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Yet another person with a "long file names" dilemma.



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 25th 03, 11:19 AM
John Corliss
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Howard Kaikow wrote:
UDF is not tied to the media type.
You can create UDF or UDFISO or ,,, with CD-R media.
I've done this with Nero 5.5.


Thanks Howard. Poly pointed this out also. Gonna give it a whirl.

--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html

  #12  
Old July 25th 03, 11:30 AM
John Corliss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
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GMAN wrote:
Copy all of the data back to 4 independent folders on your harddrive, then
burn cdr masters using joliet format


GMAN,
This is real similar to what I'd rather do, which is to create CD
images on the hard drive and copy from them. This will remove any
lingering dangers of buffer underrun and will allow faster burns too
(maybe.)

--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html

  #13  
Old July 25th 03, 12:35 PM
John Corliss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ric wrote:
I feel for you, man. I've been through the long filename delimma myself.
Recently sent Nero a heartrending plea to finally add some decent long
filename support to what is an otherwise excellent program.


It makes one wonder why none of the CD burner software companies
haven't seized on this issue to get a leg up on their competitors.
This is a HUGE factor in purchase decision making for many people. The
Mt. Rainier format has great promise though:

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/...ort_Print.mspx

click on "Why Mt. Rainier?"

But in the meantime, as far as I know, there are only 2 programs worth
looking at for long filename support. The free one is called Burn at Once:
www.burnatonce.com which has a mode called: iso9660:1999 which allows for
filenames of up to 207 characters. Keep in mind that the filename also
includes the path, and I think it currently has a bug so that it looks at
the path/filename length of the originating file rather than the filename on
the destination CD which may be shorter do to a different folder structure.
So depending on how long your filenames are and how deep a folder structure
you want to use, this may be adequate for you. It's definitely an
improvement over even relaxed joliet formats, which generally don't give
more than 103 or 128 characters, including path.


I've looked at this one, but the Adaptec ASPI 4.60 issue concerns me:

http://www.burnatonce.com/forums/ind...act=ST&f=4&t=3

Still, it's definitely worth working through the issue and giving it a
try.

If your filenames are too long for BAO, your other option is one of the


I presume you mean "DAO"? Of course, with the plethora of formats and
standards regarding CD burning one never knows.

programs based on Veritas burn engine (originally developed by Prassi, I
believe). This offers a mode called "iso level 2 long" which supports
filenames up to 212 characters. Recently, I discovered I've been able to
burn CDs in this format where the filename with the path is longer than 212,
so I suspect that 212 may be for the filename itself, and not the entire
path/filename. Take a look over at www.stompinc.com. I use RecordNow Max but
I think there are some cheaper versions that have the same mode. This is the
only program I've successfully been able to use to archive my files which
generally have very long, descriptive names.


A guy in the alt.comp.freeware group named "Dadioh"
(http://www.gbronline.com/xico/) told me about a guide he'd made to
successful burning. Following his directions, I tried to install
Sony's "CDExtreme", then the Sony update patch and then the Prassi
patch, but the end result was that I only got an error message when I
tried to run the program.
Still, if Stomp will install and run, it's definitely worth
looking at.

Now, I know CDs burned in these formats are readable without any special
software on Windows XP, and I'm pretty sure at some point I tried to read
one successfully on a Win98 machine, but I'm not 100% certain. I have no
idea what they would look like to a Mac, Linux, other machine, so if you
need these CDs to be universally recognized I suggest you e-mail Stomp and


Not really a problem since nobody in my family uses anything but MS
Windows machines.

ask about this before spending your money. Of course, I believe they have a


I just sent them an email.

trial version so you could just try it for yourself and see if it works.


They do, but "DLA" (their UDF format) is not included in the trial. 80(

As far as I understand, UDF supports long filenames up to 255 characters
including path (which is the same limitation as most OSes today have) and
I've burned UDF format CDs in Nero, but Nero does not allow filenames this
long, nor any other program I've tried even when utilizing UDF mode. I
suspect this is an implementation problem more than a standards problem. I


Yup. Undoubtedly. And I've played hell finding a good description of
the file name limitations for various formats because different
companies implement them in different ways. As I said in my OP, "it's
a literal Tower of Babel."

know DVDs are generally burned using UDF but I don't have a DVD burner so I
have no idea if they are more flexible with filenames or not. Although,
given the size of your archive DVD would be more convenient .


I totally agree. My cousin has a DVD burner and it might be worth
looking at. It would have to be on DVD-R media though. If re-writeable
DVD media is anything like CDRW, it's not worth the plastic used to
make it.

The other option is to create a .zip or .rar file containing your pictures.
So in your case you could put all your pictures in 4 700MB .zip files and
burn each to a CD. This will get around any filename limitations and most
computers can extract files for a .zip archive easily enough. Assuming your
pictures are in JPEG format you won't get much if anything by way of
compression, but all your files will be encapsulated in a single file with a
short filename. In the unlikely event you're using uncompressed TIFF files


When I was producing the archive, some of the raw .tif images were
over 100 mb in size. I went with .jpg format using as little
compression as possible. They turned out very nicely, since after
resampling down to a reasonable 3 megapixels, the resulting .jpg file
size varied only from around 250 kb to 1.2 mb. To get the smaller file
size, I reduced the palette size by averaging the image. But I
digress. Sorry.

then this process would double how much you could put on a CD.


This .zip file idea is a real good one. I'm going to look at it. Don't
know, however, if a file that large will transfer successfully. Worth
giving it a go though.

All in all, I still think RecordNow Max is the way to go...


Ric,
Thank you very much for taking the time to compose your very
helpful reply. Your suggestions are all good ones and I'll be giving
each of them very serious consideration.

--
Thanks and regards from John Corliss

  #14  
Old July 25th 03, 01:39 PM
John Corliss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Corliss wrote:
Poly wrote:
(clipped)
If you use Roxio EasyCD, you can burn CD-Rs with UDF - no problem - do it
all the time.


Poly,
You're correct. Found it in:

File/CD Project Properties/File System:/UDF.

Never would have found it without your pointing out the possibility.
I hope it allows long enough file names when done in that module though.
I'll sacrifice a CDR to find out. Thanks for the tip.


Poly,
I just succeeded in creating a copy of the first disc on a blank
CDRW using EasyCD Creator in UDF. However, when I try to read the disc
in Explorer, I get the following error message:

"(folder name) is not accessible.
An attempt was made to load a program with an incorrect format.
[OK]"

Where "folder name" is the name of the folder I'm trying to open. Back
to the drawing board.

--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html

  #15  
Old July 25th 03, 03:21 PM
mark24951
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Corliss wrote:
Ric wrote:

I feel for you, man. I've been through the long filename delimma myself.
Recently sent Nero a heartrending plea to finally add some decent long
filename support to what is an otherwise excellent program.



It makes one wonder why none of the CD burner software companies haven't
seized on this issue to get a leg up on their competitors. This is a
HUGE factor in purchase decision making for many people. The Mt. Rainier
format has great promise though:

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/...ort_Print.mspx


click on "Why Mt. Rainier?"

But in the meantime, as far as I know, there are only 2 programs worth
looking at for long filename support. The free one is called Burn at
Once:
www.burnatonce.com which has a mode called: iso9660:1999 which allows for
filenames of up to 207 characters. Keep in mind that the filename also
includes the path, and I think it currently has a bug so that it looks at
the path/filename length of the originating file rather than the
filename on
the destination CD which may be shorter do to a different folder
structure.
So depending on how long your filenames are and how deep a folder
structure
you want to use, this may be adequate for you. It's definitely an
improvement over even relaxed joliet formats, which generally don't give
more than 103 or 128 characters, including path.



I've looked at this one, but the Adaptec ASPI 4.60 issue concerns me:

http://www.burnatonce.com/forums/ind...act=ST&f=4&t=3

Still, it's definitely worth working through the issue and giving it a try.

If your filenames are too long for BAO, your other option is one of the



I presume you mean "DAO"? Of course, with the plethora of formats and
standards regarding CD burning one never knows.

programs based on Veritas burn engine (originally developed by Prassi, I
believe). This offers a mode called "iso level 2 long" which supports
filenames up to 212 characters. Recently, I discovered I've been able to
burn CDs in this format where the filename with the path is longer
than 212,
so I suspect that 212 may be for the filename itself, and not the entire
path/filename. Take a look over at www.stompinc.com. I use RecordNow
Max but
I think there are some cheaper versions that have the same mode. This
is the
only program I've successfully been able to use to archive my files which
generally have very long, descriptive names.



A guy in the alt.comp.freeware group named "Dadioh"
(http://www.gbronline.com/xico/) told me about a guide he'd made to
successful burning. Following his directions, I tried to install Sony's
"CDExtreme", then the Sony update patch and then the Prassi patch, but
the end result was that I only got an error message when I tried to run
the program.
Still, if Stomp will install and run, it's definitely worth looking at.

Now, I know CDs burned in these formats are readable without any special
software on Windows XP, and I'm pretty sure at some point I tried to read
one successfully on a Win98 machine, but I'm not 100% certain. I have no
idea what they would look like to a Mac, Linux, other machine, so if you
need these CDs to be universally recognized I suggest you e-mail Stomp
and



Not really a problem since nobody in my family uses anything but MS
Windows machines.

ask about this before spending your money. Of course, I believe they
have a



I just sent them an email.

trial version so you could just try it for yourself and see if it works.



They do, but "DLA" (their UDF format) is not included in the trial. 80(

As far as I understand, UDF supports long filenames up to 255 characters
including path (which is the same limitation as most OSes today have) and
I've burned UDF format CDs in Nero, but Nero does not allow filenames
this
long, nor any other program I've tried even when utilizing UDF mode. I
suspect this is an implementation problem more than a standards
problem. I



Yup. Undoubtedly. And I've played hell finding a good description of the
file name limitations for various formats because different companies
implement them in different ways. As I said in my OP, "it's a literal
Tower of Babel."

know DVDs are generally burned using UDF but I don't have a DVD burner
so I
have no idea if they are more flexible with filenames or not. Although,
given the size of your archive DVD would be more convenient .



I totally agree. My cousin has a DVD burner and it might be worth
looking at. It would have to be on DVD-R media though. If re-writeable
DVD media is anything like CDRW, it's not worth the plastic used to make
it.

The other option is to create a .zip or .rar file containing your
pictures.
So in your case you could put all your pictures in 4 700MB .zip files and
burn each to a CD. This will get around any filename limitations and most
computers can extract files for a .zip archive easily enough. Assuming
your
pictures are in JPEG format you won't get much if anything by way of
compression, but all your files will be encapsulated in a single file
with a
short filename. In the unlikely event you're using uncompressed TIFF
files



When I was producing the archive, some of the raw .tif images were over
100 mb in size. I went with .jpg format using as little compression as
possible. They turned out very nicely, since after resampling down to a
reasonable 3 megapixels, the resulting .jpg file size varied only from
around 250 kb to 1.2 mb. To get the smaller file size, I reduced the
palette size by averaging the image. But I digress. Sorry.

then this process would double how much you could put on a CD.



This .zip file idea is a real good one. I'm going to look at it. Don't
know, however, if a file that large will transfer successfully. Worth
giving it a go though.


All in all, I still think RecordNow Max is the way to go...



Ric,
Thank you very much for taking the time to compose your very helpful
reply. Your suggestions are all good ones and I'll be giving each of
them very serious consideration.


New Burnatonce does not require ASPI to burn. look at it again


  #16  
Old July 25th 03, 04:30 PM
Howard Kaikow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Roxio and Nero don't play nice together.

In another post in this thread, I pointed out that Roxio EasyWrite would not
work in Win 98.
So I installed InCD's Easy Wrote too.
Was able to read the media, but then got a BSOD.

There is nothing inherent in the design of ISO 9660 or ISO/IEC 13346 that is
tied to the hardware, I and others made sure of that.

--
http://www.standards.com/; Howard Kaikow's web site.
------------------------------------------------
"John Corliss" wrote in message
...
Howard Kaikow wrote:
UDF can be created so that it is readable on ISO 9660 compliant systems,

but
the point was of wanting longer file names.


Right. I don't think that anybody in the family is going to object to
installing the Roxio UDF Reader. Not sure if it will still try to
install if Nero is on a system, but my instructions in the letter I
composed to go along with the CDs say not to bother installing the
Roxio UDF Reader if Nero is installed.
As a side note, when I installed Nero a to give it a try a short
time back, installation of their UDF reader kept causing my computer
to not want to boot (this was with absolutely NO Roxio software on the
system, since I'd done a reformat and reinstallation from scratch
without installing Roxio.) In the end, I uninstalled that module in
Safe Mode, installed the Roxio UDF reader and it worked with Nero
perfectly.

--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html



  #17  
Old July 25th 03, 06:36 PM
John Corliss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

mark24951 wrote:

New Burnatonce does not require ASPI to burn. look at it again


Thanks, but that's only in Win2K/XP. I'm running ME.
When I got this computer I special ordered ME (would have
preferred W98, but it wasn't available from the vendor) because I need
to run legacy hardware that there are not any good XP drivers for.
RantAlso, I will NEVER run an OS that requires "product activation".
In fact, I wouldn't run XP if you held a gun to my head.
When my huge project is over, I will be dumping M$ and going with
Linux./Rant

--
Regards from John Corliss

  #18  
Old July 25th 03, 09:27 PM
Howard Kaikow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ISO 9660 has not been revised since 1988.

There is nothing within ISO 9660 that prevents certain longer file names,
however, the resulting media is non-standard.
However, compliance with ISO 9660 does not preclude a standard conforming
reading implementation to read non-standard ISO 9660 media and there are
implementation fields within ISO 9660 that can be used for "whatever".

But ISO 9660 itself has not been changed.

ISO messed up the initial publication in April 1988 so badly, that I was
able to get ISO to republish with some corrections in September 1988.

There have not been any changes to ISO 9660.
That's why ISO/IEC 13346, the basis of UDF, and ISO/IEC 13490, the basis for
packet writing and multisession, were developed.
See http://www.standards.com/index.html#Standards.

--
http://www.standards.com/; Howard Kaikow's web site.
------------------------------------------------
"smh" wrote in message
...
Howard Kaikow wrote:

I'd be wary of any program that had a mode called "iso9660:1999".
ISO 9660 has not been modified since its publication in September 1988
(ignore the April 1988 edition).


There must have been one:

=====================
From: Mike Richter (King Troll)
Subject: Long filenames without Joliet?
Date: 6/14/03

Paul M wrote:

If you examine a Microsoft Windows XP or 2000 CD using
Nero InfoTool (or even IsoBuster), you will notice that
it lists only ISO9660 under File System. Since the XP
or 2000 CD contains some files with long filenames, how
was Microsoft able to create a CD with long filenames
using only the ISO9660 file system?


By using the LFN extension to ISO 9660. Strict ISO 9660 is the most
widely compatible format, but the extension relaxes both character set
and length.
=====================



  #19  
Old July 25th 03, 09:33 PM
smh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Howard Kaikow wrote:

ISO 9660 has not been revised since 1988.


I am not disputing that. But Mikey does:

" the LFN extension to ISO 9660 "

There is nothing within ISO 9660 that prevents certain longer file names,
however, the resulting media is non-standard.
However, compliance with ISO 9660 does not preclude a standard conforming
reading implementation to read non-standard ISO 9660 media and there are
implementation fields within ISO 9660 that can be used for "whatever".

But ISO 9660 itself has not been changed.

ISO messed up the initial publication in April 1988 so badly, that I was
able to get ISO to republish with some corrections in September 1988.

There have not been any changes to ISO 9660.
That's why ISO/IEC 13346, the basis of UDF, and ISO/IEC 13490, the basis for
packet writing and multisession, were developed.
See http://www.standards.com/index.html#Standards.


"smh" wrote...
Howard Kaikow wrote:

I'd be wary of any program that had a mode called "iso9660:1999".
ISO 9660 has not been modified since its publication in September 1988
(ignore the April 1988 edition).


There must have been one:

=====================
From: Mike Richter (King Troll)
Subject: Long filenames without Joliet?
Date: 6/14/03

Paul M wrote:

If you examine a Microsoft Windows XP or 2000 CD using
Nero InfoTool (or even IsoBuster), you will notice that
it lists only ISO9660 under File System. Since the XP
or 2000 CD contains some files with long filenames, how
was Microsoft able to create a CD with long filenames
using only the ISO9660 file system?


By using the LFN extension to ISO 9660. Strict ISO 9660 is the most
widely compatible format, but the extension relaxes both character set
and length.
=====================


  #20  
Old July 25th 03, 11:00 PM
smh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------
(Reduced to living off the trash?)
( "... my thanks to Tim ..." )

======================================
Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/winme)(i)
======================================

===========================================
Mike Richter (Lying Scum) wrote (10/20/02):

Have Liteon 24x10x40 IDE CDR, WIN WE system.

I have upgraded the ASPI layer to version 4.7 using an update from
Adaptec but I wasn't aware ASPI was required for IDE anyway.


...install a current, consistent copy such as Adaptec's...


ASPI on Win ME, Richter?

---------------------
From: Mike Richter (Lying Scum)
Subject: ASPI Layer and Adaptec/Roxio CD software - Help
Date: 4/6/01

the ASPI layer should not be installed in WinMe.
---------------------
===========================================

----------------------------
Mikey, you are a Lying Scum!
----------------------------


==========================================
ASPI Kills Win ME - Adrian Miller (cRoxio)
==========================================

=====================
From: Mike Richter (King Troll)
Subject: ASPI Layer and Adaptec/Roxio CD software - Help
Date: 4/6/01

the ASPI layer should not be installed in WinMe.

=====================
From: Mike Richter (cRoxio Shill)
Date: 4/7/01

WinMe definitely should not use the ASPI layer.

=====================
From: Adrian Miller (cRoxio)
Subject: The Adaptec ASPI layer on Windows 2000 and Me
Date: 7/4/01

I have plenty of evidence to prove that installing
the Adaptec ASPI into Me can wind up killing the OS === KILL ===

=====================
From: Mike Richter (Lying Scum)
Subject: ASPI, W2K, and the truth
Date: 8/2/01

... but he [Adrian Miller] does provide reliable information
when he has it in my experience.

( I have seen some of the reports Adrian has of disaster in WinMe
and would not trust it in that OS - if I trusted the OS at all. )

=====================
From: William Leech -- Moderator of no less than advanced cdr list!
Date: 11/21/01

... I've had to recover a W2K machine where ASPI had been used.
Likewise a WinMe machine.

The cause was definitely the ASPI layer.

======================


 




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