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Continued: Putting together a Lower-Mid End Server



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 19th 04, 08:06 AM
Arifi Koseoglu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Continued: Putting together a Lower-Mid End Server

Hello again, and thanks for all the information. I think I will go for a
single-CPU and IDE or SATA RAID.

New Questions:
1. What is the difference between the 3 P4C800 models? (P4C800 - P4C800
Deluxe - P4C800-E) I could not conclude anything from the specs...
2. Similarly, what is the difference between the P4P800 and P4P800-Deluxe
3. How does the P4R800-V Deluxe Rank amont the ones above?
4. The disks will probably be Seagate ST3160023AS Barracuda 7200.7 if at the
end we go with SATA and not IDE. (and not the Raptors ftom WD due to cost
reasons). Does this justify using SATA or would regular IDE RAID (mirroring)
perform almost the same?

Again, many thanks in advance and cheers,
-arifi


"Tim" wrote in message ...
Arifi,

Any of the most recent P4 boards should be OK.
As Roger says, if you want duals you will have to go Xeon or Opteron.

Running perfmon is a very good idea: try and get to know it well enough to
trace the load placed by SQL Server vs. the rest.
Normally SQL Server will place a small load only - if the DB is well
designed and has proper indexes. It is quite possible for a SQL Server DB

to
show disgusting performance if it runs with poor indexes, poor statistics
(poor mans indexes), or is badly designed.

The point is: for SQL Server a 1.6GHz machine should be overkill in the
extreme particularly with that amount of memory - a 2.x GHz machine will

be
95% or more idle 95% or more of the time (both should be). I have a

customer
on dual Pentium Pros still with 25 users plodding along.

The indexing workload is an unknown. If it is from documents your staff
create and the occasional one received then this too should be light once
the indexes are built. On the other hand if you receive them in volume or
they are odd or.... who knows? Perfmon will tell you.

A dual is probably overkill, but it is a nice idea. SQL Server runs
beautifully on duals (quads etc) and gives an extremely smooth experience.
Given the grunt of the current P4 chips, a dual is probably of little
benefit for the expenditure. Save the dosh and get a good tape backup

system
for OFF SITE security. (customer got burgled recently, server stolen).

Essential:

Mirrored Drives
Don't sell yourself short on RAM - each MB of ram is 1 MB less of disc

IO's
somewhere. 1GB should be enough........

Backup System? NTBackup should be OK (disc to disc or disc to tape). You

can
create scheduled backups to backup your SQL Server DB's disc to disc then
copy the backups to tape. If you had Exchange in there then NT Backup will
hook directly into that as well. There are a lot of backup software

products
out the buy one if you can afford one AFTER you have justified and
purchased a tape drive that can do a 100% copy of your system to tape

every
day onto one tape & take it off site. Be aware tho, people have had just

as
much trouble with 3rd party 'reputable' backup products trying to restore
Windows 2000 or later systems as they have had with NT Backup - worth
rehearsing if you have time.

So the obvious statement: if you don't have SBS2000 or later and are

buying
server software, then look at it now as you get Exchange and ISA Server

more
or less for nothing. It is easy to set up (I say tongue in cheek - there

is
an excellent MS newsgroup for it).

Gigabit Ethernet! Even if your switch doesn't support it yet 'cos the rest
of the world will catch up.

Since it is a server, then running 24 x 7 is likely, so consider ECC

memory.
ECC - reliability against single bit memory failures which in 1GB happen
more often than you would like.
ECC - also easier to add more memory later (I think it has to be

registered
ECC for that to happen).

The raptor drives work great as a mirror on SATA. If you got a P4C800 this
would deliver the goods as it supports ECC too, has gigabit ethernet and
SATA raid.

I have some customers running SBS2000 with Exchange, SQL Server, ISA

Server
(firewall), file sharing. One is on a P4P800 with mirrored raptors (1GB
RAM), another mirrored WD IDE Discs. Both ECC. All Asus.

- Tim




"Arifi Koseoglu" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone,

I am planning to "build" a "Server" for my small office use and need

some
advice. One thing I know is that the Mobo will be Asus (no different

brand
since the SP3G).

The outline of the configuration in my mind is like:

Single CPU in a dual-ready system.
1G DDR (possibly will end up with 2G)
Serial ATA in mirroring RAID config. (only reason for NOT SCSI: Too
expensive)
Intel (or AMD ??) cpu

Which ASUS MOBO? Which ASUS/Other components ?

The server will be running MSSQL server on WIndows 2000 or 2003 Server,

and
storing + indexing user documents. ( 10 users)

Many thanks in advance,
-arifi







  #2  
Old February 19th 04, 04:30 PM
MaH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

P4C800 "E" would IMHO be preferable because of the CSA funktion.
Which keeps the NIC off the IDE-bus.
For example, whem my computer (with said deluxe MB) sends about 50-55 Mb/s
(megabyte, not megabit)
through the NIC CPU utilization stays under 5%.
Deluxe I belive is a fully equipped board whith LOTS of cables and stuff
included.



"Arifi Koseoglu" skrev i meddelandet
...
Hello again, and thanks for all the information. I think I will go for a
single-CPU and IDE or SATA RAID.

New Questions:
1. What is the difference between the 3 P4C800 models? (P4C800 - P4C800
Deluxe - P4C800-E) I could not conclude anything from the specs...
2. Similarly, what is the difference between the P4P800 and P4P800-Deluxe
3. How does the P4R800-V Deluxe Rank amont the ones above?
4. The disks will probably be Seagate ST3160023AS Barracuda 7200.7 if at

the
end we go with SATA and not IDE. (and not the Raptors ftom WD due to cost
reasons). Does this justify using SATA or would regular IDE RAID

(mirroring)
perform almost the same?

Again, many thanks in advance and cheers,
-arifi


"Tim" wrote in message

...
Arifi,

Any of the most recent P4 boards should be OK.
As Roger says, if you want duals you will have to go Xeon or Opteron.

Running perfmon is a very good idea: try and get to know it well enough

to
trace the load placed by SQL Server vs. the rest.
Normally SQL Server will place a small load only - if the DB is well
designed and has proper indexes. It is quite possible for a SQL Server

DB
to
show disgusting performance if it runs with poor indexes, poor

statistics
(poor mans indexes), or is badly designed.

The point is: for SQL Server a 1.6GHz machine should be overkill in the
extreme particularly with that amount of memory - a 2.x GHz machine will

be
95% or more idle 95% or more of the time (both should be). I have a

customer
on dual Pentium Pros still with 25 users plodding along.

The indexing workload is an unknown. If it is from documents your staff
create and the occasional one received then this too should be light

once
the indexes are built. On the other hand if you receive them in volume

or
they are odd or.... who knows? Perfmon will tell you.

A dual is probably overkill, but it is a nice idea. SQL Server runs
beautifully on duals (quads etc) and gives an extremely smooth

experience.
Given the grunt of the current P4 chips, a dual is probably of little
benefit for the expenditure. Save the dosh and get a good tape backup

system
for OFF SITE security. (customer got burgled recently, server stolen).

Essential:

Mirrored Drives
Don't sell yourself short on RAM - each MB of ram is 1 MB less of disc

IO's
somewhere. 1GB should be enough........

Backup System? NTBackup should be OK (disc to disc or disc to tape). You

can
create scheduled backups to backup your SQL Server DB's disc to disc

then
copy the backups to tape. If you had Exchange in there then NT Backup

will
hook directly into that as well. There are a lot of backup software

products
out the buy one if you can afford one AFTER you have justified and
purchased a tape drive that can do a 100% copy of your system to tape

every
day onto one tape & take it off site. Be aware tho, people have had just

as
much trouble with 3rd party 'reputable' backup products trying to

restore
Windows 2000 or later systems as they have had with NT Backup - worth
rehearsing if you have time.

So the obvious statement: if you don't have SBS2000 or later and are

buying
server software, then look at it now as you get Exchange and ISA Server

more
or less for nothing. It is easy to set up (I say tongue in cheek - there

is
an excellent MS newsgroup for it).

Gigabit Ethernet! Even if your switch doesn't support it yet 'cos the

rest
of the world will catch up.

Since it is a server, then running 24 x 7 is likely, so consider ECC

memory.
ECC - reliability against single bit memory failures which in 1GB

happen
more often than you would like.
ECC - also easier to add more memory later (I think it has to be

registered
ECC for that to happen).

The raptor drives work great as a mirror on SATA. If you got a P4C800

this
would deliver the goods as it supports ECC too, has gigabit ethernet and
SATA raid.

I have some customers running SBS2000 with Exchange, SQL Server, ISA

Server
(firewall), file sharing. One is on a P4P800 with mirrored raptors (1GB
RAM), another mirrored WD IDE Discs. Both ECC. All Asus.

- Tim




"Arifi Koseoglu" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone,

I am planning to "build" a "Server" for my small office use and need

some
advice. One thing I know is that the Mobo will be Asus (no different

brand
since the SP3G).

The outline of the configuration in my mind is like:

Single CPU in a dual-ready system.
1G DDR (possibly will end up with 2G)
Serial ATA in mirroring RAID config. (only reason for NOT SCSI: Too
expensive)
Intel (or AMD ??) cpu

Which ASUS MOBO? Which ASUS/Other components ?

The server will be running MSSQL server on WIndows 2000 or 2003

Server,
and
storing + indexing user documents. ( 10 users)

Many thanks in advance,
-arifi









  #3  
Old February 20th 04, 01:34 PM
Arifi Koseoglu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks from heart to everyone for all the detailed info and patience.

I need two more answers before I stop bothering you all with my questions on
this topic:

The built-in SATA RAID into i875P(P4C800) and i865PE(P4P800):

The overview page
(http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/sock...0/overview.htm for the
P4P800) on Asus' web site seem to indicate that it supports RAID 0
(striping) and 1 (mirroring).
However the specification pages
(http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4P800&langs=09 for the P4P800) say
that it only supports RAID 0, and on winXP only - which is of no use for me.

What is the truth? Do both of these chipsets provide RAID1 ? If yes, I will
settle for the NON-DELUXE versions and have some extra money to spend
somewhere else (the only choice remaining being to ECC(875) or not to
ECC(865)).

Ant the other question is what does ECC really buy me in real life?

Cheers and many many thanks in advance again,
-arifi






"MaH" wrote in message
...
P4C800 "E" would IMHO be preferable because of the CSA funktion.
Which keeps the NIC off the IDE-bus.
For example, whem my computer (with said deluxe MB) sends about 50-55 Mb/s
(megabyte, not megabit)
through the NIC CPU utilization stays under 5%.
Deluxe I belive is a fully equipped board whith LOTS of cables and stuff
included.



"Arifi Koseoglu" skrev i meddelandet
...
Hello again, and thanks for all the information. I think I will go for a
single-CPU and IDE or SATA RAID.

New Questions:
1. What is the difference between the 3 P4C800 models? (P4C800 - P4C800
Deluxe - P4C800-E) I could not conclude anything from the specs...
2. Similarly, what is the difference between the P4P800 and

P4P800-Deluxe
3. How does the P4R800-V Deluxe Rank amont the ones above?
4. The disks will probably be Seagate ST3160023AS Barracuda 7200.7 if at

the
end we go with SATA and not IDE. (and not the Raptors ftom WD due to

cost
reasons). Does this justify using SATA or would regular IDE RAID

(mirroring)
perform almost the same?

Again, many thanks in advance and cheers,
-arifi


"Tim" wrote in message

...
Arifi,

Any of the most recent P4 boards should be OK.
As Roger says, if you want duals you will have to go Xeon or Opteron.

Running perfmon is a very good idea: try and get to know it well

enough
to
trace the load placed by SQL Server vs. the rest.
Normally SQL Server will place a small load only - if the DB is well
designed and has proper indexes. It is quite possible for a SQL Server

DB
to
show disgusting performance if it runs with poor indexes, poor

statistics
(poor mans indexes), or is badly designed.

The point is: for SQL Server a 1.6GHz machine should be overkill in

the
extreme particularly with that amount of memory - a 2.x GHz machine

will
be
95% or more idle 95% or more of the time (both should be). I have a

customer
on dual Pentium Pros still with 25 users plodding along.

The indexing workload is an unknown. If it is from documents your

staff
create and the occasional one received then this too should be light

once
the indexes are built. On the other hand if you receive them in volume

or
they are odd or.... who knows? Perfmon will tell you.

A dual is probably overkill, but it is a nice idea. SQL Server runs
beautifully on duals (quads etc) and gives an extremely smooth

experience.
Given the grunt of the current P4 chips, a dual is probably of little
benefit for the expenditure. Save the dosh and get a good tape backup

system
for OFF SITE security. (customer got burgled recently, server stolen).

Essential:

Mirrored Drives
Don't sell yourself short on RAM - each MB of ram is 1 MB less of disc

IO's
somewhere. 1GB should be enough........

Backup System? NTBackup should be OK (disc to disc or disc to tape).

You
can
create scheduled backups to backup your SQL Server DB's disc to disc

then
copy the backups to tape. If you had Exchange in there then NT Backup

will
hook directly into that as well. There are a lot of backup software

products
out the buy one if you can afford one AFTER you have justified and
purchased a tape drive that can do a 100% copy of your system to tape

every
day onto one tape & take it off site. Be aware tho, people have had

just
as
much trouble with 3rd party 'reputable' backup products trying to

restore
Windows 2000 or later systems as they have had with NT Backup - worth
rehearsing if you have time.

So the obvious statement: if you don't have SBS2000 or later and are

buying
server software, then look at it now as you get Exchange and ISA

Server
more
or less for nothing. It is easy to set up (I say tongue in cheek -

there
is
an excellent MS newsgroup for it).

Gigabit Ethernet! Even if your switch doesn't support it yet 'cos the

rest
of the world will catch up.

Since it is a server, then running 24 x 7 is likely, so consider ECC

memory.
ECC - reliability against single bit memory failures which in 1GB

happen
more often than you would like.
ECC - also easier to add more memory later (I think it has to be

registered
ECC for that to happen).

The raptor drives work great as a mirror on SATA. If you got a P4C800

this
would deliver the goods as it supports ECC too, has gigabit ethernet

and
SATA raid.

I have some customers running SBS2000 with Exchange, SQL Server, ISA

Server
(firewall), file sharing. One is on a P4P800 with mirrored raptors

(1GB
RAM), another mirrored WD IDE Discs. Both ECC. All Asus.

- Tim




"Arifi Koseoglu" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone,

I am planning to "build" a "Server" for my small office use and need

some
advice. One thing I know is that the Mobo will be Asus (no different

brand
since the SP3G).

The outline of the configuration in my mind is like:

Single CPU in a dual-ready system.
1G DDR (possibly will end up with 2G)
Serial ATA in mirroring RAID config. (only reason for NOT SCSI: Too
expensive)
Intel (or AMD ??) cpu

Which ASUS MOBO? Which ASUS/Other components ?

The server will be running MSSQL server on WIndows 2000 or 2003

Server,
and
storing + indexing user documents. ( 10 users)

Many thanks in advance,
-arifi











 




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