Bootable CD problem -- boots, but can't see files

dg1261,

Thank you for that explanation. I think the problem is that my floppy
doesn't have the CD driver. To make the floppy (from which Creator 6 makes
the bootimg.bin file), I am using XP Explorer and selecting the A: drive and
formatting as system disk. I am not adding any files -- like the CD driver.
I see now that I need to do that. I think I have a Win98 Startup Disk and
will try that tomorrow, per your suggestion.

Will I need to do anything to get the CD driver to load? Or, assuming I
have the Win98 Startup Disk, if I use that and let Creator 6 make its
bootimg.bin file from that Win98 disk, then the CD drive will be
accessible -- yes?

If I understand you correctly, once the CD has the driver on it, then the CD
drive will become d: and then I'll see the Dell files.

John



"dg1261" wrote in message
m...
SNIP
That's the way it's supposed to work. It's just that your Dell files are
on
the *CD*, not on 'drive A:'. Don't look for the Dell files on 'A:', look
for them under the CD drive letter.

It sounds like you're making the CD correctly, but make sure your boot
floppy includes a CD driver. (A "Win98 Startup Disk" includes a generic
CD
driver. If you're trying to use a DOS or Win95 boot floppy then you need
to
add the proper CD driver yourself.)

When you boot this CD, you'll end up with a "virtual A:" that will boot
exactly like the source floppy did -- same screen messages and all. But
here's the part they don't make very clear: drive A: is not the CD, it's
this virtual floppy, held in ram. (FYI, your real floppy drive is still
accessible as drive B. Drive A: is limited to 1.44MB, since that's what
the source floppy was. The rest of your CD is not accessible as A:, you
get
to it via a CD drive letter, provided your virtual floppy included the
device drivers to enable CD support.

dg1261,

OK, now I'm understanding how this works. What I didn't get is that when
EZCD6 makes a bootable CD, it boots to A: and only the files that were on
the floppy used to create bootimg.bin show up with A: DIR. I now understand
I'll need to load a CD driver, etc.

I think that making a bootable FLOPPY in Windows XP does NOT load the
driver. I have a Win98SE bootable disk which I will try later today.
Furthermore, I now see which file I'd need from bootdisk.com -- DOS 6.22
Alt1 from he http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm (Or W98SE OEM Alt1. I
think it's OK to have DOS loaded into a RAM drive. Yes?

I understand everything you wrote about modifying the config.sys and
autoexec.bat files, so I should be able to figure this out now.

I've been using PCs since the days of CP/M and DOS but never had to learn
this stuff. (I'm an end-user, not a computer person.) I appreciate your
help in adding this to my arsenal of tools.

John



"dg1261" wrote in message
...

"John Blaustein" wrote:
I think the problem is that my floppy doesn't have the CD driver.
To make the floppy (from which Creator 6 makes the bootimg.bin file),
I am using XP Explorer and selecting the A: drive and formatting
as system disk. I am not adding any files -- like the CD driver.

Will I need to do anything to get the CD driver to load? Or,
assuming I have the Win98 Startup Disk, if I use that and let
Creator 6 make its bootimg.bin file from that Win98 disk, then
the CD drive will be accessible -- yes?

If I understand you correctly, once the CD has the driver on it,
then the CD drive will become d: and then I'll see the Dell files.

I've never tried using a system floppy made with XP, so can't comment on
what it's capable of.

A generic Win98 Startup Disk should come with CD support. You can either
make one from within Win98 ('Add/Remove Programs', [Startup Disk] tab), or
if you don't have a Win98 system, just go to bootdisk.com and download the
file to make a Win98 boot disk. Once you have the floppy, test it--put it
in the drive and reboot from it. If you can boot from the floppy and
access
files on an ordinary CD, then the floppy will work as the source for
bootimg.bin. If you can't, then fix your floppy first.

The standard Win98 boot floppy should pause at a DOS menu to allow you to
choose to boot with or without CD support. Obviously, choose 'with'.
Then,
as the floppy continues to boot, watch the screen closely. Toward the end
of the boot process you should see mscdex kick in and say it's assigned
the
CD drive letter as 'D:', or 'E:', or whatever. That's the CD drive letter
you'll need to use to access the Dell files. Note that the drive letter
will vary depending on how many FAT/FAT32 partitions the boot disk
sees--the
CD drive letter is simply next in sequence.

A standard Win98 boot floppy should work without requiring any
customization, but there are also a few tweaks you can make to customize
your boot floppy a bit. First, you can edit config.sys to remove the menu
(since you wouldn't ever want to choose 'without CD support' when it
boots).
Second, you can edit autoexec.bat to force the CD drive letter to a
specific
letter. That way, the letter won't jump around depending on your
partition
layout, making things much simpler if you intend to use your bootable CD
on
a number of different computers. For example, I use "mscdex /D:MSCD001
/L:R", and the CD drive is always accessible as drive 'R:', regardless of
what system I use the boot disk on.

Hint: once you get your boot floppy tweaked to your liking, and EZCD6 has
generated a bootimg.bin file, save a copy of that bin file for reuse
later.
The next time you want to create a bootable CD, tell EZCD6 to use the copy
of the bin file you saved on your hard drive, and you won't have to keep
digging out the boot floppy every time.

BTW, I have done pretty much the same thing you want to do. I have a
bootable diagnostic CD that includes the Dell diagnostic programs for a
number of different machines, plus other miscellaneous disk management
utilities, the DOS versions of PartitionMagic and DriveImage, and even DOS
networking support (so I can connect to my Windows network while booted to
DOS). DOS programs are pretty small, so this all fits on one of those 3"
mini-CDRs, which is more convenient to carry around than a full-size CDR.

Hi,

I'm trying to make a bootable CD that contains Dell Diagnostic software on
it. I want to be able to boot a Dell laptop from the CD and then run the
Dell Diagnostic programs. The diagnostics do not need to run automatically,
but they need to be visible when I type DIR at the DOS prompt.

I'm using XP Home, SP2 with all updates applied. Also, I'm using Roxio Easy
CD & DVD Creator 6, Basic Edition, Disk Creator Classic with Plextor PX-712A
drive.

I have all the Dell Diag files in a folder on my HD. In Creator 6, I select
FileNewBootable Disk. I then insert a bootable floppy and Disk Creator
makes an image file which it copies to the list of files to burn to the CD.
(I'm selecting "Floppy disk emulation" from the disk-type pulldown.) Then, I
drag all of the Dell Diag files from the HD to the CD, and burn the CD.

When I look at the CD in Windows Explorer, I see all the Dell files and
bootcat.bin and bootimg.bin. The laptop will boot from the CD, but when I
type DIR at the A: prompt, I only see the DOS files from the DOS image. I do
not see any of the Dell files.

Can anyone help me figure out what I'm doing wrong?

I've looked at bootdisk.com and I'm sure the answer is there, but frankly
I'm not sure which of their solutions is right for me.

John

"John Blaustein" wrote in message
...
I have all the Dell Diag files in a folder on my HD. In Creator 6, I
select
FileNewBootable Disk. I then insert a bootable floppy and Disk Creator
makes an image file which it copies to the list of files to burn to the
CD.
(I'm selecting "Floppy disk emulation" from the disk-type pulldown.) Then,
I
drag all of the Dell Diag files from the HD to the CD, and burn the CD.

When I look at the CD in Windows Explorer, I see all the Dell files and
bootcat.bin and bootimg.bin. The laptop will boot from the CD, but when I
type DIR at the A: prompt, I only see the DOS files from the DOS image. I
do
not see any of the Dell files.

That's the way it's supposed to work. It's just that your Dell files are on
the *CD*, not on 'drive A:'. Don't look for the Dell files on 'A:', look
for them under the CD drive letter.

It sounds like you're making the CD correctly, but make sure your boot
floppy includes a CD driver. (A "Win98 Startup Disk" includes a generic CD
driver. If you're trying to use a DOS or Win95 boot floppy then you need to
add the proper CD driver yourself.)

When you boot this CD, you'll end up with a "virtual A:" that will boot
exactly like the source floppy did -- same screen messages and all. But
here's the part they don't make very clear: drive A: is not the CD, it's
this virtual floppy, held in ram. (FYI, your real floppy drive is still
accessible as drive B. Drive A: is limited to 1.44MB, since that's what
the source floppy was. The rest of your CD is not accessible as A:, you get
to it via a CD drive letter, provided your virtual floppy included the
device drivers to enable CD support.

dg1261,

I checked my Win98SE Startup Disk and it has two files which look like CD
drivers:

BTCDROM.SYS
OAKCDROM.SYS

If I use that disk in Creator 6 to make the bootimg.bin file, will that work
to give me CD access after booting with the CD?

One of the Web pages I was reading when trying to get this to work referred
to mscdex.exe. My Win98SE disk doesn't have that, but I have mscdexnt.exe
on my HD. Do I need that? Do I need an autoexec.bat file with some
commands?

Why isn't this easier?!

John


"dg1261" wrote in message SNIP
That's the way it's supposed to work. It's just that your Dell files are
on
the *CD*, not on 'drive A:'. Don't look for the Dell files on 'A:', look
for them under the CD drive letter.

It sounds like you're making the CD correctly, but make sure your boot
floppy includes a CD driver. (A "Win98 Startup Disk" includes a generic
CD
driver. If you're trying to use a DOS or Win95 boot floppy then you need
to
add the proper CD driver yourself.)

When you boot this CD, you'll end up with a "virtual A:" that will boot
exactly like the source floppy did -- same screen messages and all. But
here's the part they don't make very clear: drive A: is not the CD, it's
this virtual floppy, held in ram. (FYI, your real floppy drive is still
accessible as drive B. Drive A: is limited to 1.44MB, since that's
what
the source floppy was. The rest of your CD is not accessible as A:, you
get
to it via a CD drive letter, provided your virtual floppy included the
device drivers to enable CD support.

"John Blaustein" wrote:
I think the problem is that my floppy doesn't have the CD driver.
To make the floppy (from which Creator 6 makes the bootimg.bin file),
I am using XP Explorer and selecting the A: drive and formatting
as system disk. I am not adding any files -- like the CD driver.

Will I need to do anything to get the CD driver to load? Or,
assuming I have the Win98 Startup Disk, if I use that and let
Creator 6 make its bootimg.bin file from that Win98 disk, then
the CD drive will be accessible -- yes?

If I understand you correctly, once the CD has the driver on it,
then the CD drive will become d: and then I'll see the Dell files.

I've never tried using a system floppy made with XP, so can't comment on
what it's capable of.

A generic Win98 Startup Disk should come with CD support. You can either
make one from within Win98 ('Add/Remove Programs', [Startup Disk] tab), or
if you don't have a Win98 system, just go to bootdisk.com and download the
file to make a Win98 boot disk. Once you have the floppy, test it--put it
in the drive and reboot from it. If you can boot from the floppy and access
files on an ordinary CD, then the floppy will work as the source for
bootimg.bin. If you can't, then fix your floppy first.

The standard Win98 boot floppy should pause at a DOS menu to allow you to
choose to boot with or without CD support. Obviously, choose 'with'. Then,
as the floppy continues to boot, watch the screen closely. Toward the end
of the boot process you should see mscdex kick in and say it's assigned the
CD drive letter as 'D:', or 'E:', or whatever. That's the CD drive letter
you'll need to use to access the Dell files. Note that the drive letter
will vary depending on how many FAT/FAT32 partitions the boot disk sees--the
CD drive letter is simply next in sequence.

A standard Win98 boot floppy should work without requiring any
customization, but there are also a few tweaks you can make to customize
your boot floppy a bit. First, you can edit config.sys to remove the menu
(since you wouldn't ever want to choose 'without CD support' when it boots).
Second, you can edit autoexec.bat to force the CD drive letter to a specific
letter. That way, the letter won't jump around depending on your partition
layout, making things much simpler if you intend to use your bootable CD on
a number of different computers. For example, I use "mscdex /D:MSCD001
/L:R", and the CD drive is always accessible as drive 'R:', regardless of
what system I use the boot disk on.

Hint: once you get your boot floppy tweaked to your liking, and EZCD6 has
generated a bootimg.bin file, save a copy of that bin file for reuse later.
The next time you want to create a bootable CD, tell EZCD6 to use the copy
of the bin file you saved on your hard drive, and you won't have to keep
digging out the boot floppy every time.

BTW, I have done pretty much the same thing you want to do. I have a
bootable diagnostic CD that includes the Dell diagnostic programs for a
number of different machines, plus other miscellaneous disk management
utilities, the DOS versions of PartitionMagic and DriveImage, and even DOS
networking support (so I can connect to my Windows network while booted to
DOS). DOS programs are pretty small, so this all fits on one of those 3"
mini-CDRs, which is more convenient to carry around than a full-size CDR.

dg1261,

SUCCESS!

I used a Win98SE Startup Disk when EZCD6 asked for a bootable floppy. I
saved the image for later use. Then, I dragged my Dell files to the CD in
the EZCD6 layout window and burned the CD. It booted perfectly on the Dell
laptop, asked if I wanted CD support, I said "yes," it booted to A:, I
switched to D: and there were my Dell files. The diags run with no
problems. I didn't have to edit or create an autoexec.bat or config.sys
file -- they were both on the Win98SE disk in a compressed file that EZCD6
used.

I wonder about running diags when some of the memory has a ramdisk in it.
So far, it seems like that's not a problem. Any thoughts?

I like your idea of modifying the config.sys and autoexec.bat files as you
suggest. I may give that a try. Also, I like putting different versions of
the Dell laptop diags on the same CD in different folders, along with other
utilities. This whole project started because my son's Dell 8500 had a bad
HD and I had to replace it, format the new HD, install Windows XP, etc.
That all went without problems. However, Dell ships the new laptops with
the diags on a hidden partition on the HD. You access them by pressing F8
(or another F key -- can't remember now which one) and one of the choices is
diagnostics -- booting from the HD or CD are other choices. Starting with a
new HD, those diags are no longer there, so I wanted to create a bootable CD
with the latest version of the diags.

It's all so easy if you know how to do it!

You've been really kind to provide me with such detailed information. It's
all much appreciated. (I have to tell you I posted to a Roxio forum and to
a Microsoft hardware NG and no one explained it like you did. I got lots
of: "look at bootdisk.com" but I wasn't sure which file on bootdisk.com to
use since I didn't understand how this all works until you explained it.)

John


"dg1261" wrote in message
...

SNIP

I've never tried using a system floppy made with XP, so can't comment on
what it's capable of.

A generic Win98 Startup Disk should come with CD support. You can either
make one from within Win98 ('Add/Remove Programs', [Startup Disk] tab), or
if you don't have a Win98 system, just go to bootdisk.com and download the
file to make a Win98 boot disk. Once you have the floppy, test it--put it
in the drive and reboot from it. If you can boot from the floppy and
access
files on an ordinary CD, then the floppy will work as the source for
bootimg.bin. If you can't, then fix your floppy first.

The standard Win98 boot floppy should pause at a DOS menu to allow you to
choose to boot with or without CD support. Obviously, choose 'with'.
Then,
as the floppy continues to boot, watch the screen closely. Toward the end
of the boot process you should see mscdex kick in and say it's assigned
the
CD drive letter as 'D:', or 'E:', or whatever. That's the CD drive letter
you'll need to use to access the Dell files. Note that the drive letter
will vary depending on how many FAT/FAT32 partitions the boot disk
sees--the
CD drive letter is simply next in sequence.

A standard Win98 boot floppy should work without requiring any
customization, but there are also a few tweaks you can make to customize
your boot floppy a bit. First, you can edit config.sys to remove the menu
(since you wouldn't ever want to choose 'without CD support' when it
boots).
Second, you can edit autoexec.bat to force the CD drive letter to a
specific
letter. That way, the letter won't jump around depending on your
partition
layout, making things much simpler if you intend to use your bootable CD
on
a number of different computers. For example, I use "mscdex /D:MSCD001
/L:R", and the CD drive is always accessible as drive 'R:', regardless of
what system I use the boot disk on.

Hint: once you get your boot floppy tweaked to your liking, and EZCD6 has
generated a bootimg.bin file, save a copy of that bin file for reuse
later.
The next time you want to create a bootable CD, tell EZCD6 to use the copy
of the bin file you saved on your hard drive, and you won't have to keep
digging out the boot floppy every time.

BTW, I have done pretty much the same thing you want to do. I have a
bootable diagnostic CD that includes the Dell diagnostic programs for a
number of different machines, plus other miscellaneous disk management
utilities, the DOS versions of PartitionMagic and DriveImage, and even DOS
networking support (so I can connect to my Windows network while booted to
DOS). DOS programs are pretty small, so this all fits on one of those 3"
mini-CDRs, which is more convenient to carry around than a full-size CDR.

"John Blaustein" wrote:
SUCCESS!
...(snipped)...

It's all so easy if you know how to do it!


Yeah, the key is understanding what A: really is. That's the part that most
instructions gloss over.


I wonder about running diags when some of the memory has a ramdisk
in it. So far, it seems like that's not a problem. Any thoughts?

Not a problem. That's even the way an ordinary Win98 boot floppy works,
too--MS couldn't fit all the desired emergency boot files on a single
floppy, so they compressed them into a cab file on the floppy (ebd.cab),
then extract them to a ramdisk when the floppy boots.

In fact, if you start adding other utils to your CD, there's another gotcha
to be aware of. Your CD is essentially a read-only device, so if any of
your utils need to write their own working files (for temp or config data,
for example), you might not be able to run that util from CD. In that case,
copy some of your utils to ramdisk and run them from there (increase the
size of your ramdisk, if you need to).


I like your idea of modifying the config.sys and autoexec.bat files as
you suggest. I may give that a try. Also, I like putting different
versions of the Dell laptop diags on the same CD in different folders,
along with other utilities.

There's a number of things you can do to tweak your boot disk. Besides
eliminating the Win98 boot menu and fixing the CD drive letter, you may want
to tweak your path statement, and maybe add the full set of DOS 7.1 files
(from c:\windows\command folder on a Win98 system) instead of just the few
files MS packs into ebd.cab. If you're adventurous, you can even add
network support--though that takes a bit of work. (See
http://www.netbootdisk.com/index.htm for a near-universal disk that works on
most home systems).

dg1261,

I am compiling my own "help doc" from your posts and will add the info below
to it. It's so cool to continually learn more about computers.

Yeah, the key is understanding what A: really is. That's the part that
most
instructions gloss over.

And the need to load the CD driver and how it boots to A:, but you need to
type D: (or whatever) to see the CD.

I wonder about running diags when some of the memory has a ramdisk
in it. So far, it seems like that's not a problem. Any thoughts?

Not a problem. That's even the way an ordinary Win98 boot floppy works,
too--MS couldn't fit all the desired emergency boot files on a single
floppy, so they compressed them into a cab file on the floppy (ebd.cab),
then extract them to a ramdisk when the floppy boots.

In fact, if you start adding other utils to your CD, there's another
gotcha
to be aware of. Your CD is essentially a read-only device, so if any of
your utils need to write their own working files (for temp or config data,
for example), you might not be able to run that util from CD. In that
case,
copy some of your utils to ramdisk and run them from there (increase the
size of your ramdisk, if you need to).

Interesting. Thanks for clarifying all of that.

There's a number of things you can do to tweak your boot disk. Besides
eliminating the Win98 boot menu and fixing the CD drive letter, you may
want
to tweak your path statement, and maybe add the full set of DOS 7.1 files
(from c:\windows\command folder on a Win98 system) instead of just the few
files MS packs into ebd.cab. If you're adventurous, you can even add
network support--though that takes a bit of work. (See
http://www.netbootdisk.com/index.htm for a near-universal disk that works
on
most home systems).

Between netbootdisk.com and bootdisk.com, it's all there.

Regards,

John