Audio CD's: Do copies of copies degrade quality?

Let me clarify, because I am NOT pirating audio CD's! Using EAC (Exact
Audio Copy), I have copied 50 or so of MY original audio CD's for use in
my car CD player. All is well and good, and as usual EAC lives up to
its [more than deserved] reputation.

Now, I need to make a second set of copies for my wife to play in her
car CD. I am thinking of just using Clone CD to copy my copies and be
done with it, because it would be a hell of lot faster than doing it all
over again via EAC. My question is, will copying my copies (even with
Clone CD), somehow degrade the sound? I'd like to hear some of your
thoughts on this, please. TIA.

J.

--
--------
The end to "Personal Computing" as we know it is just around the corner.
TCPA will take away ALL rights from you, the consumer. Learn more
about it he http://www.againsttcpa.com/what-is-tcpa.html

jack wrote:
Let me clarify, because I am NOT pirating audio CD's! Using EAC
(Exact Audio Copy), I have copied 50 or so of MY original audio CD's
for use in my car CD player. All is well and good, and as usual EAC
lives up to its [more than deserved] reputation.

Now, I need to make a second set of copies for my wife to play in her
car CD. I am thinking of just using Clone CD to copy my copies and be
done with it, because it would be a hell of lot faster than doing it
all over again via EAC. My question is, will copying my copies (even
with Clone CD), somehow degrade the sound? I'd like to hear some of
your thoughts on this, please. TIA.

J.

Copying copies - if you use EAC will not result in degradation.

Clone CD may be fine for copying data discs, but I wouldn't put it anywhere
near audio, unless there was no other way of copying the disc.

Copying the original discs with EAC is likely to be faster than copying the
copies. Inevitably they will be easier to read.

I have not tried it with IDE drives, but with SCSI you can rip with EAC
while burning with (say) Nero, which saves even more time.

EAC will also complete the full disc copy process if required.

And yes, this would be considered pirating :-) You may just be able to argue
in favour of a backup copy, but multiple copies would raise a few eyebrows
in the recording industry.

--

Graham Mayor

over again via EAC. My question is, will copying my copies (even with
Clone CD), somehow degrade the sound?

No, unless there are reading errors.
That's why EAC is used.
EAC will tell you if there are reading errors (if you configure it
correctly).

Of course, using CloneCD to copy audio discs is not a good idea.
It's not more accurate and usually leads to more problems than other
programs.
CloneCD is able to accept reading errors as normal, because it's designed to
bypass copy protections.

But reading errors in audio discs shouldn't be accepted. The program has to
retry when it finds reading errors.

If you want the speed of CloneCD, use something like Feurio or Nero. Both
rip in burst mode, and can burn "on the fly" or with an image.

Totally false; bit for bit perfect is just what it implies and it is
relatively easy with a good reader and s/w to produce (and prove). That
leaves only the pregaps, sub-channel data and sector offset to
reproduce; again easily done and provable...

OP is on the wrong track with mental methodology in 'copying the copies'
however. EAC shines in *reading* the disc exactly multiple times and
comparing the results; CloneCD won't do that. IMO OP would check out
Feurio for his day to day audio 'chores'... then he wouldn't be
*dreading* the thought of recopying all those titles using EAC...g

Hey we're making CAR COPIES here; not working on a Smithsonian project!
I'd be doing this on the fly drive to drive using Feurio and enjoying
(through day to day experience) a 99.9%+ success rate making a 'perfect'
copy...

Tim K

www.feurio.com for a free unrestricted demo

"John Nichols" wrote in message
. ..
No copy, no matter how it's done, will be exactly the same as the
original.
With that said, digital copies of Audio CD's do come very close to the
original.
IMHO, I doubt very much you will be able to hear any differences.

John Nichols


"jack" wrote in message
...
Let me clarify, because I am NOT pirating audio CD's! Using EAC
(Exact
Audio Copy), I have copied 50 or so of MY original audio CD's for
use in
my car CD player. All is well and good, and as usual EAC lives up
to
its [more than deserved] reputation.

Now, I need to make a second set of copies for my wife to play in
her
car CD. I am thinking of just using Clone CD to copy my copies and
be
done with it, because it would be a hell of lot faster than doing it
all
over again via EAC. My question is, will copying my copies (even
with
Clone CD), somehow degrade the sound? I'd like to hear some of your
thoughts on this, please. TIA.

J.

--
--------
The end to "Personal Computing" as we know it is just around the
corner.
TCPA will take away ALL rights from you, the consumer. Learn more
about it he http://www.againsttcpa.com/what-is-tcpa.html

jack wrote:
Let me clarify, because I am NOT pirating audio CD's! Using EAC (Exact
Audio Copy), I have copied 50 or so of MY original audio CD's for use in
my car CD player. All is well and good, and as usual EAC lives up to
its [more than deserved] reputation.

Now, I need to make a second set of copies for my wife to play in her
car CD. I am thinking of just using Clone CD to copy my copies and be
done with it, because it would be a hell of lot faster than doing it all
over again via EAC. My question is, will copying my copies (even with
Clone CD), somehow degrade the sound? I'd like to hear some of your
thoughts on this, please. TIA.

An imperfect copy, which may be what CloneCD gives your depending on
your equipment, will invoke error concealment on playback and will
slightly degrade the sound. I doubt that she would hear that on a car
stereo unless she listened critically with fine equipment with the motor
off.

Mike
--

http://www.mrichter.com/

"Chip" wrote in message
...
:
snip

: This *is* pirating CD's isn't it? Making a copy for yourself - fine.
But
: making copies for other people? Would you argue that its also OK to
make
: copies for your mate's car as well? And the rest of the football
team?
: Where does it end?
:
: Don't get me wrong - I am not having a go at you and frankly I am not
: bothered one way or the other.
:
: It just struck me as rather odd that you should proclaim that you are
not
: pirating CD's when blatantly, you are.
:
Well, these are MY CD's, I paid for them. My wife and I switch cars
constantly, and having duplicate sets of MY CD's in both cars makes
sense. I'm not turning around and selling my copies, and I'm not giving
them away to friends. So I reject your comment that I'm "blatantly
pirating", and if you or RIAA or anyone else disagrees then they can
just kiss my a$$. I spent a lot of money collecting CD's over the last
20 years or so, and if I want to make two copies of my original instead
of just one, well that's exactly what I'm gonna do. In fact, f**k the
RIAA and the horse they rode in on!

J.

"XPG" wrote in message
...
:
: over again via EAC. My question is, will copying my copies (even
with
: Clone CD), somehow degrade the sound?
:
: No, unless there are reading errors.
: That's why EAC is used.
: EAC will tell you if there are reading errors (if you configure it
: correctly).
:
: Of course, using CloneCD to copy audio discs is not a good idea.
: It's not more accurate and usually leads to more problems than other
: programs.
: CloneCD is able to accept reading errors as normal, because it's
designed to
: bypass copy protections.
:
: But reading errors in audio discs shouldn't be accepted. The program
has to
: retry when it finds reading errors.
:
: If you want the speed of CloneCD, use something like Feurio or Nero.
Both
: rip in burst mode, and can burn "on the fly" or with an image.
:

Yeah ok, that was my gut feeling too (that CloneCD was not a good idea).
So I guess at this point I'll just stick with EAC because that's what I
know (been using it for at least 3 years) and I've really got it
tweaked. Thanks for the input. ;-)

J.

"Tim Kroesen" wrote in message
...
: Totally false; bit for bit perfect is just what it implies and it is
: relatively easy with a good reader and s/w to produce (and prove).
That
: leaves only the pregaps, sub-channel data and sector offset to
: reproduce; again easily done and provable...
:
: OP is on the wrong track with mental methodology in 'copying the
copies'
: however. EAC shines in *reading* the disc exactly multiple times and
: comparing the results; CloneCD won't do that. IMO OP would check out
: Feurio for his day to day audio 'chores'... then he wouldn't be
: *dreading* the thought of recopying all those titles using EAC...g

Heh heh...that's why I posted in the first place....to see if I was
anywhere **near** the tracks. ;-) The only reason I was thinking about
doing it this way was strictly as a time saver. CloneCD would
definitely be faster than EAC, and since all my first-gen copies are
sitting right here all together in a CD-binder, I wouldn't have to go
through my collection and dig out the originals again. So this was
strictly a "lazyness approach" which, after reading other posts in this
thread, I have decided NOT to do. I'll stick with EAC.

:
: Hey we're making CAR COPIES here; not working on a Smithsonian
project!
: I'd be doing this on the fly drive to drive using Feurio and enjoying
: (through day to day experience) a 99.9%+ success rate making a
'perfect'
: copy...

I have no desire (or time) to learn yet another piece of software.
Sounds like you're happy with Feurio and that's great, but I simply
don't have the time (at this point in time) and can't make the
time....I've simply run out of time. ;-)) Thanks for the input.

J.

"jack" wrote in message
...
"Chip" wrote in message
...
:
snip

: This *is* pirating CD's isn't it? Making a copy for yourself - fine.
But
: making copies for other people? Would you argue that its also OK to
make
: copies for your mate's car as well? And the rest of the football
team?
: Where does it end?
:
: Don't get me wrong - I am not having a go at you and frankly I am not
: bothered one way or the other.
:
: It just struck me as rather odd that you should proclaim that you are
not
: pirating CD's when blatantly, you are.
:
Well, these are MY CD's, I paid for them. My wife and I switch cars
constantly, and having duplicate sets of MY CD's in both cars makes
sense. I'm not turning around and selling my copies, and I'm not giving
them away to friends. So I reject your comment that I'm "blatantly
pirating", and if you or RIAA or anyone else disagrees then they can
just kiss my a$$. I spent a lot of money collecting CD's over the last
20 years or so, and if I want to make two copies of my original instead
of just one, well that's exactly what I'm gonna do. In fact, f**k the
RIAA and the horse they rode in on!

J.

Hey Jack, like I said I have no axe to grind here. I couldn't give a toss
if you want to make 100 copies.

But copying *your* CD's for your wife to listen to is pirating. You can
argue all you like about what to call it.

Chip.

"Chip" wrote in message
...
: "jack" wrote in message
: ...
: "Chip" wrote in message
: ...
: :
: snip
:
: : This *is* pirating CD's isn't it? Making a copy for yourself -
fine.
: But
: : making copies for other people? Would you argue that its also OK
to
: make
: : copies for your mate's car as well? And the rest of the football
: team?
: : Where does it end?
: :
: : Don't get me wrong - I am not having a go at you and frankly I am
not
: : bothered one way or the other.
: :
: : It just struck me as rather odd that you should proclaim that you
are
: not
: : pirating CD's when blatantly, you are.
: :
: Well, these are MY CD's, I paid for them. My wife and I switch cars
: constantly, and having duplicate sets of MY CD's in both cars makes
: sense. I'm not turning around and selling my copies, and I'm not
giving
: them away to friends. So I reject your comment that I'm "blatantly
: pirating", and if you or RIAA or anyone else disagrees then they can
: just kiss my a$$. I spent a lot of money collecting CD's over the
last
: 20 years or so, and if I want to make two copies of my original
instead
: of just one, well that's exactly what I'm gonna do. In fact, f**k
the
: RIAA and the horse they rode in on!
:
: J.
:
: Hey Jack, like I said I have no axe to grind here. I couldn't give a
toss
: if you want to make 100 copies.
:
: But copying *your* CD's for your wife to listen to is pirating. You
can
: argue all you like about what to call it.
:
Did you read what I just wrote? I said we switch cars all the time (I
realize I did NOT say this in my OP). So I (or we) am listening to the
same music in two different cars. Yeah, my wife plays the CD's too, but
I would hardly go as far as to say I'm pirating them because SHE is
listening as well. Anyway, I call 'em as I see 'em, and that is how I
see it, and that is how it is. So call me pirate, I don't agree and
simply couldn't give a **** anyway. The music is paid for, and I'll do
with it as I see fit. Later.

J.