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#1
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...d-hx318c10fr-4
https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...k-hx318c10fb-4 Other than the price ? I downloaded the Kingston specs https://cdn.cnetcontent.com/07/e9/07...f10cf84f67.pdf Which says: Latency CL9-11 Voltage 1.35V, 1.5V It does not help at all in knowing if I can add a stick or two. My current memory is KHX1866C10D3/4G Number of banks 8 Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts (CPU-Z output) TIA []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#2
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
Shadow wrote:
https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...d-hx318c10fr-4 https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...k-hx318c10fb-4 Other than the price ? I downloaded the Kingston specs https://cdn.cnetcontent.com/07/e9/07...f10cf84f67.pdf Which says: Latency CL9-11 Voltage 1.35V, 1.5V It does not help at all in knowing if I can add a stick or two. My current memory is KHX1866C10D3/4G Number of banks 8 Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts (CPU-Z output) TIA []'s Kingston has specs right on their own web site. 50758 HX318C10FR/4 CAS10 1866 1.35V RS220 50759 HX318C10FB/4 CAS10 1866 1.5V RS247 The available information only lists 1.5V products. https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX318C10FR_4.pdf The article here suggests the heat spreader color is for "taste" in PC construction. Four colors are available in all. The heat spreader color is not intended as a voltage indicator. https://www.kingston.com/en/company/press/article/7141 If your retailer is to be believed, then I would select the 1.5V product to match the 1.5V product I already have. Someone had a problem with this very thing in a post about two days ago. System had two 1.5V DIMMs, poster added two 1.35V DIMMs. The 1.35V DIMMs (DDR3L) are supposed to work in 1.5V system, and that's why the keying on the edgecard of the DIMM allows insertion. However, the system of the poster would not work. CH0 CH1 Note: all DIMMs are 4GB 1.5V ---- 1.5V ---- (Dual channel mode) Failed to POST... 1.35V ---- 1.35V ---- For reasons known only to the BIOS logic, this worked. CH0 CH1 1.5V ---- 1.35V ---- (Dual channel mode) Works... 1.5V ---- 1.35V ---- Both of these setups run *all* slots at 1.5V. The sticks are never "treated as individuals". The way RAM works, is the environment of all DIMMs is the same. They receive the Column Address Strobe (CAS) on the same cycle. They receive the same clock frequency. They receive the same voltage for their power source. Since the DIMMs are on shared buses and the memory controller for both channels comes from the same chip, there is an incentive to make all operating conditions identical. Why inserting the DIMMs as in the second diagram works, is a mystery. Since the DIMMs are all 4GB ones of equivalent construction, it allows some flexibility in mixing. The dual channel works in both situations. The system is still in dual channel mode after the change. A question you would have to ask, is whether the 1.5V RAM you "boost" to 1.65V, whether a 1.35V RAM can also be boosted to 1.65V. If you do select the 1.35V RAM, I would do so only for a system which does not have a high boost for VDimm. As I don't know the extent of the "tolerance" on the 1.35V DDR3L. The 1.35V stuff is readily available, and Kingston has resorted to "cherry picking" on the DRAM market. While the spec sheet says 1.5V, Kingston refuses to make a separate SKU for 1.35V in this case. Kingston did something similar a few years back, mixing high density and low density DIMMs under the same SKU, in violation of their datasheet. (The datasheet might show double-sided DIMMs, but the blister packs of memory had single-sided DIMMs in some packages and double-sided DIMMs in other packages. This caused *grief* for people seeking low density RAM, which is what the product was intended for.) As far as I know, if 1.35V RAM is on a DIMM, the SPD EEPROM must have an encoding for it. Consequently, if those two products are for real on your retailer site, they likely do not have identical SPD contents when you examine them in CPUZ SPD table. This could be what is causing the BIOS to fail to set up some configurations of the mixed RAM. The BIOS was not programmed to accept "variation" in that field of the SPD EEPROM. The general rule of thumb for memory is, to mix "like with like". Don't mix server ram with "enthusiast overclocker RAM" as the latter needs too much voltage for stability. If you start with server ram at stock voltage, your upgrade to the system should also be server class RAM (which runs at JEDEC voltage, not boosted voltage). If you need to save a few bucks by buying the 1.35V RAM, you can. But be prepared for the system to black screen and not POST properly. You may have to send the RAM back, if your BIOS does not like it. There is no way to know in advance, whether the BIOS is ready for it. It's also possible, if the motherboard has a BIOS upgrade, that the BIOS could be modified to "ignore" the voltage field. And then any configuration of DIMMs would work with less trouble than the above example. HTH, Paul |
#3
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 09:43:56 -0500, Paul
wrote: Shadow wrote: https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...d-hx318c10fr-4 https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...k-hx318c10fb-4 Other than the price ? I downloaded the Kingston specs https://cdn.cnetcontent.com/07/e9/07...f10cf84f67.pdf Which says: Latency CL9-11 Voltage 1.35V, 1.5V It does not help at all in knowing if I can add a stick or two. My current memory is KHX1866C10D3/4G Number of banks 8 Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts (CPU-Z output) TIA []'s Kingston has specs right on their own web site. 50758 HX318C10FR/4 CAS10 1866 1.35V RS220 50759 HX318C10FB/4 CAS10 1866 1.5V RS247 The available information only lists 1.5V products. https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX318C10FR_4.pdf Exactly the same as https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX318C10FB_4.pdf The article here suggests the heat spreader color is for "taste" in PC construction. Four colors are available in all. The heat spreader color is not intended as a voltage indicator. --- slight cut If you need to save a few bucks by buying the 1.35V RAM, you can. But be prepared for the system to black screen and not POST properly. You may have to send the RAM back, if your BIOS does not like it. There is no way to know in advance, whether the BIOS is ready for it. If it's not 1.5V I can send it back, since that's what they specify on the page. That's the law out here. Características: - Marca: HyperX - Modelo: HX318C10FR/4 Especificações: - Tipo: 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM - Capacidade: 4GB - Aceleração: DDR3 1866 - Cas Latência: 10 - Tensão: 1.5V --------- It's also possible, if the motherboard has a BIOS upgrade, that the BIOS could be modified to "ignore" the voltage field. And then any configuration of DIMMs would work with less trouble than the above example. HTH, Paul It does. TY for the links and info. I'll go for the cheaper offer. And let you know how it worked out. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#4
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:45:24 -0200, Shadow wrote:
If it's not 1.5V I can send it back, since that's what they specify on the page. That's the law out here. Was a long time ago, but last time I called Kingston I couldn't believe the red-carpet commitment to satisfied customers. I'd a question regarding a USB flashstick, back when something like a 2 or 4G was a big deal. |
#5
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 13:19:28 -0500, Flasherly
wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:45:24 -0200, Shadow wrote: If it's not 1.5V I can send it back, since that's what they specify on the page. That's the law out here. Was a long time ago, but last time I called Kingston I couldn't believe the red-carpet commitment to satisfied customers. I'd a question regarding a USB flashstick, back when something like a 2 or 4G was a big deal. I have something like 3 days to send it back to the shop, for a full refund. More than that, and it's under Kingston's possibly non-existent warranty. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#6
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:47:35 -0200, Shadow wrote:
I have something like 3 days to send it back to the shop, for a full refund. More than that, and it's under Kingston's possibly non-existent warranty. Took me longer than 3 days to call for an explanation of why physically formatted sectors might not correspond to a limit of unique file entries I'd falsely presumed FAT capable of storing. Initiate a live chat after preparing those contingencies for possible recourse should any then arise. https://www.kingston.com/en/support |
#7
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 10:23:14 -0200, Shadow wrote:
https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...d-hx318c10fr-4 https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...k-hx318c10fb-4 Other than the price ? I downloaded the Kingston specs https://cdn.cnetcontent.com/07/e9/07...f10cf84f67.pdf Which says: Latency CL9-11 Voltage 1.35V, 1.5V It does not help at all in knowing if I can add a stick or two. My current memory is KHX1866C10D3/4G Number of banks 8 Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts (CPU-Z output) TIA []'s To Paul and others that helped, TY. Installed. According to CPU-Z hey are exactly the same model number and voltage as the "black" model, so it appears the "heat dissipaters" or whatever are painted different colors, but the memories are the same. Ran two rounds of Memtest86+ and no errors. The only strange thing that happened is my clock sometimes loses or gains 20-30 seconds in a day. (I use Neutron from Keir.net to synchronize on Startup). And that never happened before I installed the memories.The error was always a second or less. Maybe I twisted something on the MB when I pressed the memories in place. Weird. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#8
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 10:23:14 -0200, Shadow wrote: https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...d-hx318c10fr-4 https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...k-hx318c10fb-4 Other than the price ? I downloaded the Kingston specs https://cdn.cnetcontent.com/07/e9/07...f10cf84f67.pdf Which says: Latency CL9-11 Voltage 1.35V, 1.5V It does not help at all in knowing if I can add a stick or two. My current memory is KHX1866C10D3/4G Number of banks 8 Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts (CPU-Z output) TIA []'s To Paul and others that helped, TY. Installed. According to CPU-Z hey are exactly the same model number and voltage as the "black" model, so it appears the "heat dissipaters" or whatever are painted different colors, but the memories are the same. Ran two rounds of Memtest86+ and no errors. The only strange thing that happened is my clock sometimes loses or gains 20-30 seconds in a day. (I use Neutron from Keir.net to synchronize on Startup). And that never happened before I installed the memories.The error was always a second or less. Maybe I twisted something on the MB when I pressed the memories in place. Weird. []'s That is 230ppm at least. That's a little high. The computer has two time pieces. Windows time. BIOS time. Windows runs a software clock. It depends on BCLK for traceability. THe BIOS runs the RTC clock, which depends on the 32768Hz motherboard crystal. The software clock can only lose time (by "missing" clock tick interrupts). Windows time could gain or lose, based on BCLK being off. BIOS time could gain or lose, based on 32768Hz clock. Paul |
#9
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 19:18:59 -0500, Paul
wrote: The only strange thing that happened is my clock sometimes loses or gains 20-30 seconds in a day. (I use Neutron from Keir.net to synchronize on Startup). And that never happened before I installed the memories.The error was always a second or less. Maybe I twisted something on the MB when I pressed the memories in place. Weird. []'s That is 230ppm at least. That's a little high. The computer has two time pieces. Windows time. BIOS time. Windows runs a software clock. It depends on BCLK for traceability. THe BIOS runs the RTC clock, which depends on the 32768Hz motherboard crystal. The software clock can only lose time (by "missing" clock tick interrupts). Windows time could gain or lose, based on BCLK being off. BIOS time could gain or lose, based on 32768Hz clock. Last night I synched my time, turned off my network, closed windows. When I started up today I opened Wireshark, turned the network back on and time was spot-on (nothing showed on Wireshark other than the usual ARP stuff and the Neutron query). After it was on for 3 hours I checked the time and it was 4 seconds off. I disconnected the network again, etc et al, and when I had rebooted the time was exact, no delay. I did NOT correct the time before rebooting. IOW the BIOS time seems to be working fine. I always assumed Windows used the BIOS hardware clock and not some "internal software clock". I read somewhere that BCLK is used for overclocking. My BIOS settings are set to default. What could be altering the BCLK time by so much ? And could adding memory have affected it somehow ? TIA []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#10
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What's the difference between these two memories ?
Shadow wrote:
Last night I synched my time, turned off my network, closed windows. When I started up today I opened Wireshark, turned the network back on and time was spot-on (nothing showed on Wireshark other than the usual ARP stuff and the Neutron query). After it was on for 3 hours I checked the time and it was 4 seconds off. I disconnected the network again, etc et al, and when I had rebooted the time was exact, no delay. I did NOT correct the time before rebooting. IOW the BIOS time seems to be working fine. I always assumed Windows used the BIOS hardware clock and not some "internal software clock". I read somewhere that BCLK is used for overclocking. My BIOS settings are set to default. What could be altering the BCLK time by so much ? And could adding memory have affected it somehow ? TIA []'s Well, it's either the absolute frequency of BCLK which is off, or, something is preventing clock tick interrupts from being serviced. The best references I've seen on the various clocks in a computer, is on the VM hosting software company web sites. They usually explain what clocks are inside a real PC, and how the virtualized environment provides those same clocks as "fakes". But it also teaches you about how clocks work on the host itself. If you have a modern multi-core Intel processor, you can try locking the cores together temporarily as a test. The machine can save power if the cores operate independently on frequency, but it also causes some complications when handing clock information from one core to another. My other machine, the core clocks are locked, and turbo is disabled (to prevent overheat). Paul |
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