Dead Gateway Essential 633C

Hello,

need some troubleshooting advice here.

Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
MB is MS-6312 VER:1
64MB SDRAM

Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
because I have no Schematics or test equipment
other than a DMM.

Symptoms:
push power switch amber light comes on.
shouldn't that light be green ???
no video...Video screen blank.
No signs of life from the floppy drive.
No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
stays like that forever.
Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.

+12 volts is +11.82
+5 volts is +5.1

cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.

Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running


might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???

I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
beep code.

I suspect either there is no timing and control
getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
of problem before.

One other thing of interest.
Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would not start up.

I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.

In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
to figure out.


lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
what that is for.


geoff

MicroStar motherboards like the MS-6312 have widely achieved a sorry reputation
for poor quality. To be specific, many of them bite the dust due to el cheapo
blown capacitors. The capacitors begin to leak their di-electric content, and
sometimes explode. Open up the chassis and examine the cylindrical capacitors
for either leakage or bulging. Examine the motherboard for foreign substances
on the surface, near the capacitors.

Oh, heck. Just replace the stupid motherboard. Odds are maybe 99-1 that one or
more capacitors have failed... Ben Myers

On Wed, 4 May 2005 18:05:53 -0700, "Geoff" wrote:


Hello,

need some troubleshooting advice here.

Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
MB is MS-6312 VER:1
64MB SDRAM

Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
because I have no Schematics or test equipment
other than a DMM.

Symptoms:
push power switch amber light comes on.
shouldn't that light be green ???
no video...Video screen blank.
No signs of life from the floppy drive.
No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
stays like that forever.
Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.

+12 volts is +11.82
+5 volts is +5.1

cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.

Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running


might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???

I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
beep code.

I suspect either there is no timing and control
getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
of problem before.

One other thing of interest.
Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would not start up.

I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.

In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
to figure out.


lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
what that is for.


geoff

LOL...if I had a oscilloscope and an octopus (curve tracer)
to analyze with I could test in circuit to find any
bad capacitors but i changed out all the bad caps I could find
which were 9 of them and it did not make any difference.
Out of those 9 suspected capacitors only one tested bad it was
only 25% of its rated value.
Replacing the motherboard will be the very last thing I try
because there is also the CPU to worry about.
I can say one thing for sure...Gateway will not get
anymore business from me or mine because of this short
lived product they built and the fact they have so much
darn security they are hard to deal with.
It is obvious to me Gateway is afraid of the General
Public and because of this should not be in business.

Yes I am aware of the bad capacitors...maybe I should try changing out
a few more of them.


geoff


ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message ...
MicroStar motherboards like the MS-6312 have widely achieved a sorry reputation
for poor quality. To be specific, many of them bite the dust due to el cheapo
blown capacitors. The capacitors begin to leak their di-electric content, and
sometimes explode. Open up the chassis and examine the cylindrical capacitors
for either leakage or bulging. Examine the motherboard for foreign substances
on the surface, near the capacitors.

Oh, heck. Just replace the stupid motherboard. Odds are maybe 99-1 that one or
more capacitors have failed... Ben Myers

On Wed, 4 May 2005 18:05:53 -0700, "Geoff" wrote:


Hello,

need some troubleshooting advice here.

Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
MB is MS-6312 VER:1
64MB SDRAM

Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
because I have no Schematics or test equipment
other than a DMM.

Symptoms:
push power switch amber light comes on.
shouldn't that light be green ???
no video...Video screen blank.
No signs of life from the floppy drive.
No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
stays like that forever.
Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.

+12 volts is +11.82
+5 volts is +5.1

cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.

Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running


might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???

I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
beep code.

I suspect either there is no timing and control
getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
of problem before.

One other thing of interest.
Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would not start up.

I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.

In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
to figure out.


lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
what that is for.


geoff

LOL...if I had a oscilloscope and an octopus (curve tracer)
to analyze with I could test in circuit to find any
bad capacitors but i changed out all the bad caps I could find
which were 9 of them and it did not make any difference.
Out of those 9 suspected capacitors only one tested bad it was
only 25% of its rated value.
Replacing the motherboard will be the very last thing I try
because there is also the CPU to worry about.
I can say one thing for sure...Gateway will not get
anymore business from me or mine because of this short
lived product they built and the fact they have so much
darn security they are hard to deal with.
It is obvious to me Gateway is afraid of the General
Public and because of this should not be in business.

Yes I am aware of the bad capacitors...maybe I should try changing out
a few more of them.


geoff



ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message ...
MicroStar motherboards like the MS-6312 have widely achieved a sorry reputation
for poor quality. To be specific, many of them bite the dust due to el cheapo
blown capacitors. The capacitors begin to leak their di-electric content, and
sometimes explode. Open up the chassis and examine the cylindrical capacitors
for either leakage or bulging. Examine the motherboard for foreign substances
on the surface, near the capacitors.

Oh, heck. Just replace the stupid motherboard. Odds are maybe 99-1 that one or
more capacitors have failed... Ben Myers

On Wed, 4 May 2005 18:05:53 -0700, "Geoff" wrote:


Hello,

need some troubleshooting advice here.

Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
MB is MS-6312 VER:1
64MB SDRAM

Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
because I have no Schematics or test equipment
other than a DMM.

Symptoms:
push power switch amber light comes on.
shouldn't that light be green ???
no video...Video screen blank.
No signs of life from the floppy drive.
No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
stays like that forever.
Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.

+12 volts is +11.82
+5 volts is +5.1

cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.

Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running


might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???

I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
beep code.

I suspect either there is no timing and control
getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
of problem before.

One other thing of interest.
Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would not start up.

I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.

In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
to figure out.


lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
what that is for.


geoff

Hello,

Just found out the power supply looks good.
the main indicator to the problem is that
both the green power light and the amber
light not described in the users manual
is on at the very same time.

Maybe someone can tell me what the amber light represents ??

Both lights on at the very same time would mean something
to me if I could get my hands on the schematics for this
motherboard. Gateway MS-6312 Ver:1.

I am surprised at the lack of responses.
Are there no technical people out there
doing component level troubleshooting ?

Is everything black boxed today which really
lets you learn nothing about anything.

geoff


"Geoff" wrote in message ...

Hello,

need some troubleshooting advice here.

Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
MB is MS-6312 VER:1
64MB SDRAM

Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
because I have no Schematics or test equipment
other than a DMM.

Symptoms:
push power switch amber light comes on.
shouldn't that light be green ???
no video...Video screen blank.
No signs of life from the floppy drive.
No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
stays like that forever.
Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.

+12 volts is +11.82
+5 volts is +5.1

cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.

Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running


might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???

I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
beep code.

I suspect either there is no timing and control
getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
of problem before.

One other thing of interest.
Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would not start up.

I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.

In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
to figure out.


lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
what that is for.


geoff

"Geoff" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Just found out the power supply looks good.
the main indicator to the problem is that
both the green power light and the amber
light not described in the users manual
is on at the very same time.

Maybe someone can tell me what the amber light represents ??

Both lights on at the very same time would mean something
to me if I could get my hands on the schematics for this
motherboard. Gateway MS-6312 Ver:1.

I am surprised at the lack of responses.
Are there no technical people out there
doing component level troubleshooting ?

Is everything black boxed today which really
lets you learn nothing about anything.

geoff


"Geoff" wrote in message
...

Hello,

need some troubleshooting advice here.

Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
MB is MS-6312 VER:1
64MB SDRAM

Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
because I have no Schematics or test equipment
other than a DMM.

Symptoms:
push power switch amber light comes on.
shouldn't that light be green ???
no video...Video screen blank.
No signs of life from the floppy drive.
No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
stays like that forever.
Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.

+12 volts is +11.82
+5 volts is +5.1

cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.

Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running


might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???

I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
beep code.

I suspect either there is no timing and control
getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
of problem before.

One other thing of interest.
Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would
not start up.

I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.

In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
to figure out.


lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
what that is for.


geoff

Geoff,

Is this your mobo:
http://support.gateway.com/s/MOTHERB...51226701.shtml

While Googling, I found many results that mentioned bad caps. Could this be
the problem?

HTH,

Louie
Chiefland, FL, USA

Is this your mobo:
http://support.gateway.com/s/MOTHERB...51226701.shtml

While Googling, I found many results that mentioned bad caps. Could this
be
the problem?

HTH,

Louie
Chiefland, FL, USA



Dang, next time I'll read the whole thread, as I see you've already replaced
bad caps. Sorry.

Louie

On the whole these days, the personal computer industry does not do board level
repair. It is far more cost effective to replace the entire board with either
the same model or one which is physically compatible and uses the same chipsets.
The exceptions are those rare cases where some software is absolutely locked
into a hardware implementation and spare boards are not available. The U.S.
government regularly pees away sums of money on board repairs.

I'll stick by my original recommendation: Replace the board. If the CPU is
also bad, no problem. 633MHz and faster compatible Celeron CPUs are inexpensive
lately.

Gateway is not the only company which had its butt scalded by poor quality
MicroStar motherboards. IBM had a run of problems with MicroStar boards, as did
some others. Good luck getting a schematic for the MS-6312. I do not know of
any motherboard manufacturer which makes board schematics available outside its
own company.

I have been doing repairs, upgrades, and refurbs of personal computers for over
10 years now. I have yet to learn to use an oscilliscope. I don't need to. I
have yet to solder something to a board to fix it. I don't need to. My time is
spent 1000% more effectively by isolating the failed hardware and replacing it.
Or maybe even scrapping the whole box, and selling a replacement. Keep in mind
the very low prices of computers these days. Today's NY Times has a Dell ad for
a 2+GHz Dimension 3000 with 15" flat panel monitor and cheap Dell inkjet printer
for $399 including shipping. At those prices, component level board repairs are
interesting only as intellectual engineering challenges... Ben Myers

On Thu, 5 May 2005 00:58:31 -0700, "Geoff" wrote:

Hello,

Just found out the power supply looks good.
the main indicator to the problem is that
both the green power light and the amber
light not described in the users manual
is on at the very same time.

Maybe someone can tell me what the amber light represents ??

Both lights on at the very same time would mean something
to me if I could get my hands on the schematics for this
motherboard. Gateway MS-6312 Ver:1.

I am surprised at the lack of responses.
Are there no technical people out there
doing component level troubleshooting ?

Is everything black boxed today which really
lets you learn nothing about anything.

geoff


"Geoff" wrote in message ...

Hello,

need some troubleshooting advice here.

Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
MB is MS-6312 VER:1
64MB SDRAM

Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
because I have no Schematics or test equipment
other than a DMM.

Symptoms:
push power switch amber light comes on.
shouldn't that light be green ???
no video...Video screen blank.
No signs of life from the floppy drive.
No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
stays like that forever.
Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.

+12 volts is +11.82
+5 volts is +5.1

cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.

Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running


might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???

I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
beep code.

I suspect either there is no timing and control
getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
of problem before.

One other thing of interest.
Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would not start up.

I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.

In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
to figure out.


lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
what that is for.


geoff

Are you sure the PSU is good? I have replaced many of those power supplies
because of the issue with the power indicator you describe. Now, sometimes
it was both the MBD and PSU that had to be replaced for that issue. You can
get a replacement board at www.skyline-eng.com for $99. I don't know if I
would replace it though. Besides the capacitor issue, those boards had many
other problems, bad modems, failed video, easily broken USB ports.

"Geoff" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Just found out the power supply looks good.
the main indicator to the problem is that
both the green power light and the amber
light not described in the users manual
is on at the very same time.

Maybe someone can tell me what the amber light represents ??

Both lights on at the very same time would mean something
to me if I could get my hands on the schematics for this
motherboard. Gateway MS-6312 Ver:1.

I am surprised at the lack of responses.
Are there no technical people out there
doing component level troubleshooting ?

Is everything black boxed today which really
lets you learn nothing about anything.

geoff


"Geoff" wrote in message
...

Hello,

need some troubleshooting advice here.

Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
MB is MS-6312 VER:1
64MB SDRAM

Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
because I have no Schematics or test equipment
other than a DMM.

Symptoms:
push power switch amber light comes on.
shouldn't that light be green ???
no video...Video screen blank.
No signs of life from the floppy drive.
No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
stays like that forever.
Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.

+12 volts is +11.82
+5 volts is +5.1

cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.

Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running


might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???

I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
beep code.

I suspect either there is no timing and control
getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
of problem before.

One other thing of interest.
Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would
not start up.

I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.

In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
to figure out.


lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
what that is for.


geoff

What happened to the days that IBM made its own equipment.
It seems there really is no more OEMs they are all just middlemen.
There is badness in blackboxing everything. There might be stuff
going on in the hardware we might like to know about but will not
because we only look at the surficial facades. I think the blackboxing
is what the security people want us to do to keep us in the dark
about science and technology. To make sure we do not modify things
for our own desires. They make nuclear weapons this way so they can
not be misused inconsistant with the desires of the makers.
I see the nuclear industry mentality governing our lives today and I really do not like it.
Compartmentizing and blackboxing everything.





ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message ...
On the whole these days, the personal computer industry does not do board level
repair. It is far more cost effective to replace the entire board with either
the same model or one which is physically compatible and uses the same chipsets.
The exceptions are those rare cases where some software is absolutely locked
into a hardware implementation and spare boards are not available. The U.S.
government regularly pees away sums of money on board repairs.

I'll stick by my original recommendation: Replace the board. If the CPU is
also bad, no problem. 633MHz and faster compatible Celeron CPUs are inexpensive
lately.

Gateway is not the only company which had its butt scalded by poor quality
MicroStar motherboards. IBM had a run of problems with MicroStar boards, as did
some others. Good luck getting a schematic for the MS-6312. I do not know of
any motherboard manufacturer which makes board schematics available outside its
own company.

I have been doing repairs, upgrades, and refurbs of personal computers for over
10 years now. I have yet to learn to use an oscilliscope. I don't need to. I
have yet to solder something to a board to fix it. I don't need to. My time is
spent 1000% more effectively by isolating the failed hardware and replacing it.
Or maybe even scrapping the whole box, and selling a replacement. Keep in mind
the very low prices of computers these days. Today's NY Times has a Dell ad for
a 2+GHz Dimension 3000 with 15" flat panel monitor and cheap Dell inkjet printer
for $399 including shipping. At those prices, component level board repairs are
interesting only as intellectual engineering challenges... Ben Myers

On Thu, 5 May 2005 00:58:31 -0700, "Geoff" wrote:

Hello,

Just found out the power supply looks good.
the main indicator to the problem is that
both the green power light and the amber
light not described in the users manual
is on at the very same time.

Maybe someone can tell me what the amber light represents ??

Both lights on at the very same time would mean something
to me if I could get my hands on the schematics for this
motherboard. Gateway MS-6312 Ver:1.

I am surprised at the lack of responses.
Are there no technical people out there
doing component level troubleshooting ?

Is everything black boxed today which really
lets you learn nothing about anything.

geoff


"Geoff" wrote in message ...

Hello,

need some troubleshooting advice here.

Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
MB is MS-6312 VER:1
64MB SDRAM

Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
because I have no Schematics or test equipment
other than a DMM.

Symptoms:
push power switch amber light comes on.
shouldn't that light be green ???
no video...Video screen blank.
No signs of life from the floppy drive.
No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
stays like that forever.
Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.

+12 volts is +11.82
+5 volts is +5.1

cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.

Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running


might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???

I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
beep code.

I suspect either there is no timing and control
getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
of problem before.

One other thing of interest.
Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would not start up.

I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.

In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
to figure out.


lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
what that is for.


geoff