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#21
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Tony Hill wrote :
Not in my neck of the woods at least. The cheapest Athlon64 I can find is about $350 CDN (~$250 US) for the 3000+ (from a reliable vendor, some bargain-basement places sell it for a bit less). Motherboards for the Athlon64 start at about $175 CDN (~$135 US). For comparison, I can get a P4 2.8C GHz processor for $275 (~$200 US) and a motherboard for $120 (~$95 US). damn, i can get P4 for 280$ :/ , A64 for 340$ motherboards are in the same price range (I'm not talking about ECS/AsRock crap), 20% more for a significant quality leap The performance for the applications the original poster listed would be very similar between these chips as they were applications that the P4 often does quite well in (high-bandwidth use and lots of SSE2 optimizations). true for photoshop, I'm not sure about the rest. most common drives. Personally my choice would be either a Seagate or Maxtor 120GB SATA drive with 8MB of cache. Seagate should be ashamed becouse of its Write speeds, Maxtor sounds like a little machine gun For anyone reading here, don't bother putting too much value in peoples comments about hard drives. Go to www.storagereview.com, yes if your planning to buy a server harddrive I like to belive in HDTach myselfe : http://www.zacisze.zgora.pl/~bart/index2.html Again, go to Storage Review for the real-deal here. Fire up their "Performance Database" and compare this Samsung drive (they tested the 160GB model) with some drives from Maxtor, Seagate, WD and Hitachi. The Samsung drive does fine, but it pretty much middle of the pack. There's not a huge discrepancy between the various companies. SamSung: SpinPoint 120 GB SP1203N (7200) ATA/133 (8MB cache) http://www.zacisze.zgora.pl/~bart/images/sam_hdtach.jpg SeaGate: Barracuda 120 GB ST3120022A (7200) ATA/100 (2MB cache) http://www.zacisze.zgora.pl/~bart/images/sea_hdtach.jpg Maxtor DiamondMax +9 120 GB (8MB) 6Y120P0 ATA/133 http://www.zacisze.zgora.pl/~bart/im...x1_hdtach2.jpg and its ~10-20% more expensive, wooohoo round cables - gotta have them From the prices I see it's only an extra $10-$15 for SATA over ATA133 drives WD Caviar 120GB, 7200, ATA/100 (WD1200JB) 8MB cache 116$ WD Caviar 120GB, 7200, SerialATA (WD1200JD) 8MB cache 140$ Europe prices sucks I guess. which is less than I would pay for round cables. Agreed with round cable price. I sell computer cables/plugs/other little useless computer objects myself and know how hilarious prices can be (for example $40 for a 1 meter long shielded round ATA133, not to mention SCSI and Cisco cables ..shrug) The AthlonXP 3200 will be slower than an P4 2.8C for most of the applications listed by the original poster. The Athlon64 3200+ is a fair bit more expensive, probably an extra $200 - $300 US on the whole system price. Considering the entire system would work out to about $700 US for the P4, an extra $200-$300 is a lot. hmmmm : http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20...lon_xp-15.html there is no P4 2.8C in the comparison, but it should place somewhere between XP 2700 and 3000 Plus, as I mentioned, I'm not satisfied with the current crop of motherboards, almost all are based on VIA chipsets I've used too many VIA chipsets in the past with their drivers that just never quite work right, even when there are no obvious problems that can be pinpointed. See that recent thread titled "Why does everyone hate VIA", or words to that effect, for most info. and I'm affraid of flights Pozdrawiam. -- RusH // http://kiti.pulse.pdi.net/qv30/ Like ninjas, true hackers are shrouded in secrecy and mystery. You may never know -- UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE. |
#22
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George Macdonald wrote:
Oh and the Maxtor diags don't work with nVidia chipsets - Damn!!!!!!!!!! Thats why things weren't working on my brother's pc.!! -- Nadeem M Nayeck [ m n n a y e c k @ i n t n e t . m u ] ______ ______ . .:_\_ . \\_ . \_::. . .::./ ./ // ./__/.:::. . Registered LU #290695 :______/____ _:. - Where Tahoma looks like sprayed ****... . \/ . |
#23
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On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 04:10:42 GMT, gaffo wrote:
one of the k-6's had a problem with windoze-98First Edition.................something to due with the timing. The chip ran too fast for windoze to work correctly. M$ offered a patch to fix it within a few weeks. This was YEARS ago and I've forgotten all the details. It wasn't one of the K-6. It was basically any Cyrix or K6 above 350Mhz. They ran certain instructions twice as fast as the equivalent Pentium 2 and caused the timing loop M$ used to finish in effectively 0 seconds. So X/0 sec = error. It happened with a P2/3 starting at around 700Mhz. One of the method for getting around it was to downclock the processor, apply the patch and clock back up. -- L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work. If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript. If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too. But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code |
#24
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#25
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Keith R. Williams wrote:
Close. The Pentium had a two-cycle NOP instruction. AMD thought this wasteful so cut both cycles out (no need to dispatch a NOP, right? ;-). Oops, timing loops relying on NOP broke. I thought it was a quicker `loop` instruction vs `dec ecx / jnz` -- Robert |
#26
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On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:55:53 -0500, Keith R. Williams
wrote: Close. The Pentium had a two-cycle NOP instruction. AMD thought this wasteful so cut both cycles out (no need to dispatch a NOP, right? ;-). Oops, timing loops relying on NOP broke. Hmm, why would anybody use NOP for a timing loop?? I mean, as a noob programmer back in high school (or the equivalent of age 15), I used these things too. Except in my loops generally were a couple of calculations typically used in the program. Largely because an empty loop tend to finish in 0 time AFAIK :PpPp -- L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work. If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript. If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too. But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code |
#27
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On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 05:00:36 +0000 (UTC), RusH
wrote: Tony Hill wrote : For anyone reading here, don't bother putting too much value in peoples comments about hard drives. Go to www.storagereview.com, yes if your planning to buy a server harddrive I like to belive in HDTach myselfe : http://www.zacisze.zgora.pl/~bart/index2.html The guys are Storage Review REALLY know what the hell they are talking about, MUCH more so than any other review I've seen. They have done extensive testing of drives for desktop and server use, and they have also done extensive testing of drive benchmarking utilities. One of the things they've come up with (complete with extensive evidence) is that sequential read speed (what HDTach measures) is NOT the most important factor in application performance. While it does factor it, there are MANY other factors that affect performance as well. They do still list sequential read speed (using Winbench, which produces very similar results to HDTach), but they also do more extensive testing. FWIW here is their explanation of what they've found to influence performance of hard drives: http://storagereview.com/guide2000/r...erf/index.html From the prices I see it's only an extra $10-$15 for SATA over ATA133 drives WD Caviar 120GB, 7200, ATA/100 (WD1200JB) 8MB cache 116$ WD Caviar 120GB, 7200, SerialATA (WD1200JD) 8MB cache 140$ Europe prices sucks I guess. Could be, I'm seeing the WD 120GB ATA100 8MB for $131 Canadian (~$100US) and the WD1200JD 120GB SATA 8MB for $152 (~$115 US). For the Seagate 120MB/8MB cache the difference is $17 CDN (~$13 US), while for Maxtor the difference is $12 CDN (~$8 US). The AthlonXP 3200 will be slower than an P4 2.8C for most of the applications listed by the original poster. The Athlon64 3200+ is a fair bit more expensive, probably an extra $200 - $300 US on the whole system price. Considering the entire system would work out to about $700 US for the P4, an extra $200-$300 is a lot. hmmmm : http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20...lon_xp-15.html there is no P4 2.8C in the comparison, but it should place somewhere between XP 2700 and 3000 Check the latest round of Prescott tests, most of them have a 2.8C GHz P4 (Northwood) processor and AthlonXP 3200+ thrown into the mix alongside the new Prescott P4s. In particular, look at the applications that the original poster asked about, ie Photoshop, Illustrator, video editing and encoding. These are all areas that the P4 tends to do well in, and while the AthlonXP is a great chip, for the specific applications mentioned by the original poster, the P4 is a bit better. ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
#28
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On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:33:09 GMT, Robert Redelmeier
wrote: Keith R. Williams wrote: Close. The Pentium had a two-cycle NOP instruction. AMD thought this wasteful so cut both cycles out (no need to dispatch a NOP, right? ;-). Oops, timing loops relying on NOP broke. I thought it was a quicker `loop` instruction vs `dec ecx / jnz` My memory (admittedly a bit fuzzy here) is that Cyrix had the really fast NOP while AMD has the fast 'loop' instructions. Either way, both ended up breaking some brain-dead timing loops. This one really can't be blamed on AMD or Cyrix though, since I've seen DOZENS of brain-dead timing loops break on all sorts of processors, including Intel chips. Sufficient stupid software can cause problems with even the best hardware. ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
#29
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On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 04:10:42 GMT, gaffo wrote:
one of the k-6's had a problem with windoze-98First Edition.................something to due with the timing. The chip ran too fast for windoze to work correctly. M$ offered a patch to fix it within a few weeks. This was YEARS ago and I've forgotten all the details. It was Win95, and it affected K6-2 chips that were clocked to 333MHz or more (overclocked K6 chips could have similar problems as well, though not many K6s overclocked very well). The problem was a simple brain-dead timing loop that eventually broke on all processors, it just affected the K6-2 first because the loop ran a lot faster on those processors than on Intel processors. ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
#30
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