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Corrupt NTFS filesystem



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 25th 06, 07:35 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Citizen Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:45:03 -0400, kony wrote:

All you have to do is make a clean installation,


Easy enough

export the appropriate registry keys


How do you propose I do that? I have nearly 100 installed apps. Do you
expect me to fish thru the Registry looking for every possible
reference to them, including the classes, etc?

and copy over the installation folders and shortcuts for the start
menu.


Easy enough. You also want to copy the profiles.

Will it work 100% of the time? No, there will be a
few things that need more attention, but since nobody was
suggesting you just delete your entire existing
installation, it's not as though this information is
suddenly gone and can't be referred to, to get any rogue
apps working.


I can deal with a small number of apps that don't work. In fact there
were two such apps that did not survive the NTFS - FAT32 transition
or the FAT32 - NTFS transition back. I simply uninstalled and
reinstalled.

Something else you can do is compare the clean
installation's system and driver files to your old one- the
apps should not need special drivers in most cases, save for
a few dealing with specific hardware.


How do you propose I do that?

You make it sound so easy, albeit tedious. But I have serious
reservations about just how easy it is. But I am willing to listen to
any constructive comments. If I can pull off a clean reinstall by
merely doing the things you state above, then let's get started.


--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
  #22  
Old October 25th 06, 07:38 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Citizen Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:52:12 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Nope, the biggest limitation is actually the 4G file size limit.


That is why I just returned to the NTFS fs. However based on your
comment that the problem might go away if I converted the FAT32 fs I
made the other day to an NTFS fs, I went that route. I should know in
a couple days if the corruption problem has gone away.


--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
  #23  
Old October 25th 06, 08:49 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,559
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

Citizen Bob wrote
Rod Speed wrote


They are getting confused by something. It isnt currently clear by what.


If I change the drive letter, it takes effect immediately for one
of the device drivers (the one with the label) but not the other.


THERE ARE NO SEPARATE DEVICE DRIVERS.

I have to reboot to get it to take effect on the other one.


There is something going on with what Windows calls a "generic
device". I see it in the Install/Remove Hardware utility. Sometimes
when I add a partition in Disk Management, it attempts to assign the
next drive letter in the alphabetic sequence, but can't because "that
letter is already in use" or somesuch.


Thats mangled completely too. It should be able to work out what is free.

But there is no such device to be found. If I then remove the generic device
with the Add/Remove Hardware, it frees up the hidden letter and I can use it.


You've stuffed something up, presumably in the process of
using that abortion of a RAID, but it could just as easily have
been you use of whatever it was you used to clone the drive too.

Also, in the Registry there is key that shows Mounted Devices.
It has an entry for the hidden drive letter that can't be used.
If I clear out that key, it becomes available.


Presumably something else keeps putting it back.

Yes, but since you that showed up after the stupid raid
system was installed, its almost certainly been done by that.


When I built this machine and did an IPU to install Win2K, I ran it
very briefly without that RAID contraption. But I did not use the
defragger so I do not know if there were two device drivers per
partition. I then installed the RAID unit and kept it for about 6
months. The corrupt NTFS partition problem showed up immediately.


I contacted the Product Line Manager in Taiwan and she was
eager to work with me to find the source of the problem. But
after a short period she turned cold - I suspect she discovered
that there was something radically wrong with her product.


Or she decided that you were too bone headed to bother with.

Kony clearly has.

I contacted my vendor and he contacted the US importer and they
decided that the product was not functioning properly, so I was given
a full cash refund. That's when I began making clones for backup.


He is an independent residential mortgage broker and
every time he puts his phone to his ear, he makes money.


Just get him a cordless phone so he can
still do that even when chained to the PC.


He has a cordless phone, and it is constantly in use.


A retrospective abortion may well be the only solution.


  #24  
Old October 25th 06, 12:48 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Citizen Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:49:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

THERE ARE NO SEPARATE DEVICE DRIVERS.


Here's the facts as I see them.

1) If I open a defragger (NT Defrag or Perfect Disk), I see two
entries per partition. Both have a drive letter and one has the volume
label, whereas the other is blank after the drive letter.

2) This does not show up in Disk Management. However there are hidden
devices sometimes because when I format a partition, it won't let me
assign the drive letters for the hidden devices.

3) In DiskPerfect I can expose the GUID for the device drivers, and
they are different for the two entries per partition.

4) Every time I change the disk signature (using Win98SE fdisk /mbr) I
get a message that I have to reboot because Windows has detected a new
device.

You've stuffed something up, presumably in the process of
using that abortion of a RAID, but it could just as easily have
been you use of whatever it was you used to clone the drive too.


The problem was present before I used clones. That problem (corrupt
NTFS partitions) was the reason I got rid of the RAID contraption.

Also, in the Registry there is key that shows Mounted Devices.
It has an entry for the hidden drive letter that can't be used.
If I clear out that key, it becomes available.


Presumably something else keeps putting it back.


If I could find what it is, I might be able to fix this problem.

One poster suggested that I use RegMon (a Registry monitor that
displays everything that goes on in the Registry) to track down the
problem. The trouble with that is there would be literally thousands
of records to sort thru.

I contacted the Product Line Manager in Taiwan and she was
eager to work with me to find the source of the problem. But
after a short period she turned cold - I suspect she discovered
that there was something radically wrong with her product.


Or she decided that you were too bone headed to bother with.


Why would you say that? If you knew me, you would know I am the
complete opposite. Are you sure you are not projecting.

Kony clearly has.


Kony doesn't appreciate what I am up against. Anyway, there may be a
misunderstanding about what he means by a "fresh install". I took it
to mean that I have to reinstall all my applications, which is clearly
a nightmare. Now he tells me in his last post that there is a way to
do a fresh install without having to reinstall everything - and it is
not an IPU.

A retrospective abortion may well be the only solution.


That is not a nice thing to say about my son.


--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
  #25  
Old October 25th 06, 05:25 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,416
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:35:34 GMT, (Citizen Bob)
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:45:03 -0400, kony wrote:

All you have to do is make a clean installation,


Easy enough

export the appropriate registry keys


How do you propose I do that? I have nearly 100 installed apps. Do you
expect me to fish thru the Registry looking for every possible
reference to them, including the classes, etc?


How much time have you spent so far on this drive
corruption? Hours, maybe longer considering all the time to
restore files and make more frequent backups least lose
data.

Exporting a few registry keys is mere minutes work. So what
if you have to export the classes keys and merge those too?
Remember, you are making a SECOND OS installation, it's not
like you lose anything if you accidentally cause same
problem on the new installation, and if done incrementally
could even help to narrow down what's causing it.




and copy over the installation folders and shortcuts for the start
menu.


Easy enough. You also want to copy the profiles.


Ok, and?



Something else you can do is compare the clean
installation's system and driver files to your old one- the
apps should not need special drivers in most cases, save for
a few dealing with specific hardware.


How do you propose I do that?


They're files. You can take two folders and compare what's
inside, particularly in smaller folders like
C:\WINNT\system32\drivers




You make it sound so easy, albeit tedious.


You won't know till you try it, will you?

But I have serious
reservations about just how easy it is.


How can you when you only argue against it?

But I am willing to listen to
any constructive comments.


If I can pull off a clean reinstall by
merely doing the things you state above, then let's get started.


Ok, so have you started? My suggestion is the installation
on another partition or drive, done clean. Get that 100%
working, including drivers, then make a backup of it as you
will do at certain intervals so if something goes awry you
can just revert back without losing the entire installation.

I'm not claiming the whole process will be done in an hour
or two, but considering how long your present installation
has been used, a new one might last you till the end of
time...

  #26  
Old October 25th 06, 06:24 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Citizen Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:25:23 -0400, kony wrote:

Exporting a few registry keys is mere minutes work.


What are those "few registry keys"?

So what if you have to export the classes keys and merge those too?


Although I have used Regedit, I have no idea how to begin doing what
you are proposing.

You make it sound so easy, albeit tedious.


You won't know till you try it, will you?


If you give me the instructions I am willing to give it a try.

But I have serious
reservations about just how easy it is.


How can you when you only argue against it?


I told you that I misunderstood what you were proposing all along. I
thought when you used the term "clean install" that I would have to
install all my applications again. That's what I was arguing against.

If you give me the instructions (or point me to a website that has
them) for doing the Registry export, I am willing to have a go at it,
because I won't have to actually reinstall anything.

If I can pull off a clean reinstall by
merely doing the things you state above, then let's get started.


Ok, so have you started? My suggestion is the installation
on another partition or drive, done clean. Get that 100%
working, including drivers, then make a backup of it as you
will do at certain intervals so if something goes awry you
can just revert back without losing the entire installation.


I assume by that you mean create a new active partition of a new
installation of Win2K. That I can do and I can dedicate a complete
disk drive to it. Should I put SP4 on too?

I will do that and report back for the next step. I am trusting you
that the Registry exports will be straightforward, and not require me
to seek out the references to 100 different apps many of which have
different names in the Registry for the same app.



--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
  #27  
Old October 25th 06, 08:17 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,559
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

Citizen Bob wrote
Rod Speed wrote


THERE ARE NO SEPARATE DEVICE DRIVERS.


Here's the facts as I see them.


1) If I open a defragger (NT Defrag or Perfect Disk), I see two
entries per partition. Both have a drive letter and one has the
volume label, whereas the other is blank after the drive letter.


Says nothing useful about whether there are
separate device drivers for those two entrys.

2) This does not show up in Disk Management. However there
are hidden devices sometimes because when I format a partition,
it won't let me assign the drive letters for the hidden devices.


Says nothing useful about whether there are
separate device drivers for those two entrys.

3) In DiskPerfect I can expose the GUID for the device drivers,


Those arent separate device DRIVERS either, they are just separated DEVICES.

and they are different for the two entries per partition.


Says nothing useful about whether there are
separate device drivers for those two entrys.

4) Every time I change the disk signature (using Win98SE fdisk /mbr) I get
a message that I have to reboot because Windows has detected a new device.


Says nothing useful about whether there are
separate device drivers for those two entrys.

You've stuffed something up, presumably in the process of
using that abortion of a RAID, but it could just as easily have
been you use of whatever it was you used to clone the drive too.


The problem was present before I used clones.


I didnt meant the clones for backup, I meant the cloning you did in
the process of setting that system up with that abortion of a RAID.
Using the hard drive manufacturer's ute from memory.

That problem (corrupt NTFS partitions) was
the reason I got rid of the RAID contraption.


The corruption may well be an entirely separate issue to the
extra entry for each partition since changing to FAT32 fixed
the corruption but not the extra entry for each partition.

Also, in the Registry there is key that shows Mounted Devices.
It has an entry for the hidden drive letter that can't be used.
If I clear out that key, it becomes available.


Presumably something else keeps putting it back.


If I could find what it is, I might be able to fix this problem.


One poster suggested that I use RegMon (a Registry monitor that
displays everything that goes on in the Registry) to track down the
problem. The trouble with that is there would be literally thousands
of records to sort thru.


Thats what the search function is for.

I contacted the Product Line Manager in Taiwan and she was
eager to work with me to find the source of the problem. But
after a short period she turned cold - I suspect she discovered
that there was something radically wrong with her product.


Or she decided that you were too bone headed to bother with.


Why would you say that?


Because of the evidence I have seen of your bone headedness.

If you knew me, you would know I am the complete opposite.


Pity about the evidence of your boneheadedness in your posts.

An absolutely classic example of that is that obsessive claim
that you have separate device drivers for those extra entrys
for each partition when there are no such separate device drivers.

Are you sure you are not projecting.


Completely sure.

Kony clearly has.


Kony doesn't appreciate what I am up against.


Yes he does.

Anyway, there may be a misunderstanding about what he
means by a "fresh install". I took it to mean that I have to
reinstall all my applications, which is clearly a nightmare.


And we both kept rubbing your nose in the fact that that isnt necessary.

Now he tells me in his last post that there is a way to do a fresh
install without having to reinstall everything - and it is not an IPU.


And I told you that well before that, using the files and settings transfer wizard.

A retrospective abortion may well be the only solution.


That is not a nice thing to say about my son.


That was a joke, Joyce.


  #28  
Old October 25th 06, 08:25 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,559
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

I'd cut to the chase and move to XP.

Install that on one of your spare drives, apply SP2 and the online updates.
Install all those apps, dont worry about the settings/config stuff for those.

Use the files and settings transfer wizard in XP to get the settings
and config stuff and files from the 2K install you are currently using.

See how you like that XP install, particularly that the wizard has got
all the settings etc across fine. If they are mostly fine and it just hasnt
got the settings for a few apps across, do those manually, if necessary
repeatedly rebooting between 2K and XP to check the original settings etc.

Once its working fine, break out the champagne and get on with your 'life'


Citizen Bob wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:25:23 -0400, kony wrote:

Exporting a few registry keys is mere minutes work.


What are those "few registry keys"?

So what if you have to export the classes keys and merge those too?


Although I have used Regedit, I have no idea how to begin doing what
you are proposing.

You make it sound so easy, albeit tedious.


You won't know till you try it, will you?


If you give me the instructions I am willing to give it a try.

But I have serious
reservations about just how easy it is.


How can you when you only argue against it?


I told you that I misunderstood what you were proposing all along. I
thought when you used the term "clean install" that I would have to
install all my applications again. That's what I was arguing against.

If you give me the instructions (or point me to a website that has
them) for doing the Registry export, I am willing to have a go at it,
because I won't have to actually reinstall anything.

If I can pull off a clean reinstall by
merely doing the things you state above, then let's get started.


Ok, so have you started? My suggestion is the installation
on another partition or drive, done clean. Get that 100%
working, including drivers, then make a backup of it as you
will do at certain intervals so if something goes awry you
can just revert back without losing the entire installation.


I assume by that you mean create a new active partition of a new
installation of Win2K. That I can do and I can dedicate a complete
disk drive to it. Should I put SP4 on too?

I will do that and report back for the next step. I am trusting you
that the Registry exports will be straightforward, and not require me
to seek out the references to 100 different apps many of which have
different names in the Registry for the same app.



  #29  
Old October 26th 06, 12:57 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,416
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:24:45 GMT, (Citizen Bob)
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:25:23 -0400, kony wrote:

Exporting a few registry keys is mere minutes work.


What are those "few registry keys"?



I can't answer that, because I don't have your system nor
know all the apps. A few of them would tend to be
HKLM-Software, HKCU-Software, and you mentioned classes so
HKCR.

You might take it the other way 'round though, get the clean
Win2k SP4 installation working and before trying to change
it, first compare it... for example, what's sitting in your
system32/drivers folder, if all the hardware works on the
new installation, take a hard look at what's *extra* on your
old installation.




So what if you have to export the classes keys and merge those too?


Although I have used Regedit, I have no idea how to begin doing what
you are proposing.



Export is a menu item, so for example with the
HKLM-Software, you'd highlight that key, export it, and then
merge it on the fresh installation. Again I would wait on
that, first verifying that the new installation works as it
should, and comparing it.



You make it sound so easy, albeit tedious.


You won't know till you try it, will you?


If you give me the instructions I am willing to give it a try.


The key to the process is keeping your existing installation
intact. That allows copying over the installation folder,
and shortcuts, and the "Application Data" folders for each
user and for the "All users" categories (in the \Documents
and Settings\ folder)

This is essentially a volume attack at copying over the
majority of the applicable files and settings. Some apps
may put something in the system folder or elsewhere,
perhaps a license validation key or whatever, so if/when an
app won't work you'd have to either hunt down the file or
registry entry, or enter it the traditional way if it
prompts for that.

I'm not claiming you'll magically have everything working
without a bit of hunting around, but rather a lot of stuff
will work and you can then spend less time on fewer things
you either hunt down, or if you can't, then install again.




I told you that I misunderstood what you were proposing all along. I
thought when you used the term "clean install" that I would have to
install all my applications again. That's what I was arguing against.


Actually by clean install I meant not installing apps at
all, I meant not trying to use this as your replacement
everyday OS installation, yet, rather to verify the hardware
is otherwise working properly with a clean Win2kSP4 install-
because if it can't do that, there's no point in wondering
if what you have can be fixed. Further having the clean
install, it can be compared to what you have, while it might
be harder to move everything, you may install see things
that stand out, which aren't related to the apps you need
but are just clutter left over from years of use. I can't
really imagine what the system folders must look like after
so much time, upgrading, and so many apps, but there's bound
to be tons of stuff that needs cleared out and if nothing
else you could make some temporary folders and just move the
stuff, they try to run the system and see if anything
chokes.



If you give me the instructions (or point me to a website that has
them) for doing the Registry export, I am willing to have a go at it,
because I won't have to actually reinstall anything.


I never claimed you wont have to reinstall "anything", if
you have 100 apps the odds are fair you would have
something or other that needs more than just what I'd
mentioned, but it's possible you wouldn't.

The main thing is, you start doing it and see what's left,
what won't run. There are also tools that can help you see
when an app is looking for a file or a registry entry it
can't find, and then failing to run. Sysinternals.com has a
few, the Filemon and Regmon for example are both freeware.


If I can pull off a clean reinstall by
merely doing the things you state above, then let's get started.


Ok, so have you started? My suggestion is the installation
on another partition or drive, done clean. Get that 100%
working, including drivers, then make a backup of it as you
will do at certain intervals so if something goes awry you
can just revert back without losing the entire installation.


I assume by that you mean create a new active partition of a new
installation of Win2K. That I can do and I can dedicate a complete
disk drive to it. Should I put SP4 on too?


Yes, the operating system should be 100% done, including
SP4, all modern patches, before even thinking about adding
any apps or registry entries or anything else, then back it
up first, then compare to your present installation.

This is a long roundabout way of doing it though, I'd be
looking at system32/drivers/ files and odd out-of-place
services first, and the items you can UNhide in Device
Manager. That might be useful, comparing the entire
unhidden list in Device Manager between your old
installation and the new one. This too I'd do before trying
to move any applications or registry entries.



I will do that and report back for the next step. I am trusting you
that the Registry exports will be straightforward, and not require me
to seek out the references to 100 different apps many of which have
different names in the Registry for the same app.


I gave examples above of copying the entire subkey. That
will be a little extra clutter in your registry, but if you
wanted to you could always expand these subkeys and manually
delete any of the next level that you recognize as being no
longer on the system. Likewise with the apps, you'll have
to copy them all over and while it would be easy to just say
"they're all in your program files folder", they might not
be, you'd be getting the bulk of them in one shot then
dealing with the few odd things remaining.

The main thing to remember is you're not changing your
existing installation, and by making incremental backups of
the new installation at worst what you'll have is a ready to
use OS installation when you decide to retire that system to
a secondary use (or sell it) and move all your stuff to a
new computer. So unless you plan on throwing it away this
new OS installation is something that had to be done anyway.
  #30  
Old October 26th 06, 01:57 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
CBFalconer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 919
Default Corrupt NTFS filesystem

kony wrote:

.... snip ...

I gave examples above of copying the entire subkey. That
will be a little extra clutter in your registry, but if you
wanted to you could always expand these subkeys and manually
delete any of the next level that you recognize as being no
longer on the system. Likewise with the apps, you'll have
to copy them all over and while it would be easy to just say
"they're all in your program files folder", they might not
be, you'd be getting the bulk of them in one shot then
dealing with the few odd things remaining.

The main thing to remember is you're not changing your
existing installation, and by making incremental backups of
the new installation at worst what you'll have is a ready to
use OS installation when you decide to retire that system to
a secondary use (or sell it) and move all your stuff to a
new computer. So unless you plan on throwing it away this
new OS installation is something that had to be done anyway.


When he gets his pristine system up, the first thing he should
install is INCTRL5 from pcmag.com. This used to be free, but I
believe the rats (bean counters) got at that. At any rate that can
supervise any new installations and record the precise files
installed, erased, register entries made or altered, etc. This
will allow total extermination of a bad utility, leaving no tracks.

At the same time it is worth while making periodic backups of the
entire registry. You can then bodily return to any previous
state. If the backups are made by exporting, the resultant files
are text, and can be quickly searched in an editor. Searching in
regedit is abysmally slow. Then the pristine system backup can be
instantaneously updated to any of the backedup records by importing
that backup.

My experience is with W98, since I will not allow any of the later
versions on my systems, due primarily to that execresence of a
EULA.
--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
http://cbfalconer.home.att.net


 




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