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#11
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HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade
On 02/05/2018 11:56 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:28:18 +0000 (UTC), dogs wrote: I guess those are 500 GB? My smaller ST3160023A has "3 years, 4 months, and 4 days" Power-On Hours. I think I bought it about 18 years ago. I don't know how long I ran a some 200G Seagates. One SATA and a PATA are left out of possibly three maybe four original units. I've backup data the PATA, at least while MBs continue to provide the interface;- same for the SATA, which is among storage drives that don't see a lot of use, except for a powered USB docking stations. It's almost ludicrous to admit a preferred efficiency I still like about my first SSD, a Samsung 64G unit. My last 500- to 700G-class, a plattered Western Digital HDD, though, still bears a brunt of downloadable material, augmented by a couple other 250G-class SSDs, and organized accordingingly for strategical advancement a SSD provides. The WD will be next to go, placed in the dockting-station queue and replaced by a 500-class SDD. Another thing comes to mind, re the OP and Statistical Abstracts provided by IT WEB "drive rankings". HDD manufacturers are neither unaware of an unfavorable such publicity provides. At times farther research is indicated, e.g. a HDD manufacturer model may be subsequently "hidden", as an identifiable model, within and subject to objectionable characteristics. Another area is updated drive firmware ROM. One of my 2T drives was manufactured to cycle-out power states inordinately. Jacking the power cycles, thereby shortening a drive life span means. . .who needs integrity when spending more of your money on failed drive replacements is vastly more interesting. The manufacturer subsequently released a firmware patch to define a definable maximum for nonintervention of data polling. The firmware was a direct result from a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer by the IT sector. As always, I wonder what you said. Gnome Disk Utility shows me Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded Overall assessment - Disk is OK And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even while three of the numbers in the table look bad. Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me "Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while the Assessment column says OK. Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it. |
#12
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HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade
smallbore wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:56 PM, Flasherly wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:28:18 +0000 (UTC), dogs wrote: I guess those are 500 GB? My smaller ST3160023A has "3 years, 4 months, and 4 days" Power-On Hours. I think I bought it about 18 years ago. I don't know how long I ran a some 200G Seagates. One SATA and a PATA are left out of possibly three maybe four original units. I've backup data the PATA, at least while MBs continue to provide the interface;- same for the SATA, which is among storage drives that don't see a lot of use, except for a powered USB docking stations. It's almost ludicrous to admit a preferred efficiency I still like about my first SSD, a Samsung 64G unit. My last 500- to 700G-class, a plattered Western Digital HDD, though, still bears a brunt of downloadable material, augmented by a couple other 250G-class SSDs, and organized accordingingly for strategical advancement a SSD provides. The WD will be next to go, placed in the dockting-station queue and replaced by a 500-class SDD. Another thing comes to mind, re the OP and Statistical Abstracts provided by IT WEB "drive rankings". HDD manufacturers are neither unaware of an unfavorable such publicity provides. At times farther research is indicated, e.g. a HDD manufacturer model may be subsequently "hidden", as an identifiable model, within and subject to objectionable characteristics. Another area is updated drive firmware ROM. One of my 2T drives was manufactured to cycle-out power states inordinately. Jacking the power cycles, thereby shortening a drive life span means. . .who needs integrity when spending more of your money on failed drive replacements is vastly more interesting. The manufacturer subsequently released a firmware patch to define a definable maximum for nonintervention of data polling. The firmware was a direct result from a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer by the IT sector. As always, I wonder what you said. Gnome Disk Utility shows me Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded Overall assessment - Disk is OK And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even while three of the numbers in the table look bad. Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me "Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while the Assessment column says OK. Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it. The only reliable indicators are Current Pending and Reallocated. And of those, some drives don't even update Current Pending properly and it always reads zero. Reallocated is thresholded, and the drive looks healthy until a large number of reallocations have occurred. The raw data field goes from around 0-5500 or so, before the drive would be considered "dead". It's the growth rate of that raw data, that gives you some idea how much trouble you're in. If Monday it says 100, Tuesday says 200, it's time to do a backup before it is too late... Raw Errors on a drive are not a problem, because the drive has error correction and an error corrector polynomial. Again, you're not in trouble, until the OS says "CRC error" and then you know that sector/cluster is toast and so is your file resting on it. The first indication of trouble, is running the free version of HDTune and doing a transfer rate curve, and seeing a "bad spot" in the curve for the disk. You will see "trouble" that way, before Reallocated even goes non-zero. That's the most sensitive test, even if occasionally it delivers a false positive. Some drives (for reasons unknown), "perk up" if you write them from end to end. And then when you run another transfer rate curve, they look "OK" again. Weird stuff. Between 42 and 48 here is a "bad spot", but this drive is generally pretty ****ty. Notice the yellow seek dots are way up high too, implying multiple rotations to get the data. I would replace this. http://forum.notebookreview.com/atta...une-jpg.49651/ This is a good drive. Only a couple of yellow dots are out-of-band. And the transfer curve, from outer diameter to inner diameter, shows the normal "zoned recording" pattern. The recording method varies a bit, from zone to zone, giving a stair-step curve. I would "give this drive to my mom" it's so nice. https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles...085804529l.jpg The free version of HDTune is here. This version is now ten years old, but it still works, and is all you need for this work. http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe Paul |
#13
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HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade
On 02/06/2018 4:01 PM, Paul wrote:
smallbore wrote: On 02/05/2018 11:56 PM, Flasherly wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:28:18 +0000 (UTC), dogs wrote: I guess those are 500 GB? My smaller ST3160023A has "3 years, 4 months, and 4 days" Power-On Hours. I think I bought it about 18 years ago. I don't know how long I ran a some 200G Seagates. One SATA and a PATA are left out of possibly three maybe four original units.* I've backup data the PATA, at least while MBs continue to provide the interface;- same for the SATA, which is among storage drives that don't see a lot of use, except for a powered USB docking stations.* It's almost ludicrous to admit a preferred efficiency I still like about my first SSD, a Samsung 64G unit.* My last 500- to 700G-class, a plattered Western Digital HDD, though, still bears a brunt of downloadable material, augmented by a couple other 250G-class SSDs, and organized accordingingly for strategical advancement a SSD provides.* The WD will be next to go, placed in the dockting-station queue and replaced by a 500-class SDD. Another thing comes to mind, re the OP and Statistical Abstracts provided by IT WEB "drive rankings".* HDD manufacturers are neither unaware of an unfavorable such publicity provides.* At times farther research is indicated, e.g. a HDD manufacturer model may be subsequently "hidden", as an identifiable model, within and subject to objectionable characteristics.* Another area is updated drive firmware ROM.* One of my 2T drives was manufactured to cycle-out power states inordinately. Jacking the power cycles, thereby shortening a drive life span means. . .who needs integrity when spending more of your money on failed drive replacements is vastly more interesting.* The manufacturer subsequently released a firmware patch to define a definable maximum for nonintervention of data polling. The firmware was a direct result from a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer by the IT sector. As always, I wonder what you said. Gnome Disk Utility shows me Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded Overall assessment - Disk is OK And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even while three of the numbers in the table look bad. Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me "Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while the Assessment column says OK. Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it. The only reliable indicators are Current Pending and Reallocated. And of those, some drives don't even update Current Pending properly and it always reads zero. Reallocated is thresholded, and the drive looks healthy until a large number of reallocations have occurred. The raw data field goes from around 0-5500 or so, before the drive would be considered "dead". It's the growth rate of that raw data, that gives you some idea how much trouble you're in. If Monday it says 100, Tuesday says 200, it's time to do a backup before it is too late... Raw Errors on a drive are not a problem, because the drive has error correction and an error corrector polynomial. Again, you're not in trouble, until the OS says "CRC error" and then you know that sector/cluster is toast and so is your file resting on it. The first indication of trouble, is running the free version of HDTune and doing a transfer rate curve, and seeing a "bad spot" in the curve for the disk. You will see "trouble" that way, before Reallocated even goes non-zero. That's the most sensitive test, even if occasionally it delivers a false positive. Some drives (for reasons unknown), "perk up" if you write them from end to end. And then when you run another transfer rate curve, they look "OK" again. Weird stuff. Between 42 and 48 here is a "bad spot", but this drive is generally pretty ****ty. Notice the yellow seek dots are way up high too, implying multiple rotations to get the data. I would replace this. http://forum.notebookreview.com/atta...une-jpg.49651/ This is a good drive. Only a couple of yellow dots are out-of-band. And the transfer curve, from outer diameter to inner diameter, shows the normal "zoned recording" pattern. The recording method varies a bit, from zone to zone, giving a stair-step curve. I would "give this drive to my mom" it's so nice. https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles...085804529l.jpg The free version of HDTune is here. This version is now ten years old, but it still works, and is all you need for this work. http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe ** Paul Hi Paul, I had never paid much attention to the band of yellow dots, not knowing exactly what they signify. So I took a closer look and I see they are pretty well arranged in a fairly tight band. Posted a screenshot here. https://postimg.org/image/chi8tbl6t/ Rene |
#14
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HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 02/06/2018 4:01 PM, Paul wrote: smallbore wrote: On 02/05/2018 11:56 PM, Flasherly wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:28:18 +0000 (UTC), dogs wrote: I guess those are 500 GB? My smaller ST3160023A has "3 years, 4 months, and 4 days" Power-On Hours. I think I bought it about 18 years ago. I don't know how long I ran a some 200G Seagates. One SATA and a PATA are left out of possibly three maybe four original units. I've backup data the PATA, at least while MBs continue to provide the interface;- same for the SATA, which is among storage drives that don't see a lot of use, except for a powered USB docking stations. It's almost ludicrous to admit a preferred efficiency I still like about my first SSD, a Samsung 64G unit. My last 500- to 700G-class, a plattered Western Digital HDD, though, still bears a brunt of downloadable material, augmented by a couple other 250G-class SSDs, and organized accordingingly for strategical advancement a SSD provides. The WD will be next to go, placed in the dockting-station queue and replaced by a 500-class SDD. Another thing comes to mind, re the OP and Statistical Abstracts provided by IT WEB "drive rankings". HDD manufacturers are neither unaware of an unfavorable such publicity provides. At times farther research is indicated, e.g. a HDD manufacturer model may be subsequently "hidden", as an identifiable model, within and subject to objectionable characteristics. Another area is updated drive firmware ROM. One of my 2T drives was manufactured to cycle-out power states inordinately. Jacking the power cycles, thereby shortening a drive life span means. . .who needs integrity when spending more of your money on failed drive replacements is vastly more interesting. The manufacturer subsequently released a firmware patch to define a definable maximum for nonintervention of data polling. The firmware was a direct result from a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer by the IT sector. As always, I wonder what you said. Gnome Disk Utility shows me Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded Overall assessment - Disk is OK And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even while three of the numbers in the table look bad. Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me "Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while the Assessment column says OK. Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it. The only reliable indicators are Current Pending and Reallocated. And of those, some drives don't even update Current Pending properly and it always reads zero. Reallocated is thresholded, and the drive looks healthy until a large number of reallocations have occurred. The raw data field goes from around 0-5500 or so, before the drive would be considered "dead". It's the growth rate of that raw data, that gives you some idea how much trouble you're in. If Monday it says 100, Tuesday says 200, it's time to do a backup before it is too late... Raw Errors on a drive are not a problem, because the drive has error correction and an error corrector polynomial. Again, you're not in trouble, until the OS says "CRC error" and then you know that sector/cluster is toast and so is your file resting on it. The first indication of trouble, is running the free version of HDTune and doing a transfer rate curve, and seeing a "bad spot" in the curve for the disk. You will see "trouble" that way, before Reallocated even goes non-zero. That's the most sensitive test, even if occasionally it delivers a false positive. Some drives (for reasons unknown), "perk up" if you write them from end to end. And then when you run another transfer rate curve, they look "OK" again. Weird stuff. Between 42 and 48 here is a "bad spot", but this drive is generally pretty ****ty. Notice the yellow seek dots are way up high too, implying multiple rotations to get the data. I would replace this. http://forum.notebookreview.com/atta...une-jpg.49651/ This is a good drive. Only a couple of yellow dots are out-of-band. And the transfer curve, from outer diameter to inner diameter, shows the normal "zoned recording" pattern. The recording method varies a bit, from zone to zone, giving a stair-step curve. I would "give this drive to my mom" it's so nice. https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles...085804529l.jpg The free version of HDTune is here. This version is now ten years old, but it still works, and is all you need for this work. http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe Paul Hi Paul, I had never paid much attention to the band of yellow dots, not knowing exactly what they signify. So I took a closer look and I see they are pretty well arranged in a fairly tight band. Posted a screenshot here. https://postimg.org/image/chi8tbl6t/ Rene It's some kind of seek test, and I normally don't pay too much attention to it. On an SSD, that band of yellow dots settles right to the bottom :-) Paul |
#15
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HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 12:43:38 -0800, smallbore
wrote: As always, I wonder what you said. Basically, I've a disk which parks the head. As in the blink of an eye. The manufacturer, at least for my drive, released firmware to allow the user to flash for 300 seconds' park-it-time, instead of *their* ROM-locked default, something ridiculous, like 10 seconds. And the manufacturer only did it because of a class action lawsuit. What they then did, is to change manufacturing to "hide", from the buyer, the identifiers to drives that prematurely parked from those, otherwise identical drives, that didn't. Gnome Disk Utility shows me Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded Overall assessment - Disk is OK And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even while three of the numbers in the table look bad. Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me "Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while the Assessment column says OK. Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it. When is buying a drive, one which is to be presumed not to fail, whether for a determinate based on reviews, software analysis, ever less than a bit more like throwing a die for crap? Rather than blame my lazy ass, because I've some of a tendency (Ockham's) not to go looking for problems until they bite it. Besides easier, probability conclusively substantiates as axiomatic, to be a lazy ass, provided I can get off it, for not a moment longer than necessary to keep an extra backup of anything worth keeping;- thereby rendering chance, then equated to plugging in, powering up one of either of two hard discs, accommodating identical data sets, such to say, in an otherwise idealistic computer world, that both drives will fail to render the data as intelligible. Hopefully, I have by now achieved, tolerably to stimulate that sensation of particular beingness, you apparently wish to confound. - Bet. You have no choice;- you're in the game. -Blaise Pascal |
#16
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HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade
On 02/06/2018 07:12 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 12:43:38 -0800, smallbore wrote: As always, I wonder what you said. Basically, I've a disk which parks the head. As in the blink of an eye. The manufacturer, at least for my drive, released firmware to allow the user to flash for 300 seconds' park-it-time, instead of *their* ROM-locked default, something ridiculous, like 10 seconds. And the manufacturer only did it because of a class action lawsuit. What they then did, is to change manufacturing to "hide", from the buyer, the identifiers to drives that prematurely parked from those, otherwise identical drives, that didn't. Ah. I didn't find a linux-alternative for the HDTune that Paul suggested, but I came across this. __________ *change the idle3 timer of recent Western Digital Hard Disk Drives* Idle3-tools provides a linux/unix utility that can disable, get and set the value of the infamous idle3 timer found on recent Western Digital Hard Disk Drives. It can be used as an alternative to the official wdidle3.exe proprietary utility, without the need to reboot in a DOS environment. A power off/on cycle of the drive will still be mandatory for new settings to be taken into account. Modern Western Digital "Green" Drives include the Intellipark feature that stops the disk when not in use. Unfortunately, the default timer setting is not perfect on linux/unix systems, including many NAS, and leads to a dramatic increase of the Load Cycle Count value (SMART attribute #193). With the default timer setting, the drive will spin down *every eight seconds* if idle and this may get the spindle motor to burn out in a few months or so. If you have a Western Digital EADS or EARS drive, please check you SMART information before it's too late by running the following command: sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda | grep "^193" If the Load cycle count (which is in the last column) exceeds 1000, you're probably affected by the idle3 timer problem. __________ |
#17
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HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 22:30:32 -0800, smallbore
wrote: If you have a Western Digital EADS or EARS drive, please check you SMART information before it's too late by running the following command: sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda | grep "^193" If the Load cycle count (which is in the last column) exceeds 1000, you're probably affected by the idle3 timer problem. Ah, yes. It's all suddenly coming back, flooding into my mind now. Thanks, guy. (Seems I bought that drive 3 years ago.) I see I wasn't customarily exaggerating 8 seconds of nonsense at an off-the-cuff 10secs. And that it's now risen up to Infamous status. DOS is second nature to me, along with a lot of *NIXDOS programming ports, so I wouldn't have thought twice, which I did, to max it out for 300secs. from wdidle3.exe. ...Then, just to stomp it in, extra good, I partitioned a token partition on that drive and defined it for where Winderz's virtual swap file resides. |
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