Which overclock is better? (NF7-S v2.0)

Thanks for the answers! More questions below.. ;-)

"QED, eh ?" wrote in message
...

"Robert" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I've just overclocked my new ABit NF-S v2.0 using XP 2400+ and 2x256MB
TwinMOS PC3200. Using only my standard 300W PSU and Alpha PAL 8045 /
Papst
8412 NGML, I've found the following speeds to be the highest (stable).
Which
should I choose:

1. 200x11.5 = 2300 MHz , min Vcore=1.8v
2. 166x14 = 2333 MHz, min Vcore= 1.85v

Slightly higher performance with the second option (naturally). I
suppose
I
should keep the 166 or 200 Mhz FSBs to operate in sync mode, right?


I still don't get this, you run your DIMMs at 224 FSB, that should equal 448
MHz DIMM speed, your PC3700 is 466 MHz, this is not the the same, thus
un-sync?


No, higher FSB maxes out memory bandwidth.
The O/c Holy Grail is FSB - so, max that out first - then go for
multiplier.


Ok, I'll go with 200x11.5.

I might try some more at 200x12.0 as well, only problem is that I don't know
if it's good to experiment with Vcore ~ 2.06V, because that's what the
system requires to boot properly (the rest isn't worked out though ;-).


PS. Btw, as soon as I change the default 7,3,3,2.0 settings, the system
hang
or fails to boot, is this common for the TwinMOS 256MB PC3200 sticks?


Not uncommon for PC3200.
My OCZ PC3700 is OK at 7332 - but hangs in games at 6332, so don't feel
too
bad.

Hmm, ok, at least you can use Cas2.0, I can't. As soon as I lower any of the
four timing values by the smallest increment, the system becomes unstable.

Btw, why do I see some people using a much lower Row-active delay (the first
timing parameter)? Some have a "3" or even a "2" here, while I have only
seen "6","7" or "8" in my BIOS, depending on the frequency settings.




PS2. Should I try and run the memory at always twice the FSB or always
at
400 MHz?


There are considerable performance gains when memory is run synch.ly (ie -
"twice").


Ok, so if I happen to run my FSB at 166 MHz, my DD400 DIMMs should operate
at 333 MHz (6/6 CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio) instead of 400 MHz (6/5 CPU FSB/DRAM
Ratio)


QED, eh ?

----------------------

Epox 8RDA3+ (224 FSB - 2.0v)
XP1800 DLT3C (10.0 - 2240 MHz stable - 1.78v)
2 x OCZ 256MB PC3700 (448 - 7-3-3 / 2.0 dual - 2.9v)
Gigabyte Radeon 9700 Pro (373/353 - 1.5v)
Air - 42/60C
3DMk03 - 5,735
3DMk01 - 17,378

PS. When to increase the VDIMM voltage? When lowering timings or when
raising FSB?

regards,
Robert

"Robert" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the answers! More questions below.. ;-)

"QED, eh ?" wrote in message
...

"Robert" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I've just overclocked my new ABit NF-S v2.0 using XP 2400+ and 2x256MB
TwinMOS PC3200. Using only my standard 300W PSU and Alpha PAL 8045 /
Papst
8412 NGML, I've found the following speeds to be the highest (stable).
Which
should I choose:

1. 200x11.5 = 2300 MHz , min Vcore=1.8v
2. 166x14 = 2333 MHz, min Vcore= 1.85v

Slightly higher performance with the second option (naturally). I
suppose
I
should keep the 166 or 200 Mhz FSBs to operate in sync mode, right?


I still don't get this, you run your DIMMs at 224 FSB, that should equal
448
MHz DIMM speed, your PC3700 is 466 MHz, this is not the the same, thus
un-sync?


Look at my set-up again - OCZ @ 448.




No, higher FSB maxes out memory bandwidth.
The O/c Holy Grail is FSB - so, max that out first - then go for
multiplier.


Ok, I'll go with 200x11.5.

I might try some more at 200x12.0 as well, only problem is that I don't
know
if it's good to experiment with Vcore ~ 2.06V, because that's what the
system requires to boot properly (the rest isn't worked out though ;-).


Take your FSB up to the max your chipset allows - increasing all voltages
along the way.
Voltage ain't bad for a chip, but heat is - hence serious o/c'ing requires
serious cooling (copper, 80mm, etc).




PS. Btw, as soon as I change the default 7,3,3,2.0 settings, the
system
hang
or fails to boot, is this common for the TwinMOS 256MB PC3200 sticks?


Not uncommon for PC3200.
My OCZ PC3700 is OK at 7332 - but hangs in games at 6332, so don't feel
too
bad.

Hmm, ok, at least you can use Cas2.0, I can't. As soon as I lower any of
the
four timing values by the smallest increment, the system becomes unstable.


Get faster memory - or increase Vdimm (I/O plane voltage).
Slower memory may hold your system back - what mobo you have ?


Btw, why do I see some people using a much lower Row-active delay (the
first
timing parameter)? Some have a "3" or even a "2" here, while I have only
seen "6","7" or "8" in my BIOS, depending on the frequency settings.


On high-end mobo's, these are individually adjustable (in "expert" mode, on
my mobo).






PS2. Should I try and run the memory at always twice the FSB or always
at
400 MHz?


There are considerable performance gains when memory is run synch.ly
(ie -
"twice").


Ok, so if I happen to run my FSB at 166 MHz, my DD400 DIMMs should operate
at 333 MHz (6/6 CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio) instead of 400 MHz (6/5 CPU FSB/DRAM
Ratio)


Give it a shot !




QED, eh ?

----------------------

Epox 8RDA3+ (224 FSB - 2.0v)
XP1800 DLT3C (10.0 - 2240 MHz stable - 1.78v)
2 x OCZ 256MB PC3700 (448 - 7-3-3 / 2.0 dual - 2.9v)
Gigabyte Radeon 9700 Pro (373/353 - 1.5v)
Air - 42/60C
3DMk03 - 5,735
3DMk01 - 17,378

PS. When to increase the VDIMM voltage? When lowering timings or when
raising FSB?

regards,
Robert

Thanks Ed,

I think I got it. The Ratio should always be att 6/6 if I want sync mode. If
I keep the ratio at that, I can set the FSB to whatever I want while still
maintaining sync mode, eg FSB 173 MHz..?

Is there any difference between say a 3/3 ratio setting and a 6/6 ratio
setting?

regards,
Robert

I've deleted some text from the original message..


I still don't get this, you run your DIMMs at 224 FSB, that should equal
448
MHz DIMM speed, your PC3700 is 466 MHz, this is not the the same, thus
un-sync?


Look at my set-up again - OCZ @ 448.


I thought that the DIMM speed, in your case PC3700/DDR466 = 466 MHz had to
match the DIMM timing in the BIOS (printed to the right of the "6/6 CPU
FSB/DRAM Ratio") for it to be in sync mode. Not so I guess..


Take your FSB up to the max your chipset allows - increasing all voltages
along the way.
Voltage ain't bad for a chip, but heat is - hence serious o/c'ing requires
serious cooling (copper, 80mm, etc).


What should the max CPU temp be? Is 60C ok?


Hmm, ok, at least you can use Cas2.0, I can't. As soon as I lower any of
the
four timing values by the smallest increment, the system becomes
unstable.


Get faster memory - or increase Vdimm (I/O plane voltage).
Slower memory may hold your system back - what mobo you have ?


Abit NF7-S v2.0
The memory should be fast enough, TwinMos PC3200/DDR400. With the FSB at 200
MHz, I have 8, 3, 3, 2.5 timings in bios, really crappy I guess..


Btw, why do I see some people using a much lower Row-active delay (the
first
timing parameter)? Some have a "3" or even a "2" here, while I have only
seen "6","7" or "8" in my BIOS, depending on the frequency settings.


On high-end mobo's, these are individually adjustable (in "expert" mode,
on
my mobo).


Yes, on my mobo too, however, if I change that "8" to a "7" or "2.5" to
"2.0" my system becomes unstable. How can people run the Row-active delay at
"3" or "2"?? Is this when running in non-sync mode or with a single stick of
memory?

Ok, so if I happen to run my FSB at 166 MHz, my DD400 DIMMs should
operate
at 333 MHz (6/6 CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio) instead of 400 MHz (6/5 CPU
FSB/DRAM
Ratio)


Give it a shot !


In other words, always keep the CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio at 6/6?


regards,
Robert

"Robert" wrote in message
...
I've deleted some text from the original message..


I still don't get this, you run your DIMMs at 224 FSB, that should
equal
448
MHz DIMM speed, your PC3700 is 466 MHz, this is not the the same, thus
un-sync?


Look at my set-up again - OCZ @ 448.


I thought that the DIMM speed, in your case PC3700/DDR466 = 466 MHz had to
match the DIMM timing in the BIOS (printed to the right of the "6/6 CPU
FSB/DRAM Ratio") for it to be in sync mode. Not so I guess..


Take your FSB up to the max your chipset allows - increasing all
voltages
along the way.
Voltage ain't bad for a chip, but heat is - hence serious o/c'ing
requires
serious cooling (copper, 80mm, etc).


What should the max CPU temp be? Is 60C ok?


Fully loaded, yes.
Useful limit's about 60-65C, 65+ and you need to do something.
Remove PSU cover.
Fit vent in side-panel (over CPU fan)
Remove drive and PCI blanking plates.
Remove case fan grilles and fan guards.
Try stacking a second identical CPU fan.
This lot should drop it at least 10C.




Hmm, ok, at least you can use Cas2.0, I can't. As soon as I lower any
of
the
four timing values by the smallest increment, the system becomes
unstable.


Get faster memory - or increase Vdimm (I/O plane voltage).
Slower memory may hold your system back - what mobo you have ?


Abit NF7-S v2.0
The memory should be fast enough, TwinMos PC3200/DDR400. With the FSB at
200
MHz, I have 8, 3, 3, 2.5 timings in bios, really crappy I guess..


Gurus suggest you should pay more for your memory than your mobo.
Your timings are OK - spending a lot more for a max 5% increase ain't worth
it.




Btw, why do I see some people using a much lower Row-active delay (the
first
timing parameter)? Some have a "3" or even a "2" here, while I have
only
seen "6","7" or "8" in my BIOS, depending on the frequency settings.


On high-end mobo's, these are individually adjustable (in "expert" mode,
on
my mobo).


Yes, on my mobo too, however, if I change that "8" to a "7" or "2.5" to
"2.0" my system becomes unstable. How can people run the Row-active delay
at
"3" or "2"??


More Vdimm or better memory.


Is this when running in non-sync mode or with a single stick of
memory?

Ok, so if I happen to run my FSB at 166 MHz, my DD400 DIMMs should
operate
at 333 MHz (6/6 CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio) instead of 400 MHz (6/5 CPU
FSB/DRAM
Ratio)


Give it a shot !


In other words, always keep the CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio at 6/6?


At your FSB limit, the memory prolly won't run much faster than 2x.
But if it will, test your rig with 3DMark -01 and -03 or SiSoft Sandra.




regards,
Robert

snip
In other words, always keep the CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio at 6/6?


regards,
Robert


Yes. 6/6 = 100% = in sync.

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:03:54 +0200, Robert wrote:

I've just overclocked my new ABit NF-S v2.0 using XP 2400+ and 2x256MB
TwinMOS PC3200. Using only my standard 300W PSU and Alpha PAL 8045 /
Papst 8412 NGML, I've found the following speeds to be the highest
(stable). Which should I choose:

1. 200x11.5 = 2300 MHz , min Vcore=1.8v 2. 166x14 = 2333 MHz, min Vcore=
1.85v

Slightly higher performance with the second option (naturally). I
suppose I should keep the 166 or 200 Mhz FSBs to operate in sync mode,
right?

You should always run the FSB and memory bus in sync for best performance.
So if you can only get 166MHz out of your memory, keep the FSB to 166MHz.
Of course 200MHz for both would be a little better.

PS. Btw, as soon as I change the default 7,3,3,2.0 settings, the system
hang or fails to boot, is this common for the TwinMOS 256MB PC3200
sticks?

PS2. Should I try and run the memory at always twice the FSB or always
at 400 MHz?

There aren't any 400Mhz rams on the market. PC3200 is 200MHz. Talking
actual bus speed here, not data rate, DDR400. The memory bus and FSB
should have the same clock speed, 166MHz, 200MHz, or whatever.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html

Robert wrote:
Thanks Ed,

I think I got it. The Ratio should always be att 6/6 if I want sync
mode. If I keep the ratio at that, I can set the FSB to whatever I
want while still maintaining sync mode, eg FSB 173 MHz..?

Yes

Is there any difference between say a 3/3 ratio setting and a 6/6
ratio setting?

Do the maths...

:-)

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a string...

Robert wrote:
I've deleted some text from the original message..


I still don't get this, you run your DIMMs at 224 FSB, that should
equal 448 MHz DIMM speed, your PC3700 is 466 MHz, this is not the
the same, thus un-sync?


Look at my set-up again - OCZ @ 448.


I thought that the DIMM speed, in your case PC3700/DDR466 = 466 MHz
had to match the DIMM timing in the BIOS (printed to the right of the
"6/6 CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio") for it to be in sync mode. Not so I guess..


Just because it's PC3700, which is designed to run at 233MHz, doesn't mean
that you have to run it at that speed. QED, eh ? is running his memory at
448, which is 224MHz - this is probably because he cannot get faster than
that with his FSB.

On your motherboard, you set the FSB to the speed you want, and then set the
speed of the memory with a ratio, if the ratio is 1 (1/1, 3/3, 6/6 etc.)
then you are in synch.

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a string...