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Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?
I discovered something last night that has me stumped.
I have two TVs in the house - both have been using a so-called Verizon set-top box to get TV programming via a wireless Verizon router The TVs are hardwired to the router via house coax, as is the router. My two PCs are cat5-connected to the same router even though the latter could work wireless (wireless showed to be slower). I also have a tablet and a laptop, both of which get internet wirelessly using same router. Having said all that - the other night I accidently disconnected my router's power, but did not know it (I was not using the web on my computers). While in that state, I watched TV several hours wth no problem. Then - I discovered the disconnect, and connected. Then, of course, my PCs had internet access, All ok. But then - I thought: How the H was I getting a TV signal? I repeated the power disconnect just to veriify things, and the same happened. I asked a friend, who lives 100 miles away, to try duplicating my fete, and he said he got no TV at all, which seems logical. Can anyone suggest how I am getting a TV signal? What don't I know? Maybe I can stop paying for Verizon TV? Thanks Sam |
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Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?
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#3
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Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?
SamSpade wrote:
I discovered something last night that has me stumped. I have two TVs in the house - both have been using a so-called Verizon set-top box to get TV programming via a wireless Verizon router The TVs are hardwired to the router via house coax, as is the router. My two PCs are cat5-connected to the same router even though the latter could work wireless (wireless showed to be slower). I also have a tablet and a laptop, both of which get internet wirelessly using same router. Having said all that - the other night I accidently disconnected my router's power, but did not know it (I was not using the web on my computers). While in that state, I watched TV several hours wth no problem. Then - I discovered the disconnect, and connected. Then, of course, my PCs had internet access, All ok. But then - I thought: How the H was I getting a TV signal? I repeated the power disconnect just to veriify things, and the same happened. I asked a friend, who lives 100 miles away, to try duplicating my fete, and he said he got no TV at all, which seems logical. Can anyone suggest how I am getting a TV signal? What don't I know? Maybe I can stop paying for Verizon TV? Thanks Sam Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the service entry point directly (from a splitter) to the set-top box which then is wired to the TV. The only reason you have a modem is to provide additional services, like an internal router and switch for networking, radios for wifi networking, and voice service (if the modem has that feature). CATV doesn't go through the modem. From the service entry point, there is a splitter. One output goes to your TV(s) but perhaps to an adapter or set-top box and then to the TV(s). The other output of the splitter goes to the modem for networking and voice services. I know many users aren't that old where all you had was CATV without any paralleled Internet service, so you were stuck with dial-up services over the POTS lines or satellite dish for Internet access. You didn't get a cable modem back then. CATV was splitting the coax to the various radio devices (TV, recorders). Just coax from service entry (through a splitter to connect more than one radio device) to a wall jack to coax cable to set-top box (decoder) to a coax cable to the TV (or adapter if the TV didn't have an RF connector). The coax carries the TV signals. The modem doesn't get those. CATV doesn't go through the modem. You only need the modem for *other* services, like Internet or voice. TV signalling over coax doesn't use IP addressing or any networking protocols. Sorry, no idea what your friend has for a config (and even yours was a bit vague). He might be using streaming to his TV and that only works over networking, not simple TV signals over coax. The TV just needs coax (although it might not have the old RF connector some some adapter may be needed to convert to whatever input types the TV has or which ones other than RF that you want to use). It doesn't need the cable modem. If you have a smart TV, yes, then it wants to use a network to communicate with other devices on your network, like getting firmware updates and accessing non-CATV content sources (e.g., Netflix, SlingTV, etc). You only need the modem (what you might be calling the router) for *networking*. In fact, your TV (or set-top box) probably does not connect to the cable modem at all. More likely your setup is something like: service entry (coax)-- splitter }--(coax)-- set-top box ---- TV }--(coax)--------------------- TV }--(coax)-- modem }--(CAT5)-- PC }--(wifi)-- PC The modem isn't even in the path between coax service entry to the set-top box and TV. CATV doesn't need a modem/router. CATV came first. Cable Internet came later. CATV doesn't use the Internet. The decoder (set-top box) is only needed if the TV signals are scrambled. If your TV doesn't have an RF jack, you need an adapter (which could be the set-top box) to convert from coax to RCA, DVI, or whatever to match what jacks your TV does have. That's for simple or dumb CATV. With smart TVs, they want to use networking for their non-CATV features. You claimed "Verizon set-top box to get TV programming via a wireless Verizon router". Really? If true then you should be able to connect to the internal web server in the cable modem to see the list of networked devices connected to the cable modem. For me, that means use a web browser on a PC to go to 10.0.0.1, login, Connected Devices, and see what is listed there. Set-top boxes are not listed for me. My laptop, desktop PCs, security cam, VOIP box (Obitalk), and smartphones are listed. Some are wired (Ethernet). Some are wi-fi devices. They are listed because they are networked devices. The set-top boxes are not networking devices, just CATV devices, so they are not listed. |
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Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?
On 11/9/2018 3:29 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
SamSpade wrote: I discovered something last night that has me stumped. snip... Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the snip... Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten years back. |
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Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?
John McGaw wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten years back. Are you're paying for CATV (networking not involved) or streaming TV (requires networking) or both? The coax (RF) connector on the cable modem goes where? To a splitter at the service entry point. The cable to the RF connector on the set-top box goes where? To the splitter at the service entry point. Um, you thought CATV went away 10 years ago as though being old meaning it was no longer used. How old do you think is the Ethernet protocol for networking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet Neither are new technologies. Neither is under 10 years old, or 20 years old, or 30 years old. Try over 40 years old for Ethernet and 60 years old for CATV. They both still work. Nothing your paying for CATV, voice, or Internet is new technology. |
#6
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Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?
VanguardLH wrote:
John McGaw wrote: VanguardLH wrote: Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten years back. Are you're paying for CATV (networking not involved) or streaming TV (requires networking) or both? The coax (RF) connector on the cable modem goes where? To a splitter at the service entry point. The cable to the RF connector on the set-top box goes where? To the splitter at the service entry point. Um, you thought CATV went away 10 years ago as though being old meaning it was no longer used. How old do you think is the Ethernet protocol for networking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet Neither are new technologies. Neither is under 10 years old, or 20 years old, or 30 years old. Try over 40 years old for Ethernet and 60 years old for CATV. They both still work. Nothing your paying for CATV, voice, or Internet is new technology. You probably need a CableCard now, due to encryption. I doubt traditional cable would work by accident, it takes planning and the cable company won't exactly be helping you. It means they don't have to send a guy skulking around your house, sniffing for stolen CATV. If you don't have the proper CableCard, you're not going to see anything. And an added benefit, is extra CableCards are rented for $5 a month - the CableCard scheme makes them extra money. Paul |
#7
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Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?
On Fri, 09 Nov 2018 18:58:29 -0500, Paul
wrote: VanguardLH wrote: John McGaw wrote: VanguardLH wrote: Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten years back. Are you're paying for CATV (networking not involved) or streaming TV (requires networking) or both? The coax (RF) connector on the cable modem goes where? To a splitter at the service entry point. The cable to the RF connector on the set-top box goes where? To the splitter at the service entry point. Um, you thought CATV went away 10 years ago as though being old meaning it was no longer used. How old do you think is the Ethernet protocol for networking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet Neither are new technologies. Neither is under 10 years old, or 20 years old, or 30 years old. Try over 40 years old for Ethernet and 60 years old for CATV. They both still work. Nothing your paying for CATV, voice, or Internet is new technology. You probably need a CableCard now, due to encryption. I doubt traditional cable would work by accident, it takes planning and the cable company won't exactly be helping you. It means they don't have to send a guy skulking around your house, sniffing for stolen CATV. If you don't have the proper CableCard, you're not going to see anything. And an added benefit, is extra CableCards are rented for $5 a month - the CableCard scheme makes them extra money. Paul Thanks guys Sam |
#8
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Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?
Paul wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: John McGaw wrote: VanguardLH wrote: Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten years back. Are you're paying for CATV (networking not involved) or streaming TV (requires networking) or both? The coax (RF) connector on the cable modem goes where? To a splitter at the service entry point. The cable to the RF connector on the set-top box goes where? To the splitter at the service entry point. Um, you thought CATV went away 10 years ago as though being old meaning it was no longer used. How old do you think is the Ethernet protocol for networking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet Neither are new technologies. Neither is under 10 years old, or 20 years old, or 30 years old. Try over 40 years old for Ethernet and 60 years old for CATV. They both still work. Nothing your paying for CATV, voice, or Internet is new technology. You probably need a CableCard now, due to encryption. I doubt traditional cable would work by accident, it takes planning and the cable company won't exactly be helping you. It means they don't have to send a guy skulking around your house, sniffing for stolen CATV. If you don't have the proper CableCard, you're not going to see anything. And an added benefit, is extra CableCards are rented for $5 a month - the CableCard scheme makes them extra money. Paul The CableCard was the result of an FCC ruling (Telecommunications Act of 1996). It was and is how the CATV providers retain control over use of their system and content while complying with a ruling saying customers could use equipment other than that supplied by the CATV provider. The set-top box or CableCard are only required to decrypt the encrypted digital transmission over the coax (to convert to signalling that TVs can use). You can lease a set-top box from your CATV provider. Or you can lease a CableCard from your CATV provider. They haven't relinquished access control over their encrypted content. If there is unencrypted CATV content on the coax, you don't need a set-top box or CableCard for that. The cable modem, assuming one is even present, is not involved in encrypted CATV. The coax comes into your home, optionally to a splitter (if more than one radio device uses the CATV content or you connect a cable modem), and goes to the set-top box and then to the TV. CATV, encrypted or not, doesn't go through the cable modem. https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...tem-encryption The FCC requires the cable providers include the local OTA channels which is what you likely get with the cable provider's basic service. If all you want is the basic service (you don't want anything more) then you don't even need a set-top box. The coax can go from outside directly to your TV (the splitter is only needed to connect more than one TV or to other services, like the modem). As I recall, although required to carry the local channels, the cable operators move them up to frequencies beyond the tuner of your TV, so you get stuck with a set-top box (whether theirs or another using the CableCard) to reach those local channels on their cable. There are even CableCard-ready TVs, so the coax goes straight to the TV. No set-top box, no 3rd party CableCard device, just a cable from wall to TV - and that cable doesn't go through the cable modem. https://www.lifewire.com/intro-to-ca...d-tech-3276161 You still have to get the CableCard from the CATV provider. I haven't gone that route, so I don't know if they'll sell it or just rent it. From what I've read, the CATV providers usually rents them ($3.99/mo). Some customers didn't have a rental option and had to pay $150 per CableCard. Of those, some got the cost offset with a "Dump the Dish" promotion at the time. The CATV provider has to activate the CableCard; else, it's non-functional hardware. In any case, the CableCard or set-top box does not involve the cable modem which is for Internet and voice services. The coax goes straight to the set-top box or whatever device in which you plug the CableCard. That's all about encrypting the content, not how CATV works. Simple (unencrypted) CATV can go straight to your TV (if its digital tuner can reach all the channels). https://www.google.com/search?q=veri...ions#kpvalbx=1 Notice they're connecting the coax (coming into the house and possibly from a splitter) directly to the set-top box (or a CableCard device, if you're using one). The cable modem isn't in the circuit. You don't need a cable modem to only get CATV service. If you add Internet and voice services, the CATV content to your TV is still through the coax from your service entry point, not from or through the modem. There may additional services the set-top box or CableCard device can supply to you that require networking but those services are outside or in addition to the CATV service. You could just have: service coax ---- set-top box ---- TV No cable /modem/ is involved nor needed just for CATV service. Since most CATV consumers also have Internet service, they also have a cable modem and mistakeningly believe the modem is involved with CATV service. That's why the OP got confused why CATV was still working when his Internet access disappeared when he powered off the cable modem. One of the first questions I get from tech support when I call in to report an outage of Internet or voice service is if the cable TV service is still working. If CATV is still working then they know the coax connections are okay from entry point to set-top box to TV (and probably are also okay from entry point to cable modem). Thereafter to fix an Internet outage has them having you putz with the cable modem which on a separate coax from the splitter. https://www.timewarnercable.com/cont...de-tv-east.pdf https://frontier.com/~/media/HelpCen...ons.ashx?la=en Notice a cable modem isn't even mentioned. A CableCard just means you get it (leased or purchased) from your CATV provider and can use it in a CATV (set-top) box that is from your CATV provider or somewhere else. https://www.verizon.com/support/resi...local-tv-setup Here you see a cable modem shown but that is not for CATV service. A splitter is used upstream of both the CATV device (TV or set-top box) and the modem. One path is for purely CATV service (to the TV). The other path to the modem are for Internet and voice services or whatever requires networking protocols (wired or wireless). |
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