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What's the difference between these two memories ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 11th 18, 01:23 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...d-hx318c10fr-4
https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...k-hx318c10fb-4

Other than the price ?

I downloaded the Kingston specs

https://cdn.cnetcontent.com/07/e9/07...f10cf84f67.pdf

Which says:

Latency CL9-11
Voltage 1.35V, 1.5V

It does not help at all in knowing if I can add a stick or
two.

My current memory is KHX1866C10D3/4G
Number of banks 8
Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts
(CPU-Z output)
TIA
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #2  
Old December 11th 18, 03:43 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

Shadow wrote:
https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...d-hx318c10fr-4
https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...k-hx318c10fb-4

Other than the price ?

I downloaded the Kingston specs

https://cdn.cnetcontent.com/07/e9/07...f10cf84f67.pdf

Which says:

Latency CL9-11
Voltage 1.35V, 1.5V

It does not help at all in knowing if I can add a stick or
two.

My current memory is KHX1866C10D3/4G
Number of banks 8
Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts
(CPU-Z output)
TIA
[]'s


Kingston has specs right on their own web site.

50758 HX318C10FR/4 CAS10 1866 1.35V RS220
50759 HX318C10FB/4 CAS10 1866 1.5V RS247

The available information only lists 1.5V products.

https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX318C10FR_4.pdf

The article here suggests the heat spreader color
is for "taste" in PC construction. Four colors are
available in all. The heat spreader color is not intended
as a voltage indicator.

https://www.kingston.com/en/company/press/article/7141

If your retailer is to be believed, then I would
select the 1.5V product to match the 1.5V product I
already have.

Someone had a problem with this very thing in a post
about two days ago. System had two 1.5V DIMMs, poster
added two 1.35V DIMMs. The 1.35V DIMMs (DDR3L) are supposed to
work in 1.5V system, and that's why the keying on the
edgecard of the DIMM allows insertion. However, the
system of the poster would not work.

CH0 CH1 Note: all DIMMs are 4GB

1.5V ---- 1.5V ---- (Dual channel mode)
Failed to POST...
1.35V ---- 1.35V ----

For reasons known only to the BIOS logic, this worked.

CH0 CH1

1.5V ---- 1.35V ---- (Dual channel mode)
Works...
1.5V ---- 1.35V ----

Both of these setups run *all* slots at 1.5V.
The sticks are never "treated as individuals".

The way RAM works, is the environment of all DIMMs
is the same. They receive the Column Address Strobe
(CAS) on the same cycle. They receive the same clock
frequency. They receive the same voltage for their
power source. Since the DIMMs are on shared buses
and the memory controller for both channels comes
from the same chip, there is an incentive to make
all operating conditions identical.

Why inserting the DIMMs as in the second diagram
works, is a mystery. Since the DIMMs are all 4GB
ones of equivalent construction, it allows some
flexibility in mixing. The dual channel works in
both situations. The system is still in dual channel
mode after the change.

A question you would have to ask, is whether the
1.5V RAM you "boost" to 1.65V, whether a 1.35V
RAM can also be boosted to 1.65V. If you do
select the 1.35V RAM, I would do so only for
a system which does not have a high boost for
VDimm. As I don't know the extent of the "tolerance"
on the 1.35V DDR3L.

The 1.35V stuff is readily available, and Kingston
has resorted to "cherry picking" on the DRAM market.
While the spec sheet says 1.5V, Kingston refuses
to make a separate SKU for 1.35V in this case. Kingston
did something similar a few years back, mixing
high density and low density DIMMs under the same
SKU, in violation of their datasheet. (The datasheet
might show double-sided DIMMs, but the blister packs
of memory had single-sided DIMMs in some packages
and double-sided DIMMs in other packages. This
caused *grief* for people seeking low density RAM,
which is what the product was intended for.)

As far as I know, if 1.35V RAM is on a DIMM, the SPD
EEPROM must have an encoding for it. Consequently,
if those two products are for real on your retailer
site, they likely do not have identical SPD contents
when you examine them in CPUZ SPD table. This could
be what is causing the BIOS to fail to set up
some configurations of the mixed RAM. The BIOS was
not programmed to accept "variation" in that field
of the SPD EEPROM.

The general rule of thumb for memory is, to mix
"like with like". Don't mix server ram with
"enthusiast overclocker RAM" as the latter needs
too much voltage for stability. If you start with
server ram at stock voltage, your upgrade to
the system should also be server class RAM
(which runs at JEDEC voltage, not boosted voltage).

If you need to save a few bucks by buying the 1.35V
RAM, you can. But be prepared for the system to black
screen and not POST properly. You may have to send the
RAM back, if your BIOS does not like it. There is no
way to know in advance, whether the BIOS is ready for it.

It's also possible, if the motherboard has a BIOS upgrade,
that the BIOS could be modified to "ignore" the
voltage field. And then any configuration of DIMMs
would work with less trouble than the above example.

HTH,
Paul
  #3  
Old December 11th 18, 05:45 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 09:43:56 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Shadow wrote:
https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...d-hx318c10fr-4
https://www.kabum.com.br/produto/507...k-hx318c10fb-4

Other than the price ?

I downloaded the Kingston specs

https://cdn.cnetcontent.com/07/e9/07...f10cf84f67.pdf

Which says:

Latency CL9-11
Voltage 1.35V, 1.5V

It does not help at all in knowing if I can add a stick or
two.

My current memory is KHX1866C10D3/4G
Number of banks 8
Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts
(CPU-Z output)
TIA
[]'s


Kingston has specs right on their own web site.

50758 HX318C10FR/4 CAS10 1866 1.35V RS220
50759 HX318C10FB/4 CAS10 1866 1.5V RS247

The available information only lists 1.5V products.

https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX318C10FR_4.pdf


Exactly the same as
https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX318C10FB_4.pdf

The article here suggests the heat spreader color
is for "taste" in PC construction. Four colors are
available in all. The heat spreader color is not intended
as a voltage indicator.


--- slight cut

If you need to save a few bucks by buying the 1.35V
RAM, you can. But be prepared for the system to black
screen and not POST properly. You may have to send the
RAM back, if your BIOS does not like it. There is no
way to know in advance, whether the BIOS is ready for it.


If it's not 1.5V I can send it back, since that's what they
specify on the page. That's the law out here.

Características:
- Marca: HyperX
- Modelo: HX318C10FR/4

Especificações:
- Tipo: 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
- Capacidade: 4GB
- Aceleração: DDR3 1866
- Cas Latência: 10
- Tensão: 1.5V ---------

It's also possible, if the motherboard has a BIOS upgrade,
that the BIOS could be modified to "ignore" the
voltage field. And then any configuration of DIMMs
would work with less trouble than the above example.

HTH,
Paul


It does. TY for the links and info.
I'll go for the cheaper offer. And let you know how it worked
out.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #4  
Old December 11th 18, 07:19 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:45:24 -0200, Shadow wrote:

If it's not 1.5V I can send it back, since that's what they
specify on the page. That's the law out here.


Was a long time ago, but last time I called Kingston I couldn't
believe the red-carpet commitment to satisfied customers. I'd a
question regarding a USB flashstick, back when something like a 2 or
4G was a big deal.
  #5  
Old December 11th 18, 07:47 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 13:19:28 -0500, Flasherly
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:45:24 -0200, Shadow wrote:

If it's not 1.5V I can send it back, since that's what they
specify on the page. That's the law out here.


Was a long time ago, but last time I called Kingston I couldn't
believe the red-carpet commitment to satisfied customers. I'd a
question regarding a USB flashstick, back when something like a 2 or
4G was a big deal.


I have something like 3 days to send it back to the shop, for
a full refund. More than that, and it's under Kingston's possibly
non-existent warranty.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #6  
Old December 11th 18, 09:05 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:47:35 -0200, Shadow wrote:

I have something like 3 days to send it back to the shop, for
a full refund. More than that, and it's under Kingston's possibly
non-existent warranty.


Took me longer than 3 days to call for an explanation of why
physically formatted sectors might not correspond to a limit of unique
file entries I'd falsely presumed FAT capable of storing.

Initiate a live chat after preparing those contingencies for possible
recourse should any then arise.

https://www.kingston.com/en/support
  #7  
Old December 11th 18, 11:48 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 15:05:17 -0500, Flasherly
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:47:35 -0200, Shadow wrote:

I have something like 3 days to send it back to the shop, for
a full refund. More than that, and it's under Kingston's possibly
non-existent warranty.


Took me longer than 3 days to call for an explanation of why
physically formatted sectors might not correspond to a limit of unique
file entries I'd falsely presumed FAT capable of storing.

Initiate a live chat after preparing those contingencies for possible
recourse should any then arise.

https://www.kingston.com/en/support


Nah, I'll just install the modules, run Memtest86 for 6 hours
or so, and if it OK's them, keep them. Otherwise, return to the shop.
They pay for the postage.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #8  
Old December 12th 18, 05:04 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 20:48:45 -0200, Shadow wrote:

Nah, I'll just install the modules, run Memtest86 for 6 hours
or so, and if it OK's them, keep them. Otherwise, return to the shop.
They pay for the postage.


Memory is memory.
  #9  
Old December 12th 18, 10:35 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 23:04:44 -0500, Flasherly
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 20:48:45 -0200, Shadow wrote:

Nah, I'll just install the modules, run Memtest86 for 6 hours
or so, and if it OK's them, keep them. Otherwise, return to the shop.
They pay for the postage.


Memory is memory.


I'll try to remember that.

[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #10  
Old December 12th 18, 07:08 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default What's the difference between these two memories ?

On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 07:35:58 -0200, Shadow wrote:

I'll try to remember that.


I had 9 chips, 8 banks or rows, of 9 chips to a row.

The power would surge: That's closest to a "crash" anybody's going to
get, other than a maybe a fly walking into a mess of vacuum tube.

Then I'd have to find the chips affected, maybe one, two, sometimes
three - each individual DRAM chips with aluminum legs, pulling them
out, a row at a time, until a reboot came up to count what was left.

Then each vacant row needed to be reseated. The bad RAM was in it if
the BIOS indicated it failed a memory count;- each chip then was
substituted with a good one, one by one, until it counted.

I kept a plastic bag of such, good spare RAM chips.

The maddening part: later on down the road, I could run into another
"crash, then could pull, from that bag of chips from prior crashes, a
substitute that works.

That was a single 1 Megabyte computer with 8 banks of sockets for RAM.

The cost of the 1 Megabyte RAM: $300US dollars.

Next computer was slotted RAM: the first chips slotted on a board to
insert into a female slot.

Never had any trouble with RAM since.

Happy testing.
 




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