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Nero UDF & UDF/ISO confusion



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 17th 04, 05:08 PM
K2
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Posts: n/a
Default Nero UDF & UDF/ISO confusion

I have tried various techniques of making an incremental backup CD-R
with Nero 5.5.10.54 using UDF and UDF/ISO formats. I mainly want to
backup digital camera photos as months go by, filling up one CD-R at a
time.

I have "Multisession" checked and everything seems to copy fine
(different files on different days, with the original Nero compilation
saved each time to retain the layout), but many of the files end up
corrupted on the CD-R even though the sizes and names are accurate.
They become unreadable, even with an app like ISOBuster. When I open a
UDF CD-R in ISOBuster I see many different sessions, some with corrupt
files, some without. Usually the corrupted files begin after a certain
date, whereas previous sessions seemed to save with no errors. I
really don't understand the format.

Is Nero UDF or UDF/ISO actually _designed_ to be used for incremental
backup like Nero InCD or Roxio Direct-CD? Years ago, Direct-CD never
gave me problems but I've gone the Nero route for various reasons.

Several CD-RWs formatted with Nero InCD have crashed on me (could be
InCD, could be the brand), which is why I've been trying to use UDF or
UDF/ISO as a substitute. Is there a good FAQ for this somewhere
instead of the scattered forum questions I've found? Nero's program
help is very limited.

K2
  #2  
Old April 17th 04, 05:33 PM
Graham Mayor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Use ISO format multisession with Nero to ensure that your files are
preserved. This is the most robust of the data formats.

InCD is flaky and generally considered less reliable than Direct CD. Unless
they have changed it recently, InCD will not work with CDR discs.

I would not recommend the use of CDRW discs for archival purposes - or, come
to that, for any purpose that is not involved with testing.

--

Graham Mayor






K2 wrote:
I have tried various techniques of making an incremental backup CD-R
with Nero 5.5.10.54 using UDF and UDF/ISO formats. I mainly want to
backup digital camera photos as months go by, filling up one CD-R at a
time.

I have "Multisession" checked and everything seems to copy fine
(different files on different days, with the original Nero compilation
saved each time to retain the layout), but many of the files end up
corrupted on the CD-R even though the sizes and names are accurate.
They become unreadable, even with an app like ISOBuster. When I open a
UDF CD-R in ISOBuster I see many different sessions, some with corrupt
files, some without. Usually the corrupted files begin after a certain
date, whereas previous sessions seemed to save with no errors. I
really don't understand the format.

Is Nero UDF or UDF/ISO actually _designed_ to be used for incremental
backup like Nero InCD or Roxio Direct-CD? Years ago, Direct-CD never
gave me problems but I've gone the Nero route for various reasons.

Several CD-RWs formatted with Nero InCD have crashed on me (could be
InCD, could be the brand), which is why I've been trying to use UDF or
UDF/ISO as a substitute. Is there a good FAQ for this somewhere
instead of the scattered forum questions I've found? Nero's program
help is very limited.

K2



  #3  
Old April 17th 04, 07:55 PM
K2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:33:12 +0100, "Graham Mayor"
wrote:

Use ISO format multisession with Nero to ensure that your files are
preserved. This is the most robust of the data formats.


I assumed for some reason that UDF was superior for multisession work,
but I can see that the same options are in the "plain" ISO format.
I'll take your advice there.

InCD is flaky and generally considered less reliable than Direct CD. Unless
they have changed it recently, InCD will not work with CDR discs.


InCD is still for CD-RWs only. It worked fine up until 450-500 MB for
several rotating Memorex CD-RWs I was using. Then, they suddenly
became unreadable. I had trusted InCD until that point, but I don't
know if it was just a brand problem. I recently bought some TDK CD-RWs
but the initial InCD formatting process stalled on a test disc after
45 minutes. Not sure what the cause is.

I would not recommend the use of CDRW discs for archival purposes - or, come
to that, for any purpose that is not involved with testing.


I've always followed that rule, too.

K2

  #4  
Old April 17th 04, 08:25 PM
smh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

K2 wrote:

I have tried various techniques of making an incremental backup CD-R
with Nero 5.5.10.54 using UDF and UDF/ISO formats. I mainly want to
backup digital camera photos as months go by, filling up one CD-R at a
time.


Look up "Data CD (Multisession)" in Nero Help.

I have "Multisession" checked and everything seems to copy fine
(different files on different days, with the original Nero compilation
saved each time to retain the layout), but many of the files end up
corrupted on the CD-R even though the sizes and names are accurate.
They become unreadable, even with an app like ISOBuster. When I open a
UDF CD-R in ISOBuster I see many different sessions, some with corrupt
files, some without. Usually the corrupted files begin after a certain
date, whereas previous sessions seemed to save with no errors. I
really don't understand the format.

Is Nero UDF or UDF/ISO actually _designed_ to be used for incremental
backup


From Nero Help:

UDF Format
Creating a UDF CD

Please note that Nero does not yet support Multisession UDF-CDs and
that therefore UDF or UDF-Bridge Sessions must be written on blank
CDs.

like Nero InCD or Roxio Direct-CD? Years ago, Direct-CD never
gave me problems but I've gone the Nero route for various reasons.

Several CD-RWs formatted with Nero InCD have crashed on me (could be
InCD, could be the brand), which is why I've been trying to use UDF or
UDF/ISO as a substitute. Is there a good FAQ for this somewhere
instead of the scattered forum questions I've found? Nero's program
help is very limited.


Many InCD troubles are caused by conflicts with Roxio junks, like winxp
built-in burn function, WMP burn-plugin, left-over DirectCD files, etc.

Check out (S11) of 'KCK' InCD trouble guide:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9572 (XP)
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9997 (W2K)
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9597 (98x)
  #5  
Old April 17th 04, 08:26 PM
smh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

.. --------------------------------------
Graham Mayor, were you also born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------

Graham Mayor (MS MVP) spewed:

I would not recommend the use of CDRW discs for archival purposes - or, come
to that, for any purpose that is not involved with testing.


According to Mikey, cd-rw is good enough for BACKUP, of all things, even
when combined with the supposedly *inherently* flaky, fragile, faulty,
unreliable packet writing format!

=======================
From: Mike Richter (Acraptec Shill)
Date: 9/1/99

You may back up ... to a DCD-formatted erasable.
=======================

Don't you believe Mikey's words, Mayor (MS MVP)?


BTW, is the distinction between Specification, Standard, Format and
Implemention beyond comprehension of MS MVPs?
  #6  
Old April 17th 04, 09:19 PM
smh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

--------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

K2 wrote:

I have tried various techniques of making an incremental backup CD-R
with Nero 5.5.10.54 using UDF and UDF/ISO formats. I mainly want to
backup digital camera photos as months go by, filling up one CD-R at a
time.


Look up "Data CD (Multisession)" in Nero Help.

I have "Multisession" checked and everything seems to copy fine
(different files on different days, with the original Nero compilation
saved each time to retain the layout), but many of the files end up
corrupted on the CD-R even though the sizes and names are accurate.
They become unreadable, even with an app like ISOBuster. When I open a
UDF CD-R in ISOBuster I see many different sessions, some with corrupt
files, some without. Usually the corrupted files begin after a certain
date, whereas previous sessions seemed to save with no errors. I
really don't understand the format.

Is Nero UDF or UDF/ISO actually _designed_ to be used for incremental
backup


From Nero Help:

UDF Format
Creating a UDF CD

Please note that Nero does not yet support Multisession UDF-CDs and
that therefore UDF or UDF-Bridge Sessions must be written on blank
CDs.


Just burned a couple of sessions in both CD-ROM (UDF) and CD-ROM
(UDF/ISO) without any problems - despite what Help says - and the files
were all readable. Are you using quality media?


like Nero InCD or Roxio Direct-CD? Years ago, Direct-CD never
gave me problems but I've gone the Nero route for various reasons.

Several CD-RWs formatted with Nero InCD have crashed on me (could be
InCD, could be the brand), which is why I've been trying to use UDF or
UDF/ISO as a substitute. Is there a good FAQ for this somewhere
instead of the scattered forum questions I've found? Nero's program
help is very limited.


Many InCD troubles are caused by conflicts with Roxio junks, like winxp
built-in burn function, WMP burn-plugin, left-over DirectCD files, etc.

Check out (S11) of 'KCK' InCD trouble guide:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9572 (XP)
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9997 (W2K)
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9597 (98x)

  #7  
Old April 17th 04, 11:13 PM
NobodyMan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:08:50 GMT, K2 wrote:

I have tried various techniques of making an incremental backup CD-R
with Nero 5.5.10.54 using UDF and UDF/ISO formats. I mainly want to
backup digital camera photos as months go by, filling up one CD-R at a
time.

I have "Multisession" checked and everything seems to copy fine
(different files on different days, with the original Nero compilation
saved each time to retain the layout), but many of the files end up
corrupted on the CD-R even though the sizes and names are accurate.
They become unreadable, even with an app like ISOBuster. When I open a
UDF CD-R in ISOBuster I see many different sessions, some with corrupt
files, some without. Usually the corrupted files begin after a certain
date, whereas previous sessions seemed to save with no errors. I
really don't understand the format.

Is Nero UDF or UDF/ISO actually _designed_ to be used for incremental
backup like Nero InCD or Roxio Direct-CD? Years ago, Direct-CD never
gave me problems but I've gone the Nero route for various reasons.

Several CD-RWs formatted with Nero InCD have crashed on me (could be
InCD, could be the brand), which is why I've been trying to use UDF or
UDF/ISO as a substitute. Is there a good FAQ for this somewhere
instead of the scattered forum questions I've found? Nero's program
help is very limited.

K2


You seem to have some royally screwed up definitins here. You keep
comparing InCD to UDF, but InCD IS a UDF file system. You can't
compare the two as they are the same thing.

Only a true backup program can provide true backups. I don't think
you want to do incremental backups, which backup everything on your
partition that has had the archive bit set since the last full backup.
You just want to write a few files to the CDRW at a time. That's
fine, but don't call that an incremental backup.

I'm sorry, but any packet-writing program, be it Roxio or Nero, is
flaky. They work fine until they don't, then you are screwed. Use
them long enough and you WILL lose data, as you have eperienced.

Just juse regular, multi-session mastering, on a CDR. CDRWs seem to
have more failures. I have no scientific data to validate that, but
reading here, elsewhere, and talking to others in the profession seem
to indicate that.

  #8  
Old April 18th 04, 12:59 AM
K2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:25:39 GMT, smh wrote:

I have tried various techniques of making an incremental backup CD-R
with Nero 5.5.10.54 using UDF and UDF/ISO formats. I mainly want to
backup digital camera photos as months go by, filling up one CD-R at a
time.


Look up "Data CD (Multisession)" in Nero Help.


Part of my confusion has been based on the concept that UDF is a
newer, "better" format. Apparently it's too new for some things. It
appears to be more geared to DVD recording than CDs.

Is Nero UDF or UDF/ISO actually _designed_ to be used for incremental
backup


From Nero Help:

UDF Format
Creating a UDF CD

Please note that Nero does not yet support Multisession UDF-CDs and
that therefore UDF or UDF-Bridge Sessions must be written on blank
CDs.


I see that, and I don't understand why Nero shows the standard
multisession options in UDF or UDF/ISO mode. It sure makes it look
like multisessions should work with UDF.

Many InCD troubles are caused by conflicts with Roxio junks, like winxp
built-in burn function, WMP burn-plugin, left-over DirectCD files, etc.


My problems with InCD are hard to figure, as it worked mostly
flawlessly until the discs reached a certain capacity. I cleaned out
all the Roxio leftovers I could.

Check out (S11) of 'KCK' InCD trouble guide:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9572 (XP)


Quoting from that link: "In particular, Memorex CD-RW discs are not
recommended."

I had problems with that exact brand, so I'm more suspicious that it's
a disc quality issue.

K2
  #9  
Old April 18th 04, 01:02 AM
K2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:19:31 GMT, smh wrote:

Please note that Nero does not yet support Multisession UDF-CDs and
that therefore UDF or UDF-Bridge Sessions must be written on blank
CDs.


Just burned a couple of sessions in both CD-ROM (UDF) and CD-ROM
(UDF/ISO) without any problems - despite what Help says - and the files
were all readable. Are you using quality media?


For a few weeks I thought the same thing; multisessions seemed to work
fine. Then I noticed recent files were getting corrupted, even though
the burning seemed to go fine and they appeared intact from their size
and names. I'd give it more time if I were you. Be sure you actually
try to launch the files you've copied.

K2
  #10  
Old April 18th 04, 01:52 AM
smh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)

K2 wrote:
smh wrote:

I have tried various techniques of making an incremental backup CD-R
with Nero 5.5.10.54 using UDF and UDF/ISO formats. I mainly want to
backup digital camera photos as months go by, filling up one CD-R at a
time.


Look up "Data CD (Multisession)" in Nero Help.


Part of my confusion has been based on the concept that UDF is a
newer, "better" format. Apparently it's too new for some things. It
appears to be more geared to DVD recording than CDs.


Here's an article on the "advantages" of udf:
http://www.softarch.com/us/products/UDFproductlist.html


Many InCD troubles are caused by conflicts with Roxio junks, like winxp
built-in burn function, WMP burn-plugin, left-over DirectCD files, etc.


My problems with InCD are hard to figure, as it worked mostly
flawlessly until the discs reached a certain capacity. I cleaned out
all the Roxio leftovers I could.


Try Roxizap:
http://softwareupdates.roxio.com/gm/...ls/roxizap.exe

Check out (S11) of 'KCK' InCD trouble guide:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9572 (XP)


Quoting from that link: "In particular, Memorex CD-RW discs are not
recommended."

I had problems with that exact brand, so I'm more suspicious that it's
a disc quality issue.


Memorex CD-RW "reputation" is well known. Compounding the problem is
writing to faster media than the burner. For example, DirectCD allowed
that!
 




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