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Laptop charger?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 22nd 17, 07:41 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Yousuf Khan[_2_]
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Posts: 1,296
Default Laptop charger?

I realize this is not really a homebuilt PC question, but it is a PC
hardware question. I got a laptop that doesn't seem to charge its
battery while it's running. You need to completely shutdown the machine,
and leave it plugged in, and it'll recharge only then. If you are
running the machine with the cord plugged in, and if the charge is
anything below 100% charged, it will say that it's charging, but it
actually keeps losing its charge (for example, you might see it going
down from 75% to 74%, etc.). It will not charge while the machine is
running. Is this a problem with the power brick, or is it something
within the laptop circuitry itself, do you think?

Yousuf Khan
  #2  
Old November 22nd 17, 07:52 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Laptop charger?

Yousuf Khan wrote:
I realize this is not really a homebuilt PC question, but it is a PC
hardware question. I got a laptop that doesn't seem to charge its
battery while it's running. You need to completely shutdown the machine,
and leave it plugged in, and it'll recharge only then. If you are
running the machine with the cord plugged in, and if the charge is
anything below 100% charged, it will say that it's charging, but it
actually keeps losing its charge (for example, you might see it going
down from 75% to 74%, etc.). It will not charge while the machine is
running. Is this a problem with the power brick, or is it something
within the laptop circuitry itself, do you think?

Yousuf Khan


A couple questions:

1) Are you using an "Ebay adapter" instead of the
original adapter ? Did the original adapter have three
contacts (maybe a TRS barrel), while the current adapter
has only two contacts ? If so, the laptop cannot
read the properties of the adapter. This happens on laptops
that come in two models, and one of the models uses a
"high power" adapter. The models make sure the adapter is
correct for the job, by checking the ID.

2) Is the battery a replacement battery, perhaps
lacking the same fuel gauge as the original ?
But that's a stretch.

I'd pick (1) before I'd pick (2).

And it could easily be a defect in the
charging circuit. I don't have a collection of such
circuits, so I cannot begin to give a breakdown on
what modes they've got and how they're controlled.
I presume there's a management IC for this purpose
(figuring out when to charge, checking charger
voltage or current flow).

Paul
  #3  
Old November 22nd 17, 11:36 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Yousuf Khan[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,296
Default Laptop charger?

On 22/11/2017 12:52 PM, Paul wrote:
A couple questions:

1) Are you using an "Ebay adapter" instead of the
original adapter ? Did the original adapter have three
contacts (maybe a TRS barrel), while the current adapter
has only two contacts ? If so, the laptop cannot
read the properties of the adapter. This happens on laptops
that come in two models, and one of the models uses a
"high power" adapter. The models make sure the adapter is
correct for the job, by checking the ID.


No, it's actually still using its original Toshiba adapter. That's
partly the reason I'm asking about whether the power brick might be the
cause, because it is slightly old by now?

The brick is a 3-prong brick, rather than a 2-prong.

2) Is the battery a replacement battery, perhaps
lacking the same fuel gauge as the original ?
But that's a stretch.


Yes, it is actually a replacement battery, but this same problem was
occurring using the original battery too. I didn't bring up this
question in the past, as I figured that maybe replacing the original
system battery would fix this. I then did replace the battery but the
problem is still occurring.

I'd pick (1) before I'd pick (2).

And it could easily be a defect in the
charging circuit. I don't have a collection of such
circuits, so I cannot begin to give a breakdown on
what modes they've got and how they're controlled.
I presume there's a management IC for this purpose
(figuring out when to charge, checking charger
voltage or current flow).


Seeing as I've already replaced the original system battery, I'm
thinking perhaps the original system power brick may not be producing
enough wattage, thus it can't seem to recharge the battery and keep the
system powered on at the same time? Thus should I replace the system
brick now?


--
Sent from Giganews on Thunderbird on my Toshiba laptop
  #4  
Old November 22nd 17, 12:33 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Laptop charger?

Yousuf Khan wrote:


Seeing as I've already replaced the original system battery, I'm
thinking perhaps the original system power brick may not be producing
enough wattage, thus it can't seem to recharge the battery and keep the
system powered on at the same time? Thus should I replace the system
brick now?


Maybe it would help, but I just don't have the
info I need on laptop battery management to say
getting a new one is a sure thing. I think some
parts of the circuit use SMPS, some parts are linear,
the battery (load side) may be disconnected while
in charge state. But I have no documents to back
this up. The linear parts of the circuit
(battery path), might indeed produce the
symptoms you propose.

Since the battery does charge when the CPU load is
removed, that at least makes your proposal a possibility.
That if you got another adapter, it might help out,
as the battery charging path isn't completely
broken. If the battery didn't charge at all,
I wouldn't bother buying another adapter, as
there are no positive signs at all it would help.

I'd prefer to "break into the cable" and measure the
voltage with time. See if the normal 19V level is
dropping to 15 or 16V while the CPU is running. If
I were to see such a behavior, then I'd be much more
willing to go buy another.

I would have suggested this by now, but the brick is sealed,
and you're not going to find that 3 contact connector
"at Radio Shack". I don't have any sort of source
for some of those laptop connectors. Yes, the
two conductor barrel connector is available at
The Source (Bell Canada). There are at least
15 standard sizes for the two conductor barrel.

But the coaxial power connectors, they're a complete
zero in terms of convenient purchase. Maybe a Chinese
seller would carry them, but the odds of finding
just the right thing here are pretty poor. Nobody
would be building laptop bricks in Canada, because
we couldn't compete on price, so there's no need to
carry those connectors for prototyping.

I think it's worth a shot buying a replacement brick, but
I would feel *much better* about this, if I had some
volt meter readings to back up my hunch. Just buying
the adapter without further confirmation is going
way out on a limb.

Paul
  #5  
Old November 22nd 17, 03:51 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default Laptop charger?

On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:41:31 +0600, Yousuf Khan
wrote:

I realize this is not really a homebuilt PC question, but it is a PC
hardware question. I got a laptop that doesn't seem to charge its
battery while it's running. You need to completely shutdown the machine,
and leave it plugged in, and it'll recharge only then. If you are
running the machine with the cord plugged in, and if the charge is
anything below 100% charged, it will say that it's charging, but it
actually keeps losing its charge (for example, you might see it going
down from 75% to 74%, etc.). It will not charge while the machine is
running. Is this a problem with the power brick, or is it something
within the laptop circuitry itself, do you think?

Yousuf Khan


It may be the charger function is intended for most of its duty with
the laptop in an off state. Will it run the laptop alone, with the
battery pulled out? Some laptops offer that for a "feature" while
others do not. Feature limitations, perhaps, more relevant to an
earlier time when I last looked at a Satellite, Toshiba then being
pretty much the best money could buy. And I suspect its charging unit
wouldn't be any less about generally meeting quality standards.
  #6  
Old November 22nd 17, 06:17 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Laptop charger?

On 11/22/2017 4:36 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 22/11/2017 12:52 PM, Paul wrote:
A couple questions:

1) Are you using an "Ebay adapter" instead of the
Â*Â*Â* original adapter ? Did the original adapter have three
Â*Â*Â* contacts (maybe a TRS barrel), while the current adapter
Â*Â*Â* has only two contacts ? If so, the laptop cannot
Â*Â*Â* read the properties of the adapter. This happens on laptops
Â*Â*Â* that come in two models, and one of the models uses a
Â*Â*Â* "high power" adapter. The models make sure the adapter is
Â*Â*Â* correct for the job, by checking the ID.


No, it's actually still using its original Toshiba adapter. That's
partly the reason I'm asking about whether the power brick might be the
cause, because it is slightly old by now?

The brick is a 3-prong brick, rather than a 2-prong.

2) Is the battery a replacement battery, perhaps
Â*Â*Â* lacking the same fuel gauge as the original ?
Â*Â*Â* But that's a stretch.


Yes, it is actually a replacement battery, but this same problem was
occurring using the original battery too. I didn't bring up this
question in the past, as I figured that maybe replacing the original
system battery would fix this. I then did replace the battery but the
problem is still occurring.

I'd pick (1) before I'd pick (2).

And it could easily be a defect in the
charging circuit. I don't have a collection of such
circuits, so I cannot begin to give a breakdown on
what modes they've got and how they're controlled.
I presume there's a management IC for this purpose
(figuring out when to charge, checking charger
voltage or current flow).


Seeing as I've already replaced the original system battery, I'm
thinking perhaps the original system power brick may not be producing
enough wattage, thus it can't seem to recharge the battery and keep the
system powered on at the same time? Thus should I replace the system
brick now?



Just for clarification Yousef, I believe Paul meant the output barrel DC
connector, Not the AC plug.

Rene

  #7  
Old November 22nd 17, 06:25 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Laptop charger?

On 11/22/2017 5:33 AM, Paul wrote:
Yousuf Khan wrote:


Seeing as I've already replaced the original system battery, I'm
thinking perhaps the original system power brick may not be producing
enough wattage, thus it can't seem to recharge the battery and keep
the system powered on at the same time? Thus should I replace the
system brick now?


Maybe it would help, but I just don't have the
info I need on laptop battery management to say
getting a new one is a sure thing. I think some
parts of the circuit use SMPS, some parts are linear,
the battery (load side) may be disconnected while
in charge state. But I have no documents to back
this up. The linear parts of the circuit
(battery path), might indeed produce the
symptoms you propose.

Since the battery does charge when the CPU load is
removed, that at least makes your proposal a possibility.
That if you got another adapter, it might help out,
as the battery charging path isn't completely
broken. If the battery didn't charge at all,
I wouldn't bother buying another adapter, as
there are no positive signs at all it would help.

I'd prefer to "break into the cable" and measure the
voltage with time. See if the normal 19V level is
dropping to 15 or 16V while the CPU is running. If
I were to see such a behavior, then I'd be much more
willing to go buy another.

I would have suggested this by now, but the brick is sealed,
and you're not going to find that 3 contact connector
"at Radio Shack". I don't have any sort of source
for some of those laptop connectors. Yes, the
two conductor barrel connector is available at
The Source (Bell Canada). There are at least
15 standard sizes for the two conductor barrel.

But the coaxial power connectors, they're a complete
zero in terms of convenient purchase. Maybe a Chinese
seller would carry them, but the odds of finding
just the right thing here are pretty poor. Nobody
would be building laptop bricks in Canada, because
we couldn't compete on price, so there's no need to
carry those connectors for prototyping.

I think it's worth a shot buying a replacement brick, but
I would feel *much better* about this, if I had some
volt meter readings to back up my hunch. Just buying
the adapter without further confirmation is going
way out on a limb.

Â*Â* Paul


To test Any flat 2 or 3 wire low voltage cables I have a pair of test
leads with very fine needle points to probe thru the insulation and not
have to strip it.

WARNING. *Not to be used on line voltage AC cables*

Rene

  #8  
Old November 23rd 17, 02:27 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Laptop charger?

Rene Lamontagne wrote:




Just for clarification Yousef, I believe Paul meant the output barrel DC
connector, Not the AC plug.

Rene


Yes, I was referring to verifying the 19V DC output
of the brick. Stay away from the AC side.

Some power bricks have a coaxial three contact power
connector. And the third contact carries some sort
of config data or something. Some laptops can tell
the high power from the low power adapter SKU,
from something encoded on the third contact.

Paul
  #9  
Old November 23rd 17, 03:01 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Yousuf Khan[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,296
Default Laptop charger?

On 22/11/2017 8:51 PM, Flasherly wrote:
It may be the charger function is intended for most of its duty with
the laptop in an off state. Will it run the laptop alone, with the
battery pulled out? Some laptops offer that for a "feature" while
others do not. Feature limitations, perhaps, more relevant to an
earlier time when I last looked at a Satellite, Toshiba then being
pretty much the best money could buy. And I suspect its charging unit
wouldn't be any less about generally meeting quality standards.


Yeah, it can run the laptop alone without the battery plugged in. But in
the past, it was able to do both.

--
Sent from Giganews on Thunderbird on my Toshiba laptop
  #10  
Old November 24th 17, 06:31 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default Laptop charger?

On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 08:01:21 +0600, Yousuf Khan
wrote:

Yeah, it can run the laptop alone without the battery plugged in. But in
the past, it was able to do both.


If by both - aside from running without a battery, not to charge
properly while running *with* one - yeah, that's empirical hands-on,
something has since definitely deteriorated;- I'd also assumed you may
have bought it used. .

It also might be nice to start from square one, cover the bases, to
test and verify that the battery pack replacement, you've already
purchased, is the real deal and performing properly.

On a laptop power-pack reassembly, saving about half average costs, a
friend's method was to research the batteries for specifically
obtainable high-quality manufacture. About 6 cells, as I recall. He
then used a razor to cut open the sealed battery module. Due to heat,
he also had to use a special alloy "silver" solder for wiring their
array.

Then, as in now, the only rough edge encountered is battery size
deviations for standard model nomenclatures. He hadn't gone that far,
though, micrometer gauges for exact physical measurements. And when
he reassembled, glued the pack back together, there were some issues
in matching exactly to the laptop, the best rechargeables "money could
buy", which threatened to bulge out and split the pack.
 




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