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  #1  
Old February 5th 17, 09:01 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Bill Cunningham[_2_]
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Posts: 42
Default motherboards

I make this post in curiosity. My computer is getting a bit aged. But
still going Now a reasonable motherboard with a 32 bit processor, what
would a reasonable one go for? For those that keep up on this. I bought a
motherboard once and put it in a case. I fired it up and it was dead
immediately. I forgot to put spacers between the board and case. So it
fried.

What I got on ebay was a motherboard and a package of scews spacers and
"stuff" no instructions.

Bill


  #2  
Old February 5th 17, 11:35 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
John McGaw
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Posts: 732
Default motherboards

On 2/5/2017 3:01 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
I make this post in curiosity. My computer is getting a bit aged. But
still going Now a reasonable motherboard with a 32 bit processor, what
would a reasonable one go for? For those that keep up on this. I bought a
motherboard once and put it in a case. I fired it up and it was dead
immediately. I forgot to put spacers between the board and case. So it
fried.

What I got on ebay was a motherboard and a package of scews spacers and
"stuff" no instructions.

Bill


Do you _really_ want a 32-bit CPU? If so, why? I think that the only
semi-modern 32-bit mainstream processor would be something like an Intel
Atom; otherwise you'd be going back to one of the early Pentium chips.
Advice: forget the 32-bit and buy a packaged motherboard/memory/CPU
solution from someone who knows what they are doing. I'd suspect that a
motherboard with i3 and cooling with 8gB could be found for $300 although
I haven't done any detailed searching. Oh, and be careful about mounting
and connections...
  #3  
Old February 5th 17, 11:51 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default motherboards

Bill Cunningham wrote:
I make this post in curiosity. My computer is getting a bit aged. But
still going Now a reasonable motherboard with a 32 bit processor, what
would a reasonable one go for? For those that keep up on this. I bought a
motherboard once and put it in a case. I fired it up and it was dead
immediately. I forgot to put spacers between the board and case. So it
fried.

What I got on ebay was a motherboard and a package of scews spacers and
"stuff" no instructions.

Bill


You can go to a local computer store
and ask "do you build custom computers
from scratch" ? And they can help you.

My very first PC, I was working at the time,
and didn't have time to mess around. My buddy at
work, told me about a computer store that built
a PC for him, and the build portion costs $100.
So for $100 over parts cost, they took care of
*everything*. The machine booted into the version
of Windows at the time, and everything just worked.
I could not find a detail that was missed. The
company provided the motherboard box, software CDs,
left over parts (the bag of screws, the 5.25"
bay sliders for hard drives, and so on). They didn't
keep stuff for themselves, like some scumbags do.

So they can take care, to make sure there are no
shorts, no mistakes, while doing assembly.

The store I visited, at the time, was standing room
only. You lined up to place your order. The store
is gone now - bankrupt. Because it carried around
$1 million in inventory, and a key customer (the
government) stopped buying there. The business
died instantly.

The computer store I used, had a "short list" of
motherboards. These are motherboards that have
demonstrated they worked well. So automatically,
you avoided any questionable materials. That motherboard
still works today - I booted it a couple months ago.

OS support is part of the complicated picture
of what to buy. Windows 7 and Windows 8, still
have some life left in their lifespan, but Microsoft
is not going to be "helpful" with things like Kaby
Lake. The computer will still compute, but it might
not save as many watts as it could if it had the
right OS support. To me, this is noise, but
could be a factor in your selection.

These are random CPUs I spotted on the Newegg page today,
in chronological order.

LGA1155 Launch Date Q1'11, 32nm, orig ??? now $228
This one is refurbished. i5-2500
4 Core, No Hyperthreading
Power converter still on motherboard.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16819117626
http://ark.intel.com/products/52209/...up-to-3_70-GHz


LGA1150 Launch Date Q2'13, 22nm, orig $242 now $268
Haswell - power converter FIVR circuit, is inside CPU.
4 Core, No Hyperthreading

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16819116899
http://ark.intel.com/products/75048/...up-to-3_80-GHz


LGA1151 Skylake Launch Date Q3'15, 14nm, $340
Power converter back on motherboard.
4 Core, 8 Thread (Hyperthreading, slight boost over 4 core)
CPU base can be "bent" by your cooler choice.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16819117559
http://ark.intel.com/products/88195/...up-to-4_20-GHz


LGA1151 Kaby Lake Launch Date Q1'17, 14nm, $350
Power converter back on motherboard.
4 Core, 8 Thread (Hyperthreading, slight boost over 4 core)
CPU base probably still bendable (as socket not changed)
Kaby has quicker EIST state changes (not supported on Win7)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16819117726
http://ark.intel.com/products/97129/...up-to-4_50-GHz

They would all be supported on Windows 10.

Now, let's have a bake-off.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/
(also http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html chart)

i5-2500 $228 Passmark= 6243 SingleThread= 1871 3.3GHz 4C/4T 6MB cache
i5-4670K $268 Passmark= 7603 SingleThread= 2195 3.4GHz 4C/4T 6MB cache
i7-6700K $340 Passmark= 11109 SingleThread= 2349 4.0GHz 4C/8T 8MB cache
i7-7700K $350 Passmark= 12263 SingleThread= 2592 4.2GHz 4C/8T 8MB cache

You can see that HyperThreading inflates the first metric.
In normal everyday usage, a SingleThread benchmark is more
indicative. We don't know in this case, what was used. I
use SuperPI for single thread checks, with a large base size,
to reduce the impact of L3 as my metric.

There were likely to have been 4C/8T processors in the
older products, but they've disappeared from the market,
and so this contest isn't "a level playing field". I'm just
showing what kind of stock is sitting around at the moment.

The one at 4.2GHz, probably overclocks to around 4.5GHz. The
letter "K" means they can be overclocked using multipliers
only. But the headroom, percentage-wise, may not be the
same on all families.

The 4670K LGA1150 might fit into a board like this. The Z97 has
native USB3. You have to download the user manual for each
motherboard, to make sure it has the interfaces you need.
And verify the USB3 ports don't come from an add-on
chip you don't happen to like (eTron drivers).

MSI Gaming Z97 GAMING 5 LGA 1150 $151
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA1N83UN2408

Info on Z97
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1150

The later boards, for the more recent Skylake or Kaby Lake,
may use Z170 or Z270 chipsets, with XHCI-only USB3 ports. This
can cause problems for Windows 7 installer booting up, unless
there is a BIOS hack for "faking" EHCI in the BIOS.

Not all of the CPUs come with heatsinks. The overclockable
ones probably don't have a cooler in the box. You'd need to
buy a cooler separately for those.

You don't buy this stuff in a heartbeat - it takes time
to digest lots and lots of tiny details.

*******

Ryzen is coming soon from AMD. Stay tuned. If you waited
for it, you'd get "whatever broken-ness comes with a bleeding
edge product". And I don't know if any pricing has been
announced, to see how AMD plans to price. In the past,
the prices were set by "pseudo-benchmark". You could
see, from a certain performance metric point of view,
how the AMD was priced. Not every buyer would appreciate
the nuances there (i.e. people look at the numbers and
can't figure out how the price is, what it is). But if
you pretend to be an AMD marketing person, and sit in
their seat, there is a kind of logic to how it works.
There is definitely *not* a relationship between
square inches of silicon, and what you're paying.
You pay a lot extra for clock rate, even if no
more silicon is used.

I didn't set out to select a product for you. You
didn't say what you wanted. So this is merely an
exposure to the complexity.

All the 64bit processors, have a mixed mode for
supporting 32bit. I can still install Win10 32 bit
on my gear here, if I want to. I even have the
DVD image to do it. I have around 100GB of Win10
images now (because I collect them from the
Insider program). They're getting to be a nuisance.

There is no announcement yet, of "pure" 64 bit processors.
If they appeared, they'd likely fall on their faces.

And when you ask your 32 bit question, I see a
lurking idea you're going to run a really old OS
on this. Buy yourself a newer OS, OK ?

Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit - OEM $140 sale
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16832416804

The license you get, works with both 32 bit and 64 bit DVDs.
You can download the "other" DVD if it isn't in the box.
I keep both 32 bit and 64 bit images here.

This is why you want Pro. If you stick 4x8GB memory
in your new system, the OS needs a big enough memory
license to use it all. You don't particularly
need that much RAM, and 2x8GB is "dimensionally"
suited to modern hardware and badly designed OSes.
Part of the reason for this, is 4KB entries in the
page tables, and a lot of TLB misses. Remember that
certain parts of CPU design, haven't changed in 18 years.
But the amount of RAM, just keeps zooming up and up.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...(v=vs.85).aspx

Version Limit on X86 Limit on X64

Windows 7 Home Premium 4 GB 16 GB
Windows 7 Professional 4 GB 192 GB ---

Windows 8 Enterprise 4 GB 512 GB
Windows 8 Professional 4 GB 512 GB
Windows 8 4 GB 128 GB

Paul
  #4  
Old February 6th 17, 12:12 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default motherboards

On 2/5/2017 2:01 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
I make this post in curiosity. My computer is getting a bit aged. But
still going Now a reasonable motherboard with a 32 bit processor, what
would a reasonable one go for? For those that keep up on this. I bought a
motherboard once and put it in a case. I fired it up and it was dead
immediately. I forgot to put spacers between the board and case. So it
fried.

What I got on ebay was a motherboard and a package of scews spacers and
"stuff" no instructions.

Bill


Just buy something inexpensive like these, easily found
in most cities, and don't look back. Problem solved.
http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/5936331878.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/sys/5982309528.html
  #5  
Old February 6th 17, 05:58 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Bill Cunningham[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default motherboards


"John McGaw" wrote in message
...

Do you _really_ want a 32-bit CPU? If so, why? I think that the only
semi-modern 32-bit mainstream processor would be something like an Intel
Atom; otherwise you'd be going back to one of the early Pentium chips.
Advice: forget the 32-bit and buy a packaged motherboard/memory/CPU
solution from someone who knows what they are doing. I'd suspect that a
motherboard with i3 and cooling with 8gB could be found for $300 although
I haven't done any detailed searching. Oh, and be careful about mounting
and connections...


Well I don't see where my 64 bit processor is better than a 32 bit one.
Maybe 32 bit s disappearing.

Bill


  #6  
Old February 6th 17, 05:58 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Bill Cunningham[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default motherboards


"." wrote in message news
On 2/5/2017 2:01 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
I make this post in curiosity. My computer is getting a bit aged. But
still going Now a reasonable motherboard with a 32 bit processor,
what
would a reasonable one go for? For those that keep up on this. I bought a
motherboard once and put it in a case. I fired it up and it was dead
immediately. I forgot to put spacers between the board and case. So it
fried.

What I got on ebay was a motherboard and a package of scews spacers
and
"stuff" no instructions.

Bill


Just buy something inexpensive like these, easily found
in most cities, and don't look back. Problem solved.
http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/5936331878.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/sys/5982309528.html


That looks more like it.



 




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