Installing Win 10 on old iron

On Sun, 21 May 2017 15:51:39 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Jerry Phillips wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a LGA775 / Core2 Quad Q6600 w/8GB
ram platform?

Is there a list of Windows 10 supported (legacy) CPUs
anyplace on the web?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wind...specifications

The GWX (Get Windows 10) "update" that everyone under Windows 7/8
despised in trying to push them to upgrade (and even tools were made to
block it) would detect if your hardware was Windows 10 compatible. Be
damn sure to save an image backup before using GWX. Don't rely on it
uninstalling itself. One of its nasty behaviors is to download Windows
10 in preparation for installation. That's not likely erased upon an
uninstall of GWX.

I have a Compaq Presario which came with Windows 7 installed.
The above mentioned update failed as did a more recent attempt.
A fresh install worked and was automatically validated with a
digital licence.
It does have a Windows 7 licence in firmware.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/will-yo...r-to-find-out/
https://www.groovypost.com/howto/che...ns-windows-10/

So what does your mobo's firmware support? Is is old MBR (Master Boot
Record) or the new UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface)? You
cannot install Win 10 on UEFI firmware with secured boot enabled and CSM
disabled
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unifie..._Interface#CSM)
if the disk is MBR. The disk has to be GPT which is supported by UEFI,
not MBR. Without CSM, you cannot use UEFI to boot into emulated MBR
mode. With UEFI firmware, you'll either want to disable secured boot
and enable CSM or you'll want to convert your MBR drive to a GPT one.
Normally conversion from MBR to GPT incurs data loss because the old MBR
partitions have to be deleted before creating new GPT partitions. I've
heard some 3rd party tools can do the conversion without data loss
(e.g., Easeus Partition Master Free) but you should still do a file
backup. UEFI secure boot was a protection mechanism to ensure only
signed drivers or operating systems got loaded, not some rogueware or
malware on boot; however, there is firmware in UEFI that has been shown
vulnerable.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/29480...einstalls.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/31872...ansomware.html
http://media.kaspersky.com/en/busine...ts_to_UEFI.pdf

For Windows 10, the CPU must support PAE, NX, and SSE2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physic...ress_Extension
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_bit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE2
While hyperthreading support within the CPU is desirable, it is not
required (Microsoft removed that requirement during preview testing).
You can run tools, like Piriform's Speccy, to determine if your CPU has
the required functions. Microsoft has their own CPU ID tool at
http://tinyurl.com/m3q7ayq. I have the *Intel Core 2 Quad Q9440*, same
as yours but with a higher clock (fastest the mobo will support, and I
do not overclock) and all the above functions are listed as supported
except hyperthreading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading

Speccy also says my CPU supports hardware-assisted virtualization (VT
mode) but it is disabled. For verification, I went to:

http://ark.intel.com/products/family...essor#@Desktop

and clicked on the link for the specs on my CPU. Yep, it has VT mode
available. Alas, my ancient MBR BIOS won't let me use it (but I'm not
sure that I would want to).

Some info on VT mode in the Intel CPUs:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/every...on-technology/

The BIOS/mobo/CPU setup that I have won't let me enable VT mode in the
CPU. While this was considered a gamer's box back in its heyday, it is
a pre-built Acer with few user-configurable settings in the BIOS (and I
have the latest BIOS version that they offer). There is no setting to
enable VT mode. Apparently the mobo was older than the CPU. It was a
non-working box that I salvaged for free and repaired. Although I
cannot use VT mode in the hardware, I thought VMWare Player and
Virtualbox could assign or set affinity to a physical core in the CPU to
a virtual machine (not the number of virtualized processors in the
virtual machine); that is, a virtual CPU (vCPU) maps to a physical core
(not to a CPU which can be multiple cores). I haven't yet looked at the
open source Xen project for VMs but that looks to be a hypervisor that
is the host OS, like Microsoft's Hyper-V, instead of a VMM (Virtual
Machine Monitor), like VMware Player and Virtualbox, that runs under a
host OS (e.g., Windows, Linux). VT mode is only usable if you have
programs that can actually use it; else, you don't lose anything with it
available but disabled. Also, CPUs with I/O MMU Virtualization allows
DMA (Direct Memory Access). An infected VM could attack other VMs,
memory in the host OS, and run code on the physical CPU. PCI
passthrough makes VMs less secure. In the past, some malware would
remain quiescent when they detected they were running inside a VM. By
looking benign, users might install the infected software in their host
OS. Now the malware can attack from inside a VM instead of waiting to
get out of the VM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_vi..._Intel_VT-d.29

Hardware-assisted virtualization is supposed to speed up the performance
of VMs (because of emulation the programs run slower on virtualized
hardware inside a VM) but at the expense of a [potentially] less secure
VM. VT mode doesn't always speed up performance; e.g., Virtualbox says
[or used to say] that enabling VT mode would slow performance in their
VMs.

Oh, and lastly but more pertinent to your inquiry, I grabbed a copy of
Windows 10 (did the upgrade) before the giveaway expired. That was so I
could get the license recorded in a Microsoft account to let me later
use it if I wanted to. I first saved a backup image of Windows 7. Then
I did a fresh install of Windows 7 (no updates) so the Windows 10
upgrade would be as close to a fresh install as possible. I saved a
backup image of the new Windows 10 install then restored back to the
image for my Windows 7 setup. I got no errors during the Windows 10
upgrade telling me there were problems with my hardware.

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On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:29:47 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 21 May 2017 14:45:19 +0000, Jerry Phillips
wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a LGA775 / Core2 Quad Q6600 w/8GB
ram platform?

Windows 10 runs nicely on a 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM.



How nicely Windows 10, or any other version, runs depends on what
applications you run on it. Many people would find that it didn't run
as nicely on their 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM as
it does on yours.

Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2017 13:59:06 -0500, philo wrote:

On 05/21/2017 11:12 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
Mark Lloyd wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a [...] Q6600
Seems to have NX, SSE2 and PAE, so it should pass the processor
requirements


I've recently upgraded quite a few older machines to Win10 with no problems.


Some of the machines were as old as 2005 or so

So my Acer One netbook which has an Atom CPU is unlikely to
run Windows 10?


There are multiple models of that thing.

It could have an N450 Processor. The N450 is 1C 2T (Hyperthreaded single core).

http://ark.intel.com/products/42503/...Cache-1_66-GHz

Someone here installed Win10.

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/...cer-aspire-one

Intel doesn't give the level of detail necessary for running
Win8.1 or Win10. You can use "CoreInfo" to check your CPU. Note
that the text listing shown here, is not up to date, with
respect to what the tool actually shows.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...rnals/cc835722

This is my processor, as an example. I've deleted all the
unimportant options, and just shown some Windows 8.1/10 ones.

*******

Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz
x86 Family 6 Model 23 Stepping 10, GenuineIntel
Microcode signatu 00000A07

NX * Supports no-execute page protection
PAE * Supports 32-bit physical addresses
SSE2 * Supports Streaming SIMD Extensions 2
CX16 * Supports CMPXCHG16B instruction
LAHF-SAHF * Supports LAHF/SAHF instructions in 64-bit mode
PREFETCHW * Supports PREFETCHW instruction

Logical to Physical Processor Map:
*- Physical Processor 0
-* Physical Processor 1

*******

Using the keywords, you can find out more about what those
hardware features are for.

https://superuser.com/questions/9317...efetchw-and-la

Paul

Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2017 15:51:39 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Jerry Phillips wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a LGA775 / Core2 Quad Q6600 w/8GB
ram platform?

Is there a list of Windows 10 supported (legacy) CPUs
anyplace on the web?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wind...specifications

The GWX (Get Windows 10) "update" that everyone under Windows 7/8
despised in trying to push them to upgrade (and even tools were made to
block it) would detect if your hardware was Windows 10 compatible. Be
damn sure to save an image backup before using GWX. Don't rely on it
uninstalling itself. One of its nasty behaviors is to download Windows
10 in preparation for installation. That's not likely erased upon an
uninstall of GWX.

I have a Compaq Presario which came with Windows 7 installed.
The above mentioned update failed as did a more recent attempt.
A fresh install worked and was automatically validated with a
digital licence.

It does have a Windows 7 licence in firmware. -----

Actually, it doesn't.

Win7 or earlier: BIOS uses SLIC, which contains no license key.

Don't lose your COA sticker, which is a real license key.

The license key in the OEM OS (as shown by MagicalJellyBean)
is generic. Whereas the COA is a "real" key, unique to
your machine. The generic key is no good to anybody. Whereas
the COA key can be used during a reinstall, with downloaded
media (Heidoc method).

Win8 or later: BIOS uses MSDN, which contains an actual license key.
If MSDN is used, there is no COA sticker on the outside.

The difference between the two method, is SLIC can authorize multiple
royalty OEM OS versions. A Dell Win7 SLIC can cause Dell WinXP, Dell Vista,
or Dell Win7 to work (drivers willing).

The MSDN on the other hand, only works with one OS. If the MSDN is for
Win8, it would not work with Win7. And the MSDN can work with a retail
installer disc (as long as the OS version matches). So in some ways,
the MSDN is less useful. But, there is no COA sticker to get scraped
off the outside of the PC, and for that, we're thankful. The MSDN is
unique on each MSDN machine, so you don't copy that thing into USENET
posts.

If your Presario came with Win7, there should be a Win7 COA sticker
somewhere. And a SLIC table (part of ACPI tables) in the BIOS.

Linux can dump the tables, all of them, if you're interested
in the raw bytes of "what makes a table". For example, you
should be able to see the license key, when dumping the MSDN table.
Using that Linux capability, you can either prove or disprove the
existence of SLIC or MSDN. In case you're confused about what
OS actually shipped with the machine, and want to understand how
licensing is managed on the particular machine.

Paul

On Tue, 23 May 2017 08:33:14 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:29:47 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 21 May 2017 14:45:19 +0000, Jerry Phillips
wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a LGA775 / Core2 Quad Q6600 w/8GB
ram platform?

Windows 10 runs nicely on a 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM.



How nicely Windows 10, or any other version, runs depends on what
applications you run on it. Many people would find that it didn't run
as nicely on their 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM as
it does on yours.

I realsie that. I don't run lots of programs on it or anything
that requires lots of RAM.

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On Tue, 23 May 2017 12:40:44 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2017 15:51:39 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Jerry Phillips wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a LGA775 / Core2 Quad Q6600 w/8GB
ram platform?

Is there a list of Windows 10 supported (legacy) CPUs
anyplace on the web?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wind...specifications

The GWX (Get Windows 10) "update" that everyone under Windows 7/8
despised in trying to push them to upgrade (and even tools were made to
block it) would detect if your hardware was Windows 10 compatible. Be
damn sure to save an image backup before using GWX. Don't rely on it
uninstalling itself. One of its nasty behaviors is to download Windows
10 in preparation for installation. That's not likely erased upon an
uninstall of GWX.

I have a Compaq Presario which came with Windows 7 installed.
The above mentioned update failed as did a more recent attempt.
A fresh install worked and was automatically validated with a
digital licence.

It does have a Windows 7 licence in firmware. -----

Actually, it doesn't.

ShowKeyPlus says
Windows 7 OEM marker present in firmware.

What does that indicate?


Win7 or earlier: BIOS uses SLIC, which contains no license key.

Don't lose your COA sticker, which is a real license key.

The license key in the OEM OS (as shown by MagicalJellyBean)
is generic. Whereas the COA is a "real" key, unique to
your machine. The generic key is no good to anybody. Whereas
the COA key can be used during a reinstall, with downloaded
media (Heidoc method).

Win8 or later: BIOS uses MSDN, which contains an actual license key.
If MSDN is used, there is no COA sticker on the outside.

The difference between the two method, is SLIC can authorize multiple
royalty OEM OS versions. A Dell Win7 SLIC can cause Dell WinXP, Dell Vista,
or Dell Win7 to work (drivers willing).

The MSDN on the other hand, only works with one OS. If the MSDN is for
Win8, it would not work with Win7. And the MSDN can work with a retail
installer disc (as long as the OS version matches). So in some ways,
the MSDN is less useful. But, there is no COA sticker to get scraped
off the outside of the PC, and for that, we're thankful. The MSDN is
unique on each MSDN machine, so you don't copy that thing into USENET
posts.

If your Presario came with Win7, there should be a Win7 COA sticker
somewhere. And a SLIC table (part of ACPI tables) in the BIOS.

Linux can dump the tables, all of them, if you're interested
in the raw bytes of "what makes a table". For example, you
should be able to see the license key, when dumping the MSDN table.
Using that Linux capability, you can either prove or disprove the
existence of SLIC or MSDN. In case you're confused about what
OS actually shipped with the machine, and want to understand how
licensing is managed on the particular machine.

Paul

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Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-05-24 08:20, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2017 12:40:44 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2017 15:51:39 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Jerry Phillips wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a LGA775 / Core2 Quad Q6600 w/8GB
ram platform?

Is there a list of Windows 10 supported (legacy) CPUs
anyplace on the web?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wind...specifications

The GWX (Get Windows 10) "update" that everyone under Windows 7/8
despised in trying to push them to upgrade (and even tools were
made to
block it) would detect if your hardware was Windows 10 compatible. Be
damn sure to save an image backup before using GWX. Don't rely on it
uninstalling itself. One of its nasty behaviors is to download
Windows
10 in preparation for installation. That's not likely erased upon an
uninstall of GWX.
I have a Compaq Presario which came with Windows 7 installed.
The above mentioned update failed as did a more recent attempt.
A fresh install worked and was automatically validated with a
digital licence.

It does have a Windows 7 licence in firmware. -----
Actually, it doesn't.
ShowKeyPlus says
Windows 7 OEM marker present in firmware.

What does that indicate?

It means "This machine is running on an OEM licence."

No actual key, though, right?

It's probably saying it found a SLIC table. A SLIC table
doesn't contain a key. A SLIC is like a fancy electronic
signature.

But SLIC tables exist even on retail motherboards (where it is
not required). According to what I read on it "the SLIC on the
retail motherboard has 10KB of noise". Exactly what purpose that
serves is unclear. There is an underground movement to hack SLIC
and replace it (so that Dell OS will work), and the people doing
this are *very* quiet about it. No names etc. Not trackable.
They're a lot more careful than your average Torrent monkey.

Normally SLIC says "I'm a Dell" and authorizes a SLIC-activated
Dell OS if present on the machine. It won't help you with a non-Dell
OS. If you take the Win7 drive from an Acer laptop and put it
in a Dell laptop, the SLIC won't match.

If a royalty OEM OS is present ("Dell Win7"), the key finder will
report the *generic* Dell key. Which is of no usage during re-install
attempts. Neither can that key be used on the Win7 DVD download
page, to download a retail disc to be used for re-installation.
(Use the Heidoc URL generator instead, until Techbench OS disc downloads
have been disabled.)

Only the COA key has value. At least you can reinstall with
that. If you've scratched off the COA sticker (happens quite
easily), then you're screwed. Which is why, towards the end of the
COA era, on laptops, they started putting the COA sticker in
the battery bay. To cut down on friction damage. The COA stickers
are obviously made to fail on purpose that way (revenue stream).

On "Officially" refurbed computers from Joy Systems (sold at Staples
or Walmart), the OS has been replaced with a "Microsoft refurbisher OS"
which is similar to a Dell OS. A refurbisher is not allowed to
re-ship a Dell OS in the machine, so the OS image has to be replaced
before the unit ships. At the current time, only Win10 can legally
be shipped on refurb machines. Whereas older OEM computers still
have legal ways to continue using Win7. I think the refurb may have
a COA too. If not, "do frequent backups" :-(

Paul

Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2017 08:33:14 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:29:47 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 21 May 2017 14:45:19 +0000, Jerry Phillips
wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a LGA775 / Core2 Quad Q6600 w/8GB
ram platform?
Windows 10 runs nicely on a 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM.


How nicely Windows 10, or any other version, runs depends on what
applications you run on it. Many people would find that it didn't run
as nicely on their 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM as
it does on yours.

I realsie that. I don't run lots of programs on it or anything
that requires lots of RAM.


On my single core laptop, just the installation of the (persistent)
Logitech webcam package, and the Canon Inkjet printer package,
is enough to noticeably slow down the computer. That's how little it
takes to make an experience, miserable. The Logitech software runs
all the time, even when the webcam isn't plugged in (you can even see
it making log entries of a sort).

On under-powered computers, you have to select your software carefully.
Only thoughtfully-designed software need apply. And you know how
little of that there is in the world (browser bloat etc).

Paul

On Wed, 24 May 2017 21:57:47 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Tue, 23 May 2017 08:33:14 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:29:47 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 21 May 2017 14:45:19 +0000, Jerry Phillips
wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a LGA775 / Core2 Quad Q6600 w/8GB
ram platform?

Windows 10 runs nicely on a 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM.



How nicely Windows 10, or any other version, runs depends on what
applications you run on it. Many people would find that it didn't run
as nicely on their 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM as
it does on yours.

I realsie that. I don't run lots of programs on it or anything
that requires lots of RAM.



OK, but your statement "Windows 10 runs nicely on a 1.6 Ghz duel core
Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM" makes it sound like you think that
applies to everyone, not just you.

On Wed, 24 May 2017 11:14:03 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2017 08:33:14 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:29:47 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 21 May 2017 14:45:19 +0000, Jerry Phillips
wrote:

Will Windows 10 install on a LGA775 / Core2 Quad Q6600 w/8GB
ram platform?
Windows 10 runs nicely on a 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM.


How nicely Windows 10, or any other version, runs depends on what
applications you run on it. Many people would find that it didn't run
as nicely on their 1.6 Ghz duel core Pentium with only 1.0 GB RAM as
it does on yours.

I realise that. I don't run lots of programs on it or anything
that requires lots of RAM.


On my single core laptop, just the installation of the (persistent)
Logitech webcam package, and the Canon Inkjet printer package,
is enough to noticeably slow down the computer. That's how little it
takes to make an experience, miserable. The Logitech software runs
all the time, even when the webcam isn't plugged in (you can even see
it making log entries of a sort).

Can you delete the startup entry for the webcam?

On under-powered computers, you have to select your software carefully.
Only thoughtfully-designed software need apply. And you know how
little of that there is in the world (browser bloat etc).

Firefox is bloatware and they update it every day.

Paul

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