P4C800-E-Deluxe - PCI PnP

Mounted my first computer last week-end. So I will probably drop here often
to benefit from your experience.

Finally a positive experience. I used to be a Dell customer, until I got
tired of being stuck with computers I can't really upgrade to get more value
out of these. And the annoyance to be forced to order a monitor, speakers,
etc. from them each time I buy a new computer. And the parts that I found
too late to be defectuous (like their Soundblaster LIVE or 9700 TX, etc.) I
randomly found an article talking about how easy it is to make your own
machine, so it convinced me. Now I build my own machine to my own spec. I
can make it low noise if this is what I wish. I can get more power by
overcloking if I wish. And it's really fun to play with that stuff.

So here how it went. After everything was put together, it didn't power on.
No beep, nothing, although the green LED on the motherboard was on, and the
chassis fan was on, the rest was dead. Finally, I changed the Antec
Truepower 330W power supply to an Antec Truepower 480W power supply and then
it worked all fine. There was only the bare minimum in the machine, DVD
drive, hard disk, P4C 3GHz, 1 GB OCZ memory.

First question: is the Antec 330W defect, or is it just that it's not
powerful enough for the system? I rather think it's defect, but if someone
can confirm.

Second question: what should be the value for the "Plug and Play OS" setting
in the BIOS? I left it at "No", and I'm wondering if it's correct. I
installed XP Pro without a glitch. I suspect XP takes care of the Plug and
Play stuff, but I'm not sure.

Third question: I can't stand that floppy disks are still in use nowaday. So
I didn't install one, didn't buy one. Will I need it down the road or can I
live without it, even in the case I need to flash the BIOS in the even of a
badluck? Can I have an emergency CD to boot from rather than a floppy disk?

Fourth question: the stock heat sink that came with the P4C 3GHz is rather
noisy. I ordered a Zalman CNPS7000-ALCU, which should arrive this week. Now,
I welcome any suggestion as to how to remove the stock heat sink. It doesn't
look like I can remove it as easily as I put it in. The last thing I want is
to damage the CPU or motherboard, in which case my decision to make my own
machine would suddenly become not such a great idea, pricewise. Any pointer
to do this safely will be appreciated.

Tx all,
Ray.

Replied in-line:

povmec wrote:

First question: is the Antec 330W defect, or is it just that it's not
powerful enough for the system? I rather think it's defect, but if someone
can confirm.

IMO, 330 Watt is somewhat puny for an Intel P4 system.
Some places recommend the minimum for a P4 CPU to be
350 Watts.

Second question: what should be the value for the "Plug and Play OS" setting
in the BIOS? I left it at "No", and I'm wondering if it's correct. I
installed XP Pro without a glitch. I suspect XP takes care of the Plug and
Play stuff, but I'm not sure.

IIRC, the manual says not to enable the PnP OS setting
for Windows XP. Windows XP can take care of itself and
not rely on the bios PnP configuration utility.

Third question: I can't stand that floppy disks are still in use nowaday. So
I didn't install one, didn't buy one. Will I need it down the road or can I
live without it, even in the case I need to flash the BIOS in the even of a
badluck? Can I have an emergency CD to boot from rather than a floppy disk?

Might regret this one. Floppy disk drives are cheap and
there is a FDD controller on the motherboard. Good backup
if unable to boot the computer from the cdrom drive when
the HD fails.

Fourth question: the stock heat sink that came with the P4C 3GHz is rather
noisy. I ordered a Zalman CNPS7000-ALCU, which should arrive this week. Now,
I welcome any suggestion as to how to remove the stock heat sink. It doesn't
look like I can remove it as easily as I put it in. The last thing I want is
to damage the CPU or motherboard, in which case my decision to make my own
machine would suddenly become not such a great idea, pricewise. Any pointer
to do this safely will be appreciated.

Very carefully. Perhaps already too late. The first
trick is to remove the CPU from its socket, especially
if the release lever is already trapped under the heat
sink. The second trick is to separate the heat sink from
the heat slug on the CPU and the bonding between them is
pretty good...the reason for good heat transfer. Is the
problem the fan noise? If so, then replace just the fan.

HTH & GL.

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:33:26 -0700, Ghostrider
wrote:


Replied in-line:

povmec wrote:

First question: is the Antec 330W defect, or is it just that it's not
powerful enough for the system? I rather think it's defect, but if someone
can confirm.

IMO, 330 Watt is somewhat puny for an Intel P4 system.
Some places recommend the minimum for a P4 CPU to be
350 Watts.

Second question: what should be the value for the "Plug and Play OS" setting
in the BIOS? I left it at "No", and I'm wondering if it's correct. I
installed XP Pro without a glitch. I suspect XP takes care of the Plug and
Play stuff, but I'm not sure.

IIRC, the manual says not to enable the PnP OS setting
for Windows XP. Windows XP can take care of itself and
not rely on the bios PnP configuration utility.
This BIOS setting should be left at the default, "No," for all
versions of Windows, not just for XP.

Third question: I can't stand that floppy disks are still in use nowaday. So
I didn't install one, didn't buy one. Will I need it down the road or can I
live without it, even in the case I need to flash the BIOS in the even of a
badluck? Can I have an emergency CD to boot from rather than a floppy disk?

Might regret this one. Floppy disk drives are cheap and
there is a FDD controller on the motherboard. Good backup
if unable to boot the computer from the cdrom drive when
the HD fails.

Fourth question: the stock heat sink that came with the P4C 3GHz is rather
noisy. I ordered a Zalman CNPS7000-ALCU, which should arrive this week. Now,
I welcome any suggestion as to how to remove the stock heat sink. It doesn't
look like I can remove it as easily as I put it in. The last thing I want is
to damage the CPU or motherboard, in which case my decision to make my own
machine would suddenly become not such a great idea, pricewise. Any pointer
to do this safely will be appreciated.

Very carefully. Perhaps already too late. The first
trick is to remove the CPU from its socket, especially
if the release lever is already trapped under the heat
sink. The second trick is to separate the heat sink from
the heat slug on the CPU and the bonding between them is
pretty good...the reason for good heat transfer. Is the
problem the fan noise? If so, then replace just the fan.

Agree wholeheartedly. The time to install the CNPS7000 was BEFORE you
installed the motherboard into the case and connected everything. In
your favor is the fact that the motherboard does not have to be
outside the case to install this particular heatsink as it does for
many MB-HS combinations. Be aware that you are going to have to get
all the thermal grease from the first installation OFF the CPU before
reapplying fresh Arctic Silver for the installation of the CNPS7000.
Different people recommend different solvents for this. I've had good
luck with isopropyl alcohol followed by a little acetone, but no
matter what you use, you will need to be meticulous.
The take-home message: You should have waited until the CNPS7000
arrived before assembling this computer. That said, I hope the switch
goes smoothly for you. The CNPS7000 is a masterpiece of a quiet
heatsink.

Ron

SNIP

Confused on this item--on page 4-22 of the manual, it states that if it is
not enabled (when set to [NO]) the BIOS configures all of the PnP devices in
this system and when it is enabled (when set to [YES]), WinXP configures all
PnP devices = did I read this wrong or interpret it wrong?

IIRC, the manual says not to enable the PnP OS setting
for Windows XP. Windows XP can take care of itself and
not rely on the bios PnP configuration utility.

Third question: I can't stand that floppy disks are still in use
nowaday. So
I didn't install one, didn't buy one. Will I need it down the road or
can I
live without it, even in the case I need to flash the BIOS in the even
of a
badluck? Can I have an emergency CD to boot from rather than a floppy
disk?

Might regret this one. Floppy disk drives are cheap and
there is a FDD controller on the motherboard. Good backup
if unable to boot the computer from the cdrom drive when
the HD fails.

Agree--for $15, the addition of a FD is worth it even if it is a dinosaur.

SNIP

Good luck

MikeSp

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:25:43 -0500, "Michael S."
wrote:

SNIP

Confused on this item--on page 4-22 of the manual, it states that if it is
not enabled (when set to [NO]) the BIOS configures all of the PnP devices in
this system and when it is enabled (when set to [YES]), WinXP configures all
PnP devices = did I read this wrong or interpret it wrong?

This setting is very confusing, but the Windows Knowledge Base says to
leave it set at "no." That's a VERY widespread consensus among users,
as well. It turns out that in XP, the OS usually ignores the device
database from the BIOS, regardless of this BIOS setting. Many newbies
think that the BIOS is asking if there is a PnP-capable OS installed,
and want to answer, "yes," but that's not the question that's being
asked. For more details, see Adrian Rojak's "The Definitive
BIOS Optimization Guide" at www.rojakpot.com. Enter the free version
of the Guide and scroll all the way to the last entry "PNP OS
Installed."
Long story short: If you have an ACPI MB/BIOS and any Windows from 98
on, leave this setting at "No."

snip
Ron

In article , "povmec"
wrote:

Mounted my first computer last week-end. So I will probably drop here often
to benefit from your experience.

Finally a positive experience. I used to be a Dell customer, until I got
tired of being stuck with computers I can't really upgrade to get more value
out of these. And the annoyance to be forced to order a monitor, speakers,
etc. from them each time I buy a new computer. And the parts that I found
too late to be defectuous (like their Soundblaster LIVE or 9700 TX, etc.) I
randomly found an article talking about how easy it is to make your own
machine, so it convinced me. Now I build my own machine to my own spec. I
can make it low noise if this is what I wish. I can get more power by
overcloking if I wish. And it's really fun to play with that stuff.

So here how it went. After everything was put together, it didn't power on.
No beep, nothing, although the green LED on the motherboard was on, and the
chassis fan was on, the rest was dead. Finally, I changed the Antec
Truepower 330W power supply to an Antec Truepower 480W power supply and then
it worked all fine. There was only the bare minimum in the machine, DVD
drive, hard disk, P4C 3GHz, 1 GB OCZ memory.

First question: is the Antec 330W defect, or is it just that it's not
powerful enough for the system? I rather think it's defect, but if someone
can confirm.
snip
Tx all,
Ray.

VOLTAGE +12V +5V +3.3V -5V -12V +5VSB
TRUE330 17A 30A 28A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A
TRUE380 18A 35A 28A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A
TRUE430 20A 36A 28A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A
TRUE480 22A 38A 30A 1.5A 1.0A 2.0A
TRUE550 24A 40A 32A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A

Power supplies are rated by the current on each output rail. There
is 17A on +12V, which should be plenty for a basic build. My vote is
the original 330W is defective. I presume in both cases, you were
careful to connect the 2x2 ATX 12V connector to the motherboard, as
your symptoms are consistent with that power plug not being connected.
A P4 or an Athlon64 processor has two power plugs, the normal 20 pin
plus the smaller 2x2 power plug.

Notice how 12*17 + 5*30 + 3.3*28 = 446.4W . What that means is,
with the Antec, you can load one output rail heavily, the others
not at their max, and it should still work. The True330 would
work on a computer that draws most of its power from +5V, or
like in your current situation, draws heavily from +12V. The
total consumption of your computer could be in the 200W range, so
it shouldn't be too much for the 330W. (Exact numbers depend on
your video card.)

HTH,
Paul

Thanks for the clarification Ron!! That'l teach me to read a manual for a
change;-)

MikeSp
---------------------
"Milleron" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:25:43 -0500, "Michael S."
wrote:

SNIP

Confused on this item--on page 4-22 of the manual, it states that if it
is
not enabled (when set to [NO]) the BIOS configures all of the PnP devices
in
this system and when it is enabled (when set to [YES]), WinXP configures
all
PnP devices = did I read this wrong or interpret it wrong?

This setting is very confusing, but the Windows Knowledge Base says to
leave it set at "no." That's a VERY widespread consensus among users,
as well. It turns out that in XP, the OS usually ignores the device
database from the BIOS, regardless of this BIOS setting. Many newbies
think that the BIOS is asking if there is a PnP-capable OS installed,
and want to answer, "yes," but that's not the question that's being
asked. For more details, see Adrian Rojak's "The Definitive
BIOS Optimization Guide" at www.rojakpot.com. Enter the free version
of the Guide and scroll all the way to the last entry "PNP OS
Installed."
Long story short: If you have an ACPI MB/BIOS and any Windows from 98
on, leave this setting at "No."

snip
Ron

Tx for your answer. It seems I will have to return this power supply then.
In the end I tried a very basic configuration, only motherboard, memory and
hard disk, and it was still not booting, no beep, no CPU fan -although I
could see the temperature of the northbridge and cpu raising using case's
probes.

"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "povmec"
wrote:

Mounted my first computer last week-end. So I will probably drop here
often
to benefit from your experience.

Finally a positive experience. I used to be a Dell customer, until I got
tired of being stuck with computers I can't really upgrade to get more
value
out of these. And the annoyance to be forced to order a monitor,
speakers,
etc. from them each time I buy a new computer. And the parts that I
found
too late to be defectuous (like their Soundblaster LIVE or 9700 TX,
etc.) I
randomly found an article talking about how easy it is to make your own
machine, so it convinced me. Now I build my own machine to my own spec.
I
can make it low noise if this is what I wish. I can get more power by
overcloking if I wish. And it's really fun to play with that stuff.

So here how it went. After everything was put together, it didn't power
on.
No beep, nothing, although the green LED on the motherboard was on, and
the
chassis fan was on, the rest was dead. Finally, I changed the Antec
Truepower 330W power supply to an Antec Truepower 480W power supply and
then
it worked all fine. There was only the bare minimum in the machine, DVD
drive, hard disk, P4C 3GHz, 1 GB OCZ memory.

First question: is the Antec 330W defect, or is it just that it's not
powerful enough for the system? I rather think it's defect, but if
someone
can confirm.
snip
Tx all,
Ray.

VOLTAGE +12V +5V +3.3V -5V -12V +5VSB
TRUE330 17A 30A 28A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A
TRUE380 18A 35A 28A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A
TRUE430 20A 36A 28A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A
TRUE480 22A 38A 30A 1.5A 1.0A 2.0A
TRUE550 24A 40A 32A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A

Power supplies are rated by the current on each output rail. There
is 17A on +12V, which should be plenty for a basic build. My vote is
the original 330W is defective. I presume in both cases, you were
careful to connect the 2x2 ATX 12V connector to the motherboard, as
your symptoms are consistent with that power plug not being connected.
A P4 or an Athlon64 processor has two power plugs, the normal 20 pin
plus the smaller 2x2 power plug.

Notice how 12*17 + 5*30 + 3.3*28 = 446.4W . What that means is,
with the Antec, you can load one output rail heavily, the others
not at their max, and it should still work. The True330 would
work on a computer that draws most of its power from +5V, or
like in your current situation, draws heavily from +12V. The
total consumption of your computer could be in the 200W range, so
it shouldn't be too much for the 330W. (Exact numbers depend on
your video card.)

HTH,
Paul

Tx all for the answers.

I wish I had the patience to wait for the Zalman heat sink, but it was such
a rainy day...


"Milleron" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:33:26 -0700, Ghostrider
wrote:


Replied in-line:

povmec wrote:

First question: is the Antec 330W defect, or is it just that it's not
powerful enough for the system? I rather think it's defect, but if
someone
can confirm.

IMO, 330 Watt is somewhat puny for an Intel P4 system.
Some places recommend the minimum for a P4 CPU to be
350 Watts.

Second question: what should be the value for the "Plug and Play OS"
setting
in the BIOS? I left it at "No", and I'm wondering if it's correct. I
installed XP Pro without a glitch. I suspect XP takes care of the Plug
and
Play stuff, but I'm not sure.

IIRC, the manual says not to enable the PnP OS setting
for Windows XP. Windows XP can take care of itself and
not rely on the bios PnP configuration utility.
This BIOS setting should be left at the default, "No," for all
versions of Windows, not just for XP.

Third question: I can't stand that floppy disks are still in use
nowaday. So
I didn't install one, didn't buy one. Will I need it down the road or
can I
live without it, even in the case I need to flash the BIOS in the even
of a
badluck? Can I have an emergency CD to boot from rather than a floppy
disk?

Might regret this one. Floppy disk drives are cheap and
there is a FDD controller on the motherboard. Good backup
if unable to boot the computer from the cdrom drive when
the HD fails.

Fourth question: the stock heat sink that came with the P4C 3GHz is
rather
noisy. I ordered a Zalman CNPS7000-ALCU, which should arrive this week.
Now,
I welcome any suggestion as to how to remove the stock heat sink. It
doesn't
look like I can remove it as easily as I put it in. The last thing I
want is
to damage the CPU or motherboard, in which case my decision to make my
own
machine would suddenly become not such a great idea, pricewise. Any
pointer
to do this safely will be appreciated.

Very carefully. Perhaps already too late. The first
trick is to remove the CPU from its socket, especially
if the release lever is already trapped under the heat
sink. The second trick is to separate the heat sink from
the heat slug on the CPU and the bonding between them is
pretty good...the reason for good heat transfer. Is the
problem the fan noise? If so, then replace just the fan.

Agree wholeheartedly. The time to install the CNPS7000 was BEFORE you
installed the motherboard into the case and connected everything. In
your favor is the fact that the motherboard does not have to be
outside the case to install this particular heatsink as it does for
many MB-HS combinations. Be aware that you are going to have to get
all the thermal grease from the first installation OFF the CPU before
reapplying fresh Arctic Silver for the installation of the CNPS7000.
Different people recommend different solvents for this. I've had good
luck with isopropyl alcohol followed by a little acetone, but no
matter what you use, you will need to be meticulous.
The take-home message: You should have waited until the CNPS7000
arrived before assembling this computer. That said, I hope the switch
goes smoothly for you. The CNPS7000 is a masterpiece of a quiet
heatsink.

Ron