P6X58D triple channel vs 2 sticks ram

Does anyone think I would see any real world difference between
upgrading to 12 gb (3, 4 gb sticks) in triple channel mode or 16 gb using 2
eight gb sticks?
I currently have 6 gb (3, two gb sticks) and want to add memory. I would
replace the 3, 2 gb sticks.
The price is comparable.
Thanks

dave wrote:
Does anyone think I would see any real world difference between
upgrading to 12 gb (3, 4 gb sticks) in triple channel mode or 16 gb using 2
eight gb sticks?
I currently have 6 gb (3, two gb sticks) and want to add memory. I would
replace the 3, 2 gb sticks.
The price is comparable.
Thanks

I just tried the Crucial site, and all they recommend is 4GB sticks
as their largest.

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compat.../ASUS/p6x58d-e

The memory support is a function of the CPU, but it can be
difficult to track down the details. You could try ark.intel.com
and see.

For example, i7-980 takes six sticks at 4GB each, 24GB max.

http://ark.intel.com/products/58664/...l-QPI?q=i7-980

And personally, I'd be careful. When I bought sticks, they were
4GB single-sided. The higher speed memory ("unnecessarily fast"),
is made with a certain brand of chip. It's a chip suited to making
8GB DIMMs. To make 4GB DIMMs, they half-populate it, and the
DIMM is single sided.

If you run such a stick on your system, there is a danger it
will be detected as a 2GB stick.

Older, slower grades of memory, uses a memory chip which is
half as dense as this new stuff. And that older generation
of memory, would be detected as a proper 4GB stick.

If I was buying memory for your system, I would use the
Crucial search results to select memory, or Kingston (valueram.com etc)
has datasheets. What I'd be looking for, is 4GB double sided DIMMs
with 16 chips. Just so I wouldn't run into any rotten surprises.
(I don't know for a *fact* there is a problem, but I have seen
this problem before, in previous years.)

I don't like the new 8GB DIMM family for this reason. When
they want to make 4GB DIMMs, they no longer make them with
16 chips, and instead make single sided ones with eight. And
that could cause problems when you get it home and install it.
If the memory controller doesn't have the address bit for
the newer chips, the memory capacity is "half-detected".

Just so you have some idea what is happening, when you get
the new stuff.

So if I was buying it, I would either need a "guarantee" from
the seller, that is is compatible. Or, I would need a datasheet
that promises the DIMM will always be double sided. At one
time, Kingston was always honest. But they slipped up once,
in the 1GB/2GB era, and started shipping whatever they felt
like. Which causes problems for systems with a 1GB limit.
And as a result, if I had the Kingston data sheet, great,
but I'd have to back up the info, with some actual
pictures of the DIMMs, and make a guess on sided-ness
from there.

What Kingston was doing with the 1GB/2GB era stuff, is
the memory chips used were nearly equal in costs. They
could use 16 lower-density chips, or 8 higher-density chips.
And they'd change their minds every other week as to the
cheapest way to build the DIMMs from parts. This is *not*
how you manage products which are backed up by a published
datasheet. And they never used to do that. They used
to be trustworthy. Now it means extra work.

If Kingston will give you a "guarantee" of compatibility,
then, fine. I used to shop Kingston, using and trusting
the datasheet. If the drawing showed 16 chips, then I could
know in advance there wouldn't be any "density issues".

*******

Do you have a good reason to go from 3*2GB to 3*4GB ?
Running multiple virtual machines might be a reason.
Maybe something like Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Or 7ZIP can use a fair amount of RAM, if you
crank up the knobs on the compressor. Checking
peak memory consumption, used to be the method
used to predict whether more RAM was needed, but
on the modern OSes, this info can be a bit harder
to find.

In this WinXP example, the user at some point in
the day, was using 324538KB. You would need to find
the equivalent "Peak Commit Charge" on your current
OS, to determine whether extra RAM is needed. You
can certainly install extra RAM and use it as a RAM
disk.

http://www.techspot.com/tweaks/memor...p/image004.gif

This product will make a 4GB RAM Disk for you to play
with, for free. All you need is left-over RAM.
Right now, my machine has a 4GB RAM Disk on it.
And another 4GB for a 32 bit Windows OS.
Sometimes, when I unpack a tarball with 60,000
files on it, I put it on the RAM Disk. Not actually
because the RAM Disk is fast, but because doing
so doesn't fragment other partitions. The RAM Diks
has blistering sequential speed (4GB/sec on my
puny machine), but when you make calls through the
file system, the file system throttles things
to the point the RAM Disk feels no faster than
a conventional hard drive. So don't be surprised
if this thing is a letdown. But I still use it
for things like a scratch disk for GIMP photo
editor.

(Ramdisk Lite)
http://memory.dataram.com/products-a...ftware/ramdisk

Paul

Thanks for the detailed reply Paul. I wasn't aware
of these other issues.
I want more ram because I've joined the "crowd funded"
new mmo game called Star Citizen, which is advising
a minimum of 8gb when it gets going. Its still in alpha
stage now.
Crucial has a 16gb kit (4x4). This set in my triple
channel mb would perform as well as it could? Basically
ignoring the triple channel feature of the mb?
My cpu is the i7 920.
Thanks

dave wrote:
Thanks for the detailed reply Paul. I wasn't aware
of these other issues.
I want more ram because I've joined the "crowd funded"
new mmo game called Star Citizen, which is advising
a minimum of 8gb when it gets going. Its still in alpha
stage now.
Crucial has a 16gb kit (4x4). This set in my triple
channel mb would perform as well as it could? Basically
ignoring the triple channel feature of the mb?
My cpu is the i7 920.
Thanks

There is a selector at the top of the page
called "Kit Quantity". If you set that to three,
for a triple channel board, they do have a
three-stick kit. That gets the price to $149.99.

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/p6x58d-e/CT2586858

When you get the kit, you'll be able to run

3x2GB (original config)
3x4GB (new RAM)
3x2GB + 3x4GB (both kits - all six slots filled)

How well the latter 18GB combination works,
depends on what speed the old ones were
running at, and what clocking options you find
for the RAM.

Your board supports XMP profiles. That's a table
stored on the DIMM, that tells the computer how
to run more than the normal configuration, sets
the voltage for you and so on. When you mix sets of
DIMMs, I don't think the BIOS is going to know what
to do. Instead of following any XMP entries, it
will use the regular SPD entries. It always
knows what to do, but won't be running any
automatic overclocking entries. When you run
six sticks, there will be more opportunities
for manual tweaks. Whereas running just the
three sticks, more automatic options can be
available.

The Crucial kits appear to be 1.5V, whereas some
of the higher speed kits (not of much use to you
perhaps), are 1.65V. So you could have a 1.65V kit
already. There should not be a problem combining
them - it would mean running all six sticks at 1.65V
perhaps. So mixing the kits does present some
challenges.

What you could do, is keep the old sticks in
their antistatic container, for a day when you
want to try the 18GB configuration. And just
use the 3x4GB set when it arrives.

*******

You can learn something about the existing 3x2GB set,
using CPU-Z. Download the non-install version
and give it a try. It should give various bits
of info about the existing RAM, whether it's running
tight or loose timing, a high or low frequency
and so on. Just so you have some idea how close
the two kits are, to matching.

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

You can also use a copy of memtest86+, make
some boot media before the kit arrives, and use
that to test the new kit. Testing with memtest86+
before attempting to boot Windows or Linux, is
to prevent bad RAM from doing something to the
OS installation. I ran this on my sticks when
they arrived.

(Downloads are 50% of the way down the page...)

http://www.memtest.org/

Traditionally, I use the floppy based version,
for old time sake. On the new build, I used
a USB floppy drive, and shoved my memtest test
floppy in there. I think one of the tests,
I left it running until the next morning.
Basically, I want to do at least one complete
test pass. There is a pass counter on the screen,
so you can tell when it is done. The test will
run forever if you leave it.

In this sample photo, it's running Test #2. The
test that shows errors reasonably well, is Test #5.
You can see the test pass counter is still zero here,
so there is a good bit of testing to go.

http://www.memtest.org/pics/amd64-big.gif

I also run Prime95 (just the torture test portion)
from mersenne.org/freesoft download page. I ran
that for eight hours on the new build. It draws
a fair amount of power, and makes the CPU heat up.
It also is a good test for the RAM, if you select
the right size of memory space to test. Versions of
the program are available for Windows and Linux.
When I ran that on the new board, the VCore heatsink
was scalding hot to the touch. My build ended up with
an extra fan pointed at the VCore heatsink. I have
another board, with an extra-large heatsink, it
never gets more than luke-warm. And Prime95 doesn't
threaten any part of that machine, when it runs
the CPU flat out.

Adding fans and installing cooling on the build, took
more time than anything else. It took several days,
to make custom mounts for fans. For example, one
fan mount slides into a 5.25" drive bay, and uses
the bay for mechanical support. I hate having to
make stuff like that, but it's the only way to
satisfy my urge to build cool-running stuff :-)
Don't want the new board to fry or anything.
Testing for errors, checking temperatures, are
all part of the build process.

Paul

Paul wrote in :

dave wrote:
Thanks for the detailed reply Paul. I wasn't aware
of these other issues.
I want more ram because I've joined the "crowd funded"
new mmo game called Star Citizen, which is advising
a minimum of 8gb when it gets going. Its still in alpha
stage now.
Crucial has a 16gb kit (4x4). This set in my triple
channel mb would perform as well as it could? Basically
ignoring the triple channel feature of the mb?
My cpu is the i7 920.
Thanks

There is a selector at the top of the page
called "Kit Quantity". If you set that to three,
for a triple channel board, they do have a
three-stick kit. That gets the price to $149.99.

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/p6x58d-e/CT2586858

When you get the kit, you'll be able to run

3x2GB (original config)
3x4GB (new RAM)
3x2GB + 3x4GB (both kits - all six slots filled)

How well the latter 18GB combination works,
depends on what speed the old ones were
running at, and what clocking options you find
for the RAM.

Your board supports XMP profiles. That's a table
stored on the DIMM, that tells the computer how
to run more than the normal configuration, sets
the voltage for you and so on. When you mix sets of
DIMMs, I don't think the BIOS is going to know what
to do. Instead of following any XMP entries, it
will use the regular SPD entries. It always
knows what to do, but won't be running any
automatic overclocking entries. When you run
six sticks, there will be more opportunities
for manual tweaks. Whereas running just the
three sticks, more automatic options can be
available.

The Crucial kits appear to be 1.5V, whereas some
of the higher speed kits (not of much use to you
perhaps), are 1.65V. So you could have a 1.65V kit
already. There should not be a problem combining
them - it would mean running all six sticks at 1.65V
perhaps. So mixing the kits does present some
challenges.

What you could do, is keep the old sticks in
their antistatic container, for a day when you
want to try the 18GB configuration. And just
use the 3x4GB set when it arrives.

*******

You can learn something about the existing 3x2GB set,
using CPU-Z. Download the non-install version
and give it a try. It should give various bits
of info about the existing RAM, whether it's running
tight or loose timing, a high or low frequency
and so on. Just so you have some idea how close
the two kits are, to matching.

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

You can also use a copy of memtest86+, make
some boot media before the kit arrives, and use
that to test the new kit. Testing with memtest86+
before attempting to boot Windows or Linux, is
to prevent bad RAM from doing something to the
OS installation. I ran this on my sticks when
they arrived.

(Downloads are 50% of the way down the page...)

http://www.memtest.org/

Traditionally, I use the floppy based version,
for old time sake. On the new build, I used
a USB floppy drive, and shoved my memtest test
floppy in there. I think one of the tests,
I left it running until the next morning.
Basically, I want to do at least one complete
test pass. There is a pass counter on the screen,
so you can tell when it is done. The test will
run forever if you leave it.

In this sample photo, it's running Test #2. The
test that shows errors reasonably well, is Test #5.
You can see the test pass counter is still zero here,
so there is a good bit of testing to go.

http://www.memtest.org/pics/amd64-big.gif

I also run Prime95 (just the torture test portion)
from mersenne.org/freesoft download page. I ran
that for eight hours on the new build. It draws
a fair amount of power, and makes the CPU heat up.
It also is a good test for the RAM, if you select
the right size of memory space to test. Versions of
the program are available for Windows and Linux.
When I ran that on the new board, the VCore heatsink
was scalding hot to the touch. My build ended up with
an extra fan pointed at the VCore heatsink. I have
another board, with an extra-large heatsink, it
never gets more than luke-warm. And Prime95 doesn't
threaten any part of that machine, when it runs
the CPU flat out.

Adding fans and installing cooling on the build, took
more time than anything else. It took several days,
to make custom mounts for fans. For example, one
fan mount slides into a 5.25" drive bay, and uses
the bay for mechanical support. I hate having to
make stuff like that, but it's the only way to
satisfy my urge to build cool-running stuff :-)
Don't want the new board to fry or anything.
Testing for errors, checking temperatures, are
all part of the build process.

Paul


Thanks for the time and effort you've put into your reply,Paul.
I totally missed that selector box for the kit quantity on the Crucial
site.
My existing ram is OCZ 1600 at 1.5 volts, with 9 9 9 24 timings. I never
even considered keeping the 6 gb I have and just adding 12 more. Seems
like the way to go to me. I liked your suggestion to just use the new 12
gb first, and then later to add back my original 6 if I wanted to.
I've experimented with O/Clocking so I have Cpu-z and Memtest. I have also
used "Intelburntest" as a stress tester.
Thanks again
Dave