow wires and two black wires. It's
meant to carry the power the processor uses. The rail is called 12V2
(you check the 12V2 entry on the power supply label, to see if it
can provide the needed current for the processor).

There is probably more than 144W of capability by using a 2x2 connector.
Your 2600K is 95W TDP. So the 2x2 connector with the two yellow wires
is enough to make it work. You don't need a power supply with a 2x4
connector.
The current rises when you overclock, but you've still got a bit of
headroom.

When a motherboard comes with a 2x4 ATX12V connector, the spare two holes
can be covered by a sticker. That helps point you to the correct
orientation for the connector. The latch on the connector, should match
up with the latch on the motherboard end. The shape of the nylon shell
on each of the pins, helps ensure correct orientation as well.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/4pinin8.jpg

*******

For typical temperatures, try reading the Feedback section
of the Newegg entry for 2600K.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115070

"Cons: Not really a con, but not all chips are created equally in terms
of overclocking. I have to use a pretty high voltage in order to
achieve a *stable* 4.5 ghz (1.4v).

Other Thoughts: You'll want at minimum an after market heatsink fan if
you plan on overclocking this CPU to any extent. It
may
have just been my particular chip or a thermal sensor,
but I couldn't overclock with the stock heatsink fan
hardly
at all without hitting some uncomfortable temperatures
(I'm
talking 75 C after a couple minutes of prime95, well
before
even hitting the thermal saturation point!)."

Various posters in the Feedback section, describe their cooling solutions,
but I don't know if I'd go as far as they did.

*******

I notice after market heatsinks are a lot more expensive now. This is an
example of the massive heatsinks you can get. This one has the heatpipes
making contact with the processor, which is not my favorite config. I'd
prefer a base plate with the pipes mounted in it, to spread the heat
into the pipes. At least the reviews didn't complain about installing
this thing. At one time, the original Tower was a bear to install, and
hard to get at the fasteners with the heatsink in the way. For things
this large, you have to inspect the inside of your computer case, for
clearance. For example, if your computer case wasn't very wide, you
might not be able to get the side panel back on :-)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835154011

*******

The processor is designed to protect itself, and should not run
so hot as to endanger lifespan. It'll throttle, meaning you
lose some performance, if it gets too hot. Which is why, if you're
going to be cranking it, it would pay to improve the cooling a bit.

You can continue to experiment with the retail cooler, perhaps
re-applying paste before reinstalling it.

On my current computer, I have an aftermarket. While my backup
computer has a similar processor, but uses the provided Intel fan.
And they really aren't that much different, in usage. But since
you're getting closer to the limit, you might want to work on
your cooling a bit. Neither of my machines runs that hot.

You can use RMClock to check for throttling, as long as the
program knows about your processor. So this program could
give you some hints. You can experiment with Speedfan for
fan speed control, like they did, and reduce the cooling
on the processor until you see throttling occur. That will tell
you what kind of headroom you have. If you let it get hot
enough (about 20C over throttle point), the computer will switch
off (so don't have any important files open at the time).

(Demo)
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/cpu/in...res-core2.html

(Download - look for RMClock, available as RAR or .exe self-extracting)
http://cpu.rightmark.org/download.shtml

There are probably other programs that can tell you about
throttling, but I haven't been looking for any recently.

Paul

Once again many many thanks for your detailed advice and help
I have a little bit or reading to do now :-)

Could you please just clarify when I might use the 6 pin ATX
................... are you saying IF the 4 pin was not powerful enough I
could use the 6 pin?

Thank You

Allan wrote:


Once again many many thanks for your detailed advice and help
I have a little bit or reading to do now :-)

Could you please just clarify when I might use the 6 pin ATX
.................. are you saying IF the 4 pin was not powerful enough I
could use the 6 pin?

Thank You

The 2x4 ATX12V (four yellow on one side, four black on the other),
is for extreme overclocking. for example, on Tomshardware, they
cranked a D 805 to 4GHz, and the power draw is over 200 watts
when you do that. A 2x2 connector would begin to overheat at that
level of abuse. And then you'd want to use a 2x4 and ensure the
12V2 rating on the power supply is 200W/12V = 17 amps or more.

In your case, you're not anywhere near that level (yet). I don't
have a 2600K here, so can't measure the power for you. I measure
the power on my processors here, by using a clamp-on ammeter to get
a DC current reading, and that's how I can tell whether I'm in
good shape or not.

To give an example, on one 65W processor, power stays below 36W,
even with Prime95. On another 65w processor, it might be around 45W.

Using an older processor (P4), the measured power was actually
a couple watts higher than the TDP value. But current generation
processors, tend to be on the low side, rather than the high side.
The high side behavior peaked around Prescott days.

Note that there are a number of small connectors on the supply.
There is the 2x2 ATX12V (two yellow, two black wires). But there
is also the 2x2 section of the 24 pin main connector, but it has
four different colored wires. Occasionally, someone tries to
connect that four different color connector, to their ATX12V, with
disastrous results.

There are also 2x3 and 2x4 PCI Express connectors, but they shouldn't
mate with the motherboard. (I haven't tested that though.)
The shapes of the nylon shell around the pins, are to help
prevent that sort of thing.

Power supplies also come with a 2x4 style connector, that splits
into two pieces. That type is handy for dealing with an old
motherboard (with 2x2 connector only on the motherboard), or
dealing with a newer motherboard with a 2x4. You split the
connector in two, when you want just a 2x2.

And some supplies, even come with one 2x2 as well as a fixed 2x4
that doesn't come apart. Usually, they'll all be part of the same
cable assembly, as a hint they're part of 12V2 output.

This page shows pictures of many of these variations.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

*******

If you're overclocking 30%, that would be 95W * 1.3 = 123.5W.
If the Vcore converter was 90% efficient, the input power needed
to provide that power level would be 123.5W/0.90 = 137.2W.

The most conservative rating for the 2x2 is 144W (12V @ 6A on two wires).
The pins might be good for eight amps each, depending on the wire
gauge used (fatter wire, removes more heat). So even at 30% overclock,
you're still under the limit. Now, if you start cranking VCore, as
the guy in that Newegg article was doing, then you might manage to
get over 144W. But without a clamp-on ammeter, it's pretty hard to
check.

Yes, you can fit a multimeter in series with ATX12V, but your typical
garden variety multimeter has a limit of 10 amps before the fuse blows.
So to measure 12 amps, you'd need a better quality ammeter, or the
services of a clamp-on ammeter.

My ammeter can measure up to 400 amps. In fact, it doesn't really have
good "low" ranges. But being a "non-contact" device, I can quickly take
readings with it (you just clamp it around both yellow wires at the same
time, and it takes the summation of the current flow). Too bad it costs
so much more than a regular multimeter. It uses a Hall probe, to sense the
current flow. Clamp-on ammeters come in AC only, or AC/DC, and for
computer usage, you want DC measurement ranges. To measure DC
currents, implies Hall probe technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_probe#Hall_probe

My clamp-on ammeter.

http://www.mitchellinstrument.com/me...8/380947_1.jpg

Using a clamp-on ammeter. When measuring an AC cord, you have to
split the wire cable between wires, so that only one wire goes
into the jaws of the instrument (otherwise, sticking the jaws around
the entire cord, the magnetic fields around the wires cancel out).
I have a home made "breakout cable" with the wires spread apart, for
that purpose, so I don't have to ruin any good cords.

On an ATX supply, all the wires are exposed, so you can get the necessary
wire groupings right within the jaws. On the output side of the ATX supply,
you're making DC range measurements. On the input side (if you wanted to do
a measurement there), it would be AC ranges. For AC inputs, a
Kill-O-Watt meter is the instrument of choice, rather than one of
these. Kill-O-Watt can take power factor into account.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z-KfZvbjyBY/0.jpg

*******

So if you were doing that extreme an overclock, you'd want to
switch to a 2x4 and a newer supply with a hefty 12V2 rating.
If you're sticking to 30%, and not cranking the hell out of
Vcore, you might still be fine. I pick the 144W number to
be completely safe, but the pins probably can handle a bit
more than that.

Damage to pins, happens over a period of time. The metal on
the pin, goes from shiny to dull colored. This is oxidation
from heat, or a metallurgy change on the plating. Once
oxidation occurs, the "resistance" when the two connectors
mate goes up, which causes the connector to get hotter,
which hastens the demise of the connector. Eventually, the
connector will be a charred mess. Just as the computer
will no longer boot, you take the side panel off and there
is the connector with a pin or two completely burned off.

I've only had that happen once here. I burned a Molex 1x4
on an ATI video card. Apparently, the cheesy chinese connector
on the power supply, wasn't gripping the pin very well. (The
current flow before the incident, was only 5 amps.) Molex
have gone downhill, since every Tom Dick & Harry has been able
to make them. At one time, there were fewer sources of those
connectors, and the quality was more consistent. If you
feel a connector is not seating properly, keep an eye on it,
as it might go like mine did.

Also, the 2x2 and the 24 pin main connectors have latches.
The latch keeps the connector seated, so it can't "walk out"
and work loose. That's another way they get burned - a connector
can work itself loose, and then the pins burn. Make sure the
latch is engaged, when installing. The Molex 1x4 doesn't need
a latch, because its insertion force and retention force are
so much higher (or at least, they used to be that way).

Paul

Could you please just clarify when I might use the 6 pin ATX .................. are you saying IF the 4 pin was not powerful enough I could use the 6 pin?

Thank You

The 6-pin connector on your power supply is almost certainly
a PCIe connector which is needed by some graphics cards. It
won't fit the motherboard EATX 8-pin power connector. As Paul
said, a single 4-pin EATX cable from the PSU is enough, so no
problem in leaving the other 4 pins unused.
PSUs either have one or two 4-pin EATX connectors, never a 6-pin.

For your temperature issue:
I have the same motherboard and suggest you go into the BIOS
and reset to defaults. The AI auto-tuning (overclocking) feature
usually pushes things too far. Overclocking the 2500 and 2600k
(unlocked) is easy compared to older CPUs - don't change the
base frequency or voltages, just keep raising the max multiplier
until it becomes unstable (or temperatures too high) and drop
back by one or two.

HTH
--
Rob