Several issues in one

I am about ready to pull my hair out and chuck the computer out the
window. I'm having several issued with my computer, and am just
about out of patience. Were I to have the spare cash lying around, I
would just buy a new one.

I have a Gateway E500. The E500 is currently sitting in a case for a
Gateway GP5-233, due to power supply issues. My father transferred
everything for me to the new case, as he did not have a power supply
that would fit in the old case.

The case is not my issue. I have two cd rom drives, the top being a
CD-RW, and the bottom just your run of the mill CD-Rom. The stupid
computer is for some reason not recognizing it within Windows
(running XP). Either of the rom drives. It recognizes the hard
drive and the floppy. Both pieces are installed fully, and within
the BIOS I have it enabled to notify me if no cd rom is detected.

Furthermore, I know that it works, as for some stupid reason my
computer refuses to load windows without having my operating system
disc in the primary cd rom drive (the CD-RW). A few days ago the
system was recognizing both drives, only it was classifying the
bottom drive as a DVD drive.

And if only to add to my frustrations, I have two hard drives in the
computer. Both are 40g. The second one I got from my friend, who
had purchased a new hard drive. There's an error on it, somewhere.
But now the computer is not even recognizing that it exists. Well
Windows isn't anyhow.

I just want to get this damn thing to work. I want both hard drives,
and my cd rom drives to work. Is it too much to ask?

If anyone can offer any kind of help, advice, anything short of
telling me to buy a shotgun and shoot it, I would most appreciate it.

Well clearly this is a junker. Knowing this stuff well,
I suspect the following to start:

- both 40 gigs have bad spots on the drives, and the
OS is corrupt.
- the straight CD rom is too old for XP, and the the
cdrom BIOS is totally out of date. I also suspect
it is flakey and crashes after about 10 minutes.
- the CDRW is probably the C-drive, because who
ever tried to install XP was not watching closely,
and the hard drives set up as E: and F:
- I'm also guessing that XP never finished its install,
and may be trying to do so .. thus the need to put
the install cd in the cdrw.

If you like this kind of self-abuse, try the following:

- Toss the cd-drive. It is too old.
- Try to run chkdsk on the hard drives. I doubt either
will pass, but try anyway. If you simply cannot, toss
both hard drives, and beg a new drive from Pops.
- Install XP, and carefully note that the hard drive is
the C-drive.
- If XP installs ... well ... put the thing in the paper, and
try to find a moron who just wants email. They are
out there, and you might get $200 for it. Use that
to convince Pops to buy you a real computer .. to
use for school .. and maybe a few games :-)

johns

I appreciate you actually responding, which is more than anyone else
has done, for whatever reason, but remove the damn stick from your
ass.

There is no need to talk down to me, and carry that tone. I asked for
help. That's the purpose of this site, to help others with the
various problems that crop up with computers, and computer related
technology.

"playstation60" wrote in message
m...
I appreciate you actually responding, which is more than anyone else
has done, for whatever reason, but remove the damn stick from your
ass.

There is no need to talk down to me, and carry that tone. I asked for
help. That's the purpose of this site, to help others with the
various problems that crop up with computers, and computer related
technology.

You're an @sswipe, dude. Johns wasn't "talking down" to you... and what
"tone" are you talking about? Seems to me that you're the one with the stick
up your ass. After this post, I doubt you'll be getting much help from
anyone in this group.

It strikes me as kind of ironic that the two people beyond myself that
have posted on this topic have both been nothing more than guests.
Ponder the meanings of that.

I felt, and still feel that "Johns" was speaking from an
assumed position of superiority. He belittled my computer "well
obviously this is a junker", "Put the thing in the paper,
and try to find a moron who just wants email. They are out there, and
you might get $200 for it. Use that to convince Pops to buy you a
real computer", practically told me to throw the thing out and
start fresh.

This is not what I wanted in way of help. The entire tone of the
posts was condescending. The purpose of this forum is to help
people, not make them feel like crap because their computer is older
or because their computer is causing problems, whether self induced
due to negligence or not.

If this is the kind of "help" that this site offers, I don't
want it.

"playstation60" wrote in message
...
It strikes me as kind of ironic that the two people beyond myself that
have posted on this topic have both been nothing more than guests.
Ponder the meanings of that.

I felt, and still feel that "Johns" was speaking from an
assumed position of superiority. He belittled my computer "well
obviously this is a junker", "Put the thing in the paper,
and try to find a moron who just wants email. They are out there, and
you might get $200 for it. Use that to convince Pops to buy you a
real computer", practically told me to throw the thing out and
start fresh.

This is not what I wanted in way of help. The entire tone of the
posts was condescending. The purpose of this forum is to help
people, not make them feel like crap because their computer is older
or because their computer is causing problems, whether self induced
due to negligence or not.

If this is the kind of "help" that this site offers, I don't
want it.


OK, now you're just being petulant, and I still think that you are
misunderstanding Johns' motives. sigh At any rate, let's start over.

The very first thing I would do is to replace both IDE cables (the flat
ribbon cables connecting your optical drives and hard disks to the
motherboard). You'd be amazed at how often weird drive problems such as
those you're experiencing go away. And think about it... the guts of your
(admittedly old) system were transplanted into a new case, so the existing
cables could very well have been hosed. Finally, even if new cables don't
fix the problems, at least you've ruled out marginal cables and can go
forward knowing that you have fresh new cables to start with.

The next thing is to disconnect the hard disk that your friend gave to you.
A dying hard disk can cause all of the symptoms that you've described. If
your system boots up and all of your other drives are recognized, then
you've found the culprit. At that point, you'd need to buy another hard disk
drive or make do with 40GB. (Note: You could try downloading the disk
utility from that drive manufacturer's site--for example, Data Lifeguard
Tool from Western Digital's site or MaxBlast from Maxtor's site--and run it
to see if it can successfully reinitialize the bad drive for you.)

It's also possible that the old CD-ROM drive is the problem. Try
disconnecting that, rebooting, and then seeing if everything else works.
Fortunately, a new optical drive is cheap, and that's an easy fix. I would
get a DVD-ROM drive or a DVD-ROM/CD-RW combo drive to replace the bad drive.
The prices have fallen through the floor on all optical dirves, even
DVD+/-RW drives, so you'll have to decide what you want to do in that case.

Finally, it could very well be that the power supply in this case is also
failing. It may not be able to power two optical drives and two hard disks
in addition to everything else in your system. After all, the power supply
is old, too. Fortunately, you can get a new one cheap.

For any parts that you may need to replace, check www.newegg.com and
www.pricewatch.com. For your cables, try he
www.trianglecables.com/idecab33.html
Whatever you do, don't pay retail prices for any of these items unless
there's a huge sale going on at your local superstore of office supply
place. It's just not necessary.

While I was perhaps a bit strong in my response, I don't know if I
would go so far as to say I was acting childish, in any manner. I
did not like how Johns responded. The entire feel of the post was
unhelpful.

Your second post, however, was the exact opposite. For that, thank
you. I will be looking into your advice in more depth when I get
home from work tonight.

Again, thank you, for making a post that actually implied your desire
to help.

In article , lid
(playstation60) wrote:

I am about ready to pull my hair out and chuck the computer out the
window. *I'm having several issued with my computer, and am just
about out of patience. *Were I to have the spare cash lying around, I
would just buy a new one.

I have a Gateway E500. *The E500 is currently sitting in a case for a
Gateway GP5-233, due to power supply issues. *My father transferred
everything for me to the new case, as he did not have a power supply
that would fit in the old case. *

The case is not my issue. *I have two cd rom drives, the top being a
CD-RW, and the bottom just your run of the mill CD-Rom. *The stupid
computer is for some reason not recognizing it within Windows
(running XP). *Either of the rom drives. *It recognizes the hard
drive and the floppy. *Both pieces are installed fully, and within
the BIOS I have it enabled to notify me if no cd rom is detected.

Furthermore, I know that it works, as for some stupid reason my
computer refuses to load windows without having my operating system
disc in the primary cd rom drive (the CD-RW). *A few days ago the
system was recognizing both drives, only it was classifying the
bottom drive as a DVD drive. *

And if only to add to my frustrations, I have two hard drives in the
computer. *Both are 40g. *The second one I got from my friend, who
had purchased a new hard drive. *There's an error on it, somewhere.
But now the computer is not even recognizing that it exists. *Well
Windows isn't anyhow. *

I just want to get this damn thing to work. *I want both hard drives,
and my cd rom drives to work. *Is it too much to ask?

If anyone can offer any kind of help, advice, anything short of
telling me to buy a shotgun and shoot it, I would most appreciate it.

On the optical drives, it could be the way they are jumpered.
The first question would be, whether your father preserved the
position of the drives on the IDE cable, when the drives were
moved.

In terms of cables, the best cables for the job are the ones with
80 wires. The wires are a little thinner looking than the older
40 wire cable, and every second wire is a ground connection. The
ground wires improve the quality of signals, and allow drives
with higher maximum data rates, to work at those faster rates.

This is a table suitable for use with an 80 wire cable. The
Cable Select (CS) jumper position, is supported on 80 wire
cables, but not on 40 wire cables. Cable Select is popular in
prebuilt computers, because the assemblers can work faster.
If you are having problems, I'd stick with Master and Slave
style jumpering, to leave nothing to chance.

Computer ------------------Connector----Connector
End

--- drive
Jumper as -- "Master" or
"Master only
================================================== ===========
drive drive
Jumper as -- "Master" "Slave" or
"Slave" "Master" or
"CS" "CS"
================================================== ===========

Don't use this config... drive ---
Bad signal quality...
================================================== ===========

You can test a single optical drive, by using the first line
of the table. Use the connector on the end of the cable and
connect it to the drive. The middle connector remains blank,
and by doing that, a second drive cannot interfere with the
first drive. Then you can attempt to boot your computer,
assuming that the BIOS is set up correctly when the optical
drive is added to the computer. (The boot order in some poorly
designed BIOS, has to be checked every time that drives are
added or removed from the computer. Otherwise the computer
could attempt to boot from the wrong drive, giving you
confusing symptoms.)

If the optical drive you just added works, shut down the
computer, remove that optical drive from the end of the
cable, and connect the second optical drive. Set it to
Master and plug the drive onto the end of the cable.
Again, boot the computer and try to test out that drive.

If both drives work, your third test, is to try the two
drives. You could use the middle line in the second
entry in the table. The drive on the middle connector
of the cable becomes "Slave", while the drive on the
end of the cable is "Master". Try booting again, and
see if both drives are seen in the BIOS screen that
lists all the drives. The "Auto" detect mode in the BIOS
is the best one to use, and should find the drives OK.

The third entry in the table is a non-recommended
configuration. Placing a drive on the middle connector
and no drive on the end connector, gives bad signal
quality, and I don't actually know how fast the I/O
rate could run without corrupting the data sent to
the drive. In any case, as long as you fill the end
connector first on the cable, you should be in good
shape.

For the hard drive with the bad spot on it, using a
drive like that is all a matter of trust. How much
is your data worth to you ? Is any data on that
drive, backed up on a second drive ? If you operate
your computer without a scheme for backing up data,
then using a damaged drive is real risky. You never
know when a minor problem on the drive, will become
a major one. I treat hard drives like toilet paper,
and at the first sign of trouble -- flush...

You could ask your dad, whether he set up the
jumpers correctly, for the way he stuck the drives
in the machine, and see if he thought about it.

In terms of the help we can give you in a USENET
news group, we can only give advice on swapping
stuff out and buying new components. Repairing
hard drives (like going inside the HDA) is out
of the question, as hard drives are constructed in
"clean rooms", which are dust free. The dust in
a normal household would kill the drive in short
order, as the dust particles are many times
larger than the distance between the heads and the
platters.

For optical drives, about the only recommended maintenance
is the use of a cleaning disk. But before wasting
time or money on something like that, you'd at least want
to see the optical drive recognized in the BIOS. If
the brand name is not showing up in the BIOS screen,
then the controller on the optical drive is having
problems, and all the cleaning disks in the world won't
fix that. $50 will buy you a very nice drive, as a
replacement, and I think the last couple I bought
were $20 at my local computer store (just CDROMs but
nice ones).

In terms of hard drive strategies, I recommend only
using one hard drive regularly in the computer. That is
your boot drive, and also holds your programs and
data. Buy a second drive as a place to store a backup
copy of the data. The second drive can sit in the
middle position of the cable, be jumpered as slave,
and be disconnected from the cable and from drive
power when not in use. Remember to make backup copies
at some regular interval, to the "cold standby" disk,
and then in the future, when your main drive dies, you
won't have lost too much stuff (only the stuff since
the last backup). You can get a fancy tray, to allow
simple plug in and removal of the second drive, and
that is a more convenient way to manage the connecting
and disconnecting of your "backup" drive. A drive
imaging program that makes an exact copy of the
drive, is an easy way to make the backup, and the
backup drive should be the same size or slightly larger
than the drive being backed up.

Paul

In article ,
(Paul) wrote:

In article , lid
(playstation60) wrote:

I am about ready to pull my hair out and chuck the computer out the
window. *I'm having several issued with my computer, and am just
about out of patience. *Were I to have the spare cash lying around, I
would just buy a new one.

I have a Gateway E500. *The E500 is currently sitting in a case for a
Gateway GP5-233, due to power supply issues. *My father transferred
everything for me to the new case, as he did not have a power supply
that would fit in the old case. *

The case is not my issue. *I have two cd rom drives, the top being a
CD-RW, and the bottom just your run of the mill CD-Rom. *The stupid
computer is for some reason not recognizing it within Windows
(running XP). *Either of the rom drives. *It recognizes the hard
drive and the floppy. *Both pieces are installed fully, and within
the BIOS I have it enabled to notify me if no cd rom is detected.

Furthermore, I know that it works, as for some stupid reason my
computer refuses to load windows without having my operating system
disc in the primary cd rom drive (the CD-RW). *A few days ago the
system was recognizing both drives, only it was classifying the
bottom drive as a DVD drive. *

And if only to add to my frustrations, I have two hard drives in the
computer. *Both are 40g. *The second one I got from my friend, who
had purchased a new hard drive. *There's an error on it, somewhere.
But now the computer is not even recognizing that it exists. *Well
Windows isn't anyhow. *

I just want to get this damn thing to work. *I want both hard drives,
and my cd rom drives to work. *Is it too much to ask?

If anyone can offer any kind of help, advice, anything short of
telling me to buy a shotgun and shoot it, I would most appreciate it.


For more info on drives, this site has lots of info and is
good reading.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf.htm

Paul

"Hackworth" wrote in message
...

Finally, it could very well be that the power supply in this case is also
failing. It may not be able to power two optical drives and two hard disks
in addition to everything else in your system. After all, the power supply
is old, too. Fortunately, you can get a new one cheap.

This was my first thought. I looked at this, but couldn't find exact specs
for either system (read case/ power supply.) I'm guessing most Gateway
systems of that age have PSUs rated for something like 150watts. That's not
enough to power two optical drives and two hard drives. You'd really be
asking a lot for this to happen, especially with the age of the things.

I'd get a new PSU. Then I'd start with just the barest essentials. I'd
ditch the CD-ROM entirely (meaning into the trash), but keep the RW drive.
Then I'd do a fresh windows install using the known good HD. I'd add the
other drive upon sucess with that.

I'd be really reluctant to spend money on the project. I mean, if he's
going to buy a new PSU (and do a fresh windows install) he might as well
drop change for a cheapy MB/CPU combo too. He apparently has an XP disc.

I don't know. That's my 2 cents.

~e.