Overburning question

Let me apologize if this topic has come up before. I am trying to burn an
audio CD which exceeds the specified capacity the disc will allow. I ran
Nero CD Speed to determine how far I could overburn. Nero CD Speed reported
that the maximum capacity of the disc is 83:21:26. The audio CD I want to
burn is reported as 82:05:05. Because this figure is lower than the
reported maximum capacity of the disc, I assumed it would be safe to
overburn without complications. The burning process completed without any
problems, and the CD plays fine (even the final track).

My question concerns the lead-in and lead-out. I know what they are. I
also know they require about 90 seconds of disc space. What I don't know is
whether the reported maximum capacity of 83:21:26 includes the necessary
space needed for the lead-in and lead-out.

The reason I ask this is because when I take the difference between the size
of the audio disc I want to burn and the reported maximum capacity, I get a
figure of 1:16:21. If I am correct in assuming that these figures represent
minutes, seconds, and frames, then I don't have enough space for either a
lead-in or a lead-out.

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm... bubbanews.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...mindspring.com

( No Pipsqueaks have been able to prove ANY of the above is a LIBEL )
( -- despite Mikey claimed to have proof of misquotes !! )


"Anthony J. Bertorelli" wrote:

Let me apologize if this topic has come up before. I am trying to burn an
audio CD which exceeds the specified capacity the disc will allow. I ran
Nero CD Speed to determine how far I could overburn. Nero CD Speed reported
that the maximum capacity of the disc is 83:21:26. The audio CD I want to
burn is reported as 82:05:05. Because this figure is lower than the
reported maximum capacity of the disc, I assumed it would be safe to
overburn without complications. The burning process completed without any
problems, and the CD plays fine (even the final track).

My question concerns the lead-in and lead-out. I know what they are. I
also know they require about 90 seconds of disc space. What I don't know is
whether the reported maximum capacity of 83:21:26 includes the necessary
space needed for the lead-in and lead-out.

The reason I ask this is because when I take the difference between the size
of the audio disc I want to burn and the reported maximum capacity, I get a
figure of 1:16:21. If I am correct in assuming that these figures represent
minutes, seconds, and frames, then I don't have enough space for either a
lead-in or a lead-out.

Subject: How much data can they hold? 650MB? 680MB?
http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-6

On a single-session disc, the overhead for lead-in and lead-out are not
counted as part of the user data area, so nothing is "lost" until you go
multisession.

(Can you find out what happens to the "not counted" part when you do
multisession?)

Anthony J. Bertorelli wrote:

My question concerns the lead-in and lead-out. I know what they are. I
also know they require about 90 seconds of disc space. What I don't know is
whether the reported maximum capacity of 83:21:26 includes the necessary
space needed for the lead-in and lead-out.

Leadin and leadout (runin, runout) for a single session are not counted
in the capacity of a disc. For a multisession (data) disc, each session
after the first takes about 13 MB.

Note that the quality of the burn beyond rated capacity is not assured
any more than a disc of nominally 90-100 minutes will record well enough
to be used for data. The fortunate aspect is that errors in the leadout
will not be significant, nor would be some truncation of the leadout as
long as you have a modern player.

Mike
--

http://www.mrichter.com/

Mike Richter wrote:

Leadin and leadout (runin, runout) for a single session are not counted
in the capacity of a disc. For a multisession (data) disc, each session
after the first takes about 13 MB.

Note that the quality of the burn beyond rated capacity is not assured
any more than a disc of nominally 90-100 minutes will record well enough
to be used for data. The fortunate aspect is that errors in the leadout
will not be significant, nor would be some truncation of the leadout as
long as you have a modern player.

Sorry to comment on my own post (bad form), but I tried some experiments
and got equivocal results. The question is whether the leadout/runout is
included in CDSpeed's measurement - and I'm not certain. My inclination
is that it is not; my tests are consistent with CDSpeed measuring from
the end of the leadin to the end of the recordable region (i.e.,
including leadout). However, some of the numbers seem suspiciously low,
suggesting that it might have an allowance for leadout.

Sorry, but I've no controlled master disc or indpendent measurement. My
suggestion is to assume that it measures to the point where the spiral
runs out. Then to be safe, leave 13 MB (1.3 minutes of audio) for a full
leadout, less if you want to take a chance on your reader.

(The leadin is definitely not part of the measurement.)

Mike
--

http://www.mrichter.com/

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

Mike Richter (Roxio ****) splattered:

snip

Expert on overburn, lead-in and lead-out?

---------------------------------------------
Mike Richter: CD-R FAQ has Significant Errors
---------------------------------------------

=================================
From: "ned ludd"
Subject: Lead in and Lead out
Date: 5/28/02

"Mike Richter" (Friggin ****) splattered:

I've posted privately to Andy on the FAQ section.

It is quite dated ... and has significant errors
based on my understanding.

An essential omission for this Subject is the role of
the leadout/runout in a reader.

A CD-ROM (or audio) drive needs the runout
to read the session at all.

Not in my experience.

An audio disc without a leadout ... will read in ANY player
up to the point where the data ends provided it was burned DAO.

Failed data discs burned DAO will behave similarly,
any complete files will be readable in any reader.

==================================================
(Mikey knows nothing about OVERBURN !!)

--------------------------
Wow! What a Friggin ****!
--------------------------

--------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:25:48 -0700, Mike Richter
wrote:

| Mike Richter wrote:
|
| Leadin and leadout (runin, runout) for a single session are not counted
| in the capacity of a disc. For a multisession (data) disc, each session
| after the first takes about 13 MB.
|
| Note that the quality of the burn beyond rated capacity is not assured
| any more than a disc of nominally 90-100 minutes will record well enough
| to be used for data. The fortunate aspect is that errors in the leadout
| will not be significant, nor would be some truncation of the leadout as
| long as you have a modern player.
|
| Sorry to comment on my own post (bad form), but I tried some experiments
| and got equivocal results. The question is whether the leadout/runout is
| included in CDSpeed's measurement - and I'm not certain. My inclination
| is that it is not; my tests are consistent with CDSpeed measuring from
| the end of the leadin to the end of the recordable region (i.e.,
| including leadout). However, some of the numbers seem suspiciously low,
| suggesting that it might have an allowance for leadout.
|
| Sorry, but I've no controlled master disc or indpendent measurement. My
| suggestion is to assume that it measures to the point where the spiral
| runs out. Then to be safe, leave 13 MB (1.3 minutes of audio) for a full
| leadout, less if you want to take a chance on your reader.
|
| (The leadin is definitely not part of the measurement.)

Ignore if this has already been covered, but a good source for
determining the amount of overburn a given CD-R should support is Nero
CD-DVD Speed. It's a free program available here (new version BTW):

http://www.cdspeed2000.com/

Larc



§§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§

"Anthony J. Bertorelli" wrote in message
...
Let me apologize if this topic has come up before. I am trying to burn an
audio CD which exceeds the specified capacity the disc will allow. I ran
Nero CD Speed to determine how far I could overburn. Nero CD Speed
reported
that the maximum capacity of the disc is 83:21:26. The audio CD I want to
burn is reported as 82:05:05. Because this figure is lower than the
reported maximum capacity of the disc, I assumed it would be safe to
overburn without complications. The burning process completed without any
problems, and the CD plays fine (even the final track).

My question concerns the lead-in and lead-out. I know what they are. I
also know they require about 90 seconds of disc space. What I don't know
is
whether the reported maximum capacity of 83:21:26 includes the necessary
space needed for the lead-in and lead-out.

The reason I ask this is because when I take the difference between the
size
of the audio disc I want to burn and the reported maximum capacity, I get
a
figure of 1:16:21. If I am correct in assuming that these figures
represent
minutes, seconds, and frames, then I don't have enough space for either a
lead-in or a lead-out.


don't bother mate audio cd burning is a waste of time the results
is coasters and ****, give up and try a different technology.

Larc wrote:
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:25:48 -0700, Mike Richter
wrote:

| Sorry to comment on my own post (bad form), but I tried some experiments
| and got equivocal results. The question is whether the leadout/runout is
| included in CDSpeed's measurement - and I'm not certain. My inclination
| is that it is not; my tests are consistent with CDSpeed measuring from
| the end of the leadin to the end of the recordable region (i.e.,
| including leadout). However, some of the numbers seem suspiciously low,
| suggesting that it might have an allowance for leadout.
|
| Sorry, but I've no controlled master disc or indpendent measurement. My
| suggestion is to assume that it measures to the point where the spiral
| runs out. Then to be safe, leave 13 MB (1.3 minutes of audio) for a full
| leadout, less if you want to take a chance on your reader.
|
| (The leadin is definitely not part of the measurement.)

Ignore if this has already been covered, but a good source for
determining the amount of overburn a given CD-R should support is Nero
CD-DVD Speed. It's a free program available here (new version BTW):

That's what both the OP and I were/are using.

Mike
--

http://www.mrichter.com/

' --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

Mike Richter (Roxio ****) splattered:

snip

Expert on overburn, lead-in and lead-out?

---------------------------------------------
Mike Richter: CD-R FAQ has Significant Errors
---------------------------------------------

=================================
From: "ned ludd"
Subject: Lead in and Lead out
Date: 5/28/02

"Mike Richter" (Friggin ****) splattered:

I've posted privately to Andy on the FAQ section.

It is quite dated ... and has significant errors
based on my understanding.

An essential omission for this Subject is the role of
the leadout/runout in a reader.

A CD-ROM (or audio) drive needs the runout
to read the session at all.

Not in my experience.

An audio disc without a leadout ... will read in ANY player
up to the point where the data ends provided it was burned DAO.

Failed data discs burned DAO will behave similarly,
any complete files will be readable in any reader.

==================================================
(Mikey knows nothing about overburn !!)

--------------------------
Wow! What a Friggin ****!
--------------------------

--------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------

terry smith wrote:

"Anthony J. Bertorelli" wrote in message
...
Let me apologize if this topic has come up before. I am trying to burn an
audio CD which exceeds the specified capacity the disc will allow. I ran
Nero CD Speed to determine how far I could overburn. Nero CD Speed
reported
that the maximum capacity of the disc is 83:21:26. The audio CD I want to
burn is reported as 82:05:05. Because this figure is lower than the
reported maximum capacity of the disc, I assumed it would be safe to
overburn without complications. The burning process completed without any
problems, and the CD plays fine (even the final track).

My question concerns the lead-in and lead-out. I know what they are. I
also know they require about 90 seconds of disc space. What I don't know
is
whether the reported maximum capacity of 83:21:26 includes the necessary
space needed for the lead-in and lead-out.

The reason I ask this is because when I take the difference between the
size
of the audio disc I want to burn and the reported maximum capacity, I get
a
figure of 1:16:21. If I am correct in assuming that these figures
represent
minutes, seconds, and frames, then I don't have enough space for either a
lead-in or a lead-out.


don't bother mate audio cd burning is a waste of time the results
is coasters and ****, give up and try a different technology.

I tried your suggestion and used punch paper tape. The audio was rather
choppy at best! ;-) I'll stick with CDs for now.


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