NETWORKING PRINTER BETWEEN 98SE AND XP

The default IP address range for a Belkin router is different from a Linksys,
and potentially different from Netgear, too... Ben Myers

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:28:33 GMT, "Whelan" wrote:

Thanks. I'll check the ISP addresses ... I'm not sure about that.
(And maybe that is different since switching from Netgear to the Belkin
Wireless router. I haven't connected the Win98 machines since switching to
Belkin.)
Ray has a good point too, about Norton possibly playing a role.
Nan
"Angus Macleod" wrote in message
news:m4AIb.178975$8y1.559745@attbi_s52...
Are the machines connected to a router? Do they have local IP addresses
(192.168.....) or does each machine have an address assigned by your ISP?

Angus.

"Whelan" wrote in message
...
Thanks. I checked; they are both cleared.
Unfortunately that isn't the problem.

I just realized ... when the Compaq ran XPHome, it networked. The
problem
occurred after I reformatted it Summer 2002 and installed XP Pro.

So the problem must be XP Pro-related.
Nan

"Angus Macleod" wrote in message
news:8InIb.705383$Fm2.607550@attbi_s04...
Perhaps XP's built-in firewall is getting in the way.

Go to your connections and right click the one called Local Area
Network
and
select Properties. On the Advanced tab, ensure that "Protect my
computer..."
is unchecked.

Angus.

"Whelan" wrote in message
...
I've just spent 2 hours trying to get the Dell Dimension 4500 and
the
Compaq laptop to see each other.
NO LUCK.
They both are logged in as the same username and password.

There was nothing useful under Network Places so I ran the XP
Networking
Wizard on them (several times), restarting many times. I tried
different
workgroup names. A number of folders on each is Shared.

Each time I go to Network Places, there is nothing. When I choose
View
Workgroup Computers, it sputters almost a minute, then says
"(Workgroup name) is not accessible. You might not have permission
to
use
this network resource. Contact the administrator of this server to
find
out
if you have access permissions. The list of servers for this
workgroup
is
not currently available."

The username has Administrator privileges on both.

When under My Network Places, I choose View Network Connections,
under
LAN,
then Local Area Connection, then Properties-General, 4 boxes are
checked
on
each:
Client for Microsoft Networks,
File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks,
QoS Packet Scheduler,
and TCP/IP
Under Authentification, "Enable IEEE 802.1x authentification for
this
network" is checked (I don't know what that means!). EAP type says
"Smart
Card or other Certicate" but there are other choices,
"MD5-Challenge"
and
"Protected EAP"

What else can it be?

For 18 months now, I cannot get two XP computers to see each other!
Nan
"Albert Alcoceba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:42:51 GMT, "Whelan"
wrote:

Before changing routers, I never needed a password on my primary
computer
(Dell Dimension 4500, WinXPPro) and could access files on Win98
computers
(and vice-versa) when they were connected by cable. The Win98's
had
a
password.

But like I said earlier, the XPPro laptop (a Compaq) has never
shared
or
printed with either the Win98s or the Dimension. Now we've added
a
new
Dell
Inspiron laptop (XPPro) and it cannot share or print either.

I'm beginning to wonder ... do you have to run Win98 in order to
network?
I
just cannot get two XP computers to see each other. I don't
understand
why.

XP, like NT, is a proper secure operating system.

You will need to create users on both machines with same login
name
and password. You will need to grant these users privileges to
access
the various resources you want shared.

Albert Alcoceba


http://www.racysrailway.com/
Remove REMOVE

Yes! The workgroup name MSHOME leaves you vulnerable to someone "war-driving"
in your neighborhood with a notebook computer set up with the same workgroup.

There are also some wireless encryption features you can use, but the fact is
that if someone can see your computers and they have open-ended shares on the
hard drives and printers, these resources can be used and abused by someone on
the outside... Ben Myers

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:14:07 GMT, "Whelan" wrote:

BTW, I always had the most luck using the default Workgroup name MSHOME.
But that's probably the workgroup name used by millions of people. Does
using the default MSHOME leave you more vulnerable to intrusion, especially
in the WiFi era?

Any opinions on that?
And suppose you wanted to change your workgroup name, would you just re-run
the Wizard on all workstations?
Nan

"Chopperdad" wrote in message
...
I have almost the exact opposite problem. So long I had the printer
hooked
up to the 98SE computer, I could print off of either computer via the
network. When I switched it over the weekend to the XP computer, the 98SE
would not print to it although it knew it was out there on the network. I
can interchanges files and that, but I can't print to the printer from the
98SE machine now, but the speed that the printer prints from the XP Home
has
dramatic improved.

The workgroup name just governs how the visible machines are grouped under
My Network Places. It used to be vitally important when the NetBEUI protocol
was used. The way this list of computer names is assembled is the subject of
many Microsoft knowledge base articles. Machines may be accessible that do
not show in the list, and machines in the list might not be accessible any
more. The most reliable way to access another machine on the local network
is to use Search to search for the computer by name.

To change your workgroup name in WinXP, just right click on My Computer and
select Properties. You will see a tab labeled Computer Name where there is a
button to change the workgroup (or computer) name.

Angus.

"Whelan" wrote in message
...
BTW, I always had the most luck using the default Workgroup name MSHOME.
But that's probably the workgroup name used by millions of people. Does
using the default MSHOME leave you more vulnerable to intrusion,
especially
in the WiFi era?

Any opinions on that?
And suppose you wanted to change your workgroup name, would you just
re-run
the Wizard on all workstations?
Nan

"Chopperdad" wrote in message
...
I have almost the exact opposite problem. So long I had the printer
hooked
up to the 98SE computer, I could print off of either computer via the
network. When I switched it over the weekend to the XP computer, the
98SE
would not print to it although it knew it was out there on the network.
I
can interchanges files and that, but I can't print to the printer from
the
98SE machine now, but the speed that the printer prints from the XP Home
has
dramatic improved.

I looked the addresses up. They are the same EXCEPT IP address for one is
192.xxx.x.99 and the other is 192.xxx.x.56.

I just connected the Win98 laptop for the first time in 2 months. When I ran
winipcfg, it only listed Netgear and PPP, so I guess I have to let it know
about the Belkin router.
Nan
ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
The default IP address range for a Belkin router is different from a
Linksys,
and potentially different from Netgear, too... Ben Myers

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:28:33 GMT, "Whelan" wrote:

Thanks. I'll check the ISP addresses ... I'm not sure about that.
(And maybe that is different since switching from Netgear to the Belkin
Wireless router. I haven't connected the Win98 machines since switching
to
Belkin.)
Ray has a good point too, about Norton possibly playing a role.
Nan
"Angus Macleod" wrote in message
news:m4AIb.178975$8y1.559745@attbi_s52...
Are the machines connected to a router? Do they have local IP addresses
(192.168.....) or does each machine have an address assigned by your
ISP?

Angus.

"Whelan" wrote in message
...
Thanks. I checked; they are both cleared.
Unfortunately that isn't the problem.

I just realized ... when the Compaq ran XPHome, it networked. The
problem
occurred after I reformatted it Summer 2002 and installed XP Pro.

So the problem must be XP Pro-related.
Nan

"Angus Macleod" wrote in message
news:8InIb.705383$Fm2.607550@attbi_s04...
Perhaps XP's built-in firewall is getting in the way.

Go to your connections and right click the one called Local Area
Network
and
select Properties. On the Advanced tab, ensure that "Protect my
computer..."
is unchecked.

Angus.

"Whelan" wrote in message
...
I've just spent 2 hours trying to get the Dell Dimension 4500
and
the
Compaq laptop to see each other.
NO LUCK.
They both are logged in as the same username and password.

There was nothing useful under Network Places so I ran the XP
Networking
Wizard on them (several times), restarting many times. I tried
different
workgroup names. A number of folders on each is Shared.

Each time I go to Network Places, there is nothing. When I choose
View
Workgroup Computers, it sputters almost a minute, then says
"(Workgroup name) is not accessible. You might not have
permission
to
use
this network resource. Contact the administrator of this server
to
find
out
if you have access permissions. The list of servers for this
workgroup
is
not currently available."

The username has Administrator privileges on both.

When under My Network Places, I choose View Network Connections,
under
LAN,
then Local Area Connection, then Properties-General, 4 boxes are
checked
on
each:
Client for Microsoft Networks,
File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks,
QoS Packet Scheduler,
and TCP/IP
Under Authentification, "Enable IEEE 802.1x authentification for
this
network" is checked (I don't know what that means!). EAP type
says
"Smart
Card or other Certicate" but there are other choices,
"MD5-Challenge"
and
"Protected EAP"

What else can it be?

For 18 months now, I cannot get two XP computers to see each
other!
Nan
"Albert Alcoceba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:42:51 GMT, "Whelan"

wrote:

Before changing routers, I never needed a password on my
primary
computer
(Dell Dimension 4500, WinXPPro) and could access files on
Win98
computers
(and vice-versa) when they were connected by cable. The
Win98's
had
a
password.

But like I said earlier, the XPPro laptop (a Compaq) has never
shared
or
printed with either the Win98s or the Dimension. Now we've
added
a
new
Dell
Inspiron laptop (XPPro) and it cannot share or print either.

I'm beginning to wonder ... do you have to run Win98 in order
to
network?
I
just cannot get two XP computers to see each other. I don't
understand
why.

XP, like NT, is a proper secure operating system.

You will need to create users on both machines with same login
name
and password. You will need to grant these users privileges to
access
the various resources you want shared.

Albert Alcoceba


http://www.racysrailway.com/
Remove REMOVE

I disabled Norton (the Internet Security part) on the Dimension and the
Compaq laptop.
They still cannot share, but I am one step better than before.
Now they can see each other's name under the MSHome workgroup! And their own
shared folders too.
When I try to go beyond the other computer's name I get the message
\\Granite is not accessible. You might not have permission to use this
network resource. Contact the administrator ....
But seeing the name is some progress.

Ogden, I apologize, I didn't quite follow exactly what you did (just because
my attention span is too short right now).
But there were steps I had to take when I first added the Belkin....
Disconnect old router, go direct from modem to Dell, then add Belkin, etc.
Are you saying you had to do a similar routine with each of your computers?

I'll read it again more carefully later.
Nan

"Ogden Johnson III" wrote in message
...
"Whelan" wrote:

Thanks a lot, Ray. For the tips and for understanding my frustration.
The Sharing hands are visible, the DSL works on all.
I only have one 50' cable here now, so I've only tried one XP laptop at a
time. They are all connected (at times) through a new Belkin Wireless
Router. (I had a very reliable NetGear Gateway Router until Nov.30, but
the
XPs didn't network then either.)

But (Duh!) your last point could be the key.
They each have Norton Internet Security 2003 installed! That wasn't a
problem with the Win98s, but it's possible I haven't used them much since
the Norton 2002 expired and I replaced with 2003.

Now that you mention it, we recently set up 5 new computers and a server
at
my husband's office. After I installed my Norton 2003 on the workstations
there, it created sharing problems. You cannot install just the
Anti-Virus
part of Norton Internet Security 2003. But we could and did "disable" the
Internet Security portion, and that fixed the problem there.

I will try disabling the Norton Internet Security on all here, and see if
that is the problem. I didn't even think of that till you mentioned it!
I'll report back in a few hours.
Nan

Watching from the sidelines {since I am not a networking guru}, I
think you might be on to something regarding Norton. I say that
because my network set-up experience {as opposed to using the ones at
work} is limited to my mini-lan at home. Originally my "old faithful"
Win98SE PII machine plus a Dell L733r networked through a Linksys
BEFSR41 Cable/DSL router, it was perforce changed when old faithful
started giving up the ghost and I replaced it with a D4400 running
XPPro.

In order, I installed XPPro on the L733r also, moved the PII machine
off the network and put the D4400 in its place {installing all the app
programs and utilities that needed installing}, then reconfigured the
network between the D4400 as OJ#1, and the L733r as OJ#2, in the
workgroup. I then added the PII machine back into the network as
OJ#3, for as long as it took to move all of my data onto OJ#1, the new
Dell. I had no problems whatsoever doing all of this, and the network
didn't take too much time to reestablish under the new set-up - the
presence of Win98SE in the loop being no hindrance whatsoever.
Notably absent from all of this was Norton Internet Security. {FWIW,
while I was hanging out in the firewalls newsgroup when all this was
going on, the only S/W firewall that was the target of more disdain
than Zone Alarm was Norton Internet Security. {XP's native firewall
didn't rate even disdain, it was beyond the pale for habitues of that
newsgroup.}]
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

I just changed the workgroup name, using the easy method you suggested. (I
used my street name)
But what about Win 98?

I discovered that the Dell 4500 and the Gateway laptop (Win98 from 1998) can
see each other's files but the Gateway is part of a different named
workgroup (our last name).
Can I just change the name on that somehow, or should I run the Wizard again
on it? (Or just change the name of the XP workgroup to match the Gateway!)


(The two XPs still can't share but they see each other's existence now.)

BTW, the IP config #s on the Gateway are nothing like the other two, yet it
will share and see anything.

"Angus Macleod" wrote in message
news:YDHIb.86025$VB2.194313@attbi_s51...
The workgroup name just governs how the visible machines are grouped under
My Network Places. It used to be vitally important when the NetBEUI
protocol
was used. The way this list of computer names is assembled is the subject
of
many Microsoft knowledge base articles. Machines may be accessible that do
not show in the list, and machines in the list might not be accessible any
more. The most reliable way to access another machine on the local network
is to use Search to search for the computer by name.

To change your workgroup name in WinXP, just right click on My Computer
and
select Properties. You will see a tab labeled Computer Name where there is
a
button to change the workgroup (or computer) name.

Angus.

"Whelan" wrote in message
...
BTW, I always had the most luck using the default Workgroup name MSHOME.
But that's probably the workgroup name used by millions of people. Does
using the default MSHOME leave you more vulnerable to intrusion,
especially
in the WiFi era?

Any opinions on that?
And suppose you wanted to change your workgroup name, would you just
re-run
the Wizard on all workstations?
Nan

"Chopperdad" wrote in message
...
I have almost the exact opposite problem. So long I had the printer
hooked
up to the 98SE computer, I could print off of either computer via the
network. When I switched it over the weekend to the XP computer, the
98SE
would not print to it although it knew it was out there on the
network.
I
can interchanges files and that, but I can't print to the printer from
the
98SE machine now, but the speed that the printer prints from the XP
Home
has
dramatic improved.

"Whelan" wrote:

I disabled Norton (the Internet Security part) on the Dimension and the
Compaq laptop.
They still cannot share, but I am one step better than before.
Now they can see each other's name under the MSHome workgroup! And their own
shared folders too.
When I try to go beyond the other computer's name I get the message
\\Granite is not accessible. You might not have permission to use this
network resource. Contact the administrator ....
But seeing the name is some progress.

Ogden, I apologize, I didn't quite follow exactly what you did (just because
my attention span is too short right now).
But there were steps I had to take when I first added the Belkin....
Disconnect old router, go direct from modem to Dell, then add Belkin, etc.
Are you saying you had to do a similar routine with each of your computers?

Damfiremember. ;- Seriously, it all went so easily the first time.
The Win98 was my internet machine. I just disconnected the cable
modem, connected to the router, then followed the bouncing ball in the
Linksys's manual. There was a problem with the L733r/ME machine,
later identified as a M$ ME glitch, and it refused to find the network
when I ran the Wizard. I never installed the fix, though, just stayed
with the 98 connecting to the router connecting to the cable modem,
pending updating the L733r to XP.

When I did that changeover, the L733r, after XP installation, found
and joined the network when I ran the XP networking wizard. IIRC, I
had to share *something* in each machine, but that IIRC is
questionable nearly two years after the fact. After loading my apps,
etc., and connecting the D4400 to the router, it, too, only required a
quick run of that wizard to find things. On the Win98SE, since it
*had* been part of the network originally, I just had to edit its name
from OJ#1 to OJ#3, set some sharing, and go for it. However, again
IIRC, the XP networking wizard offers you a chance to create a disk to
automate the network setup on another machine(s), even a Win9x one. I
didn't use it. We had run a three/four machine peer-to-peer network
under 98SE at my old job, and I knew my way around setting up the NIC
card to talk to everyone - with the router manual's help. After all,
it had already been connected to the network as the sole computer on
it. ;-
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

www.practicallynetworked.com or www.helmig.com are good sources for network
troubles. XP Pro is a different bird when networking--I have it on 3
computers and hook up with 1 XP Home machine, 3 98SE machines. No problems
at all. How simple it is to set up depends largely on the security you want
on the XP Pro machine (simple file sharing vs. selected file sharing--my
term). If you just want to share the whole machine, enable simple file
sharing on the XP machine (look up help for this--easy but too long for
here). If you want to selectively share folders (a la 98SE), you have to go
through a more involved process with permissions, etc. This is NT stuff, and
really works great but is a little different to learn. XP Home has either
"simple file sharing" or "no file sharing". You share everything or nothing.
"Whelan" wrote in message
...

On the other hand, we have NEVER been able to share files or print from my
son's laptop that runs WinXPPro. We've tried sporadically for 18 months.
Sure wish we could figure that out!
Nan

Connecting XP Pro to 98 with file sharing security (not simple file sharing)
is easiest to do when the users of all machines log on with the same user
name with the same password.
I have a couple machines with XP Pro on a home network, and want to share
some resources but do not want some of them (work files) to show up (or be
messed with) by other users in the house. I can access them from any
computer by logging on with my same name and password, but unless I specify
permissions for other users, they can't access these folders/drives/etc..
Just like it was in Win 98, except XP Pro is more complicated to set up that
way.

...
Sorry about that double post.
Anyway, I answered part of my question.

In XPPro, when you go yo Control Panel, User Accounts, there is a choice
to
add a password, so it shouldn't be necessary to delete the user.

I didn't add a password yet ... is it necessary?
In the past this computer connected just fine with two Win 98 computers
....
I realize now that they all shared the same username and the Win98s also
had
a password for the username but this one (Dell4500 w/WinXP, primary
desktop)
never had a password. The Compaq laptop that could never connect or print
did not have the shared username on it!

Can the solution be that simple? Can't wait to try it!
(I'll deal with the wireless issue later.)
Nan


"Whelan" wrote in message
...
So, should you have a password for XP computers too?

That might mean more of those "cute" graphic icons at startup ... but if
that makes it work, it will be worth the clutter.

I understand deleting the pwl files in Win98 (done that plenty at
work)...
But is it more complicated to delete password-less users in XPPro?
Nan
ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Yes! Absolutely! A name and a password. The password absolutely IS
REQUIRED.

If you happen to like the name you've used to log in, and have left
the
password
blank (actually "null" in geek-ese), find all files on the hard drive
named
"*.pwl" (no quotes when entered in the Named field), then delete the
one
corresponding to the name you like. Next, log off and log on again,
then
time
with a name and password.

... Ben Myers

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:53:33 -0500, "Chopperdad"

wrote:

Ben,

Do I take this to mean that I have to log in with a password even if
I
don't
need to? I was just leaving it blank since that was what I was doing
on
a
friend's computer. although their did not have any network
involvement,
just
the fact that they had 98SE installed on their computer.

Scotty

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Scotty,

I have found that any Win 95/98/me computer that needs to access
resources
on
computer running Windows NT/2000/XP MUST have Client for Microsoft
Networks
installed and MUST login with a password. The lack of a login
password,
i.e.
blank password, or simply hitting the login Cancel button on the
95/98/Me
computer effectively prohibits access to any shared resources on
the
other
computer. In other words, NT rules dictate that all computers in
the
net
log in
with passwords in order to access files and printers on an NT-class
operating
system.

I hope this helps... Ben Myers

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:52:18 -0500, "Chopperdad"

wrote:

I have almost the exact opposite problem. So long I had the
printer
hooked
up to the 98SE computer, I could print off of either computer via
the
network. When I switched it over the weekend to the XP computer,
the
98SE
would not print to it although it knew it was out there on the
network.
I
can interchanges files and that, but I can't print to the printer
from
the
98SE machine now, but the speed that the printer prints from the
XP
Home
has
dramatic improved.

To change the computer or workgroup names on Win98, right click on Network
Neighborhood and select properties. The Identification tab allows you to
change the names.

Angus.

"Whelan" wrote in message
...
I just changed the workgroup name, using the easy method you suggested. (I
used my street name)
But what about Win 98?

I discovered that the Dell 4500 and the Gateway laptop (Win98 from 1998)
can
see each other's files but the Gateway is part of a different named
workgroup (our last name).
Can I just change the name on that somehow, or should I run the Wizard
again
on it? (Or just change the name of the XP workgroup to match the Gateway!)


(The two XPs still can't share but they see each other's existence now.)

BTW, the IP config #s on the Gateway are nothing like the other two, yet
it
will share and see anything.

"Angus Macleod" wrote in message
news:YDHIb.86025$VB2.194313@attbi_s51...
The workgroup name just governs how the visible machines are grouped
under
My Network Places. It used to be vitally important when the NetBEUI
protocol
was used. The way this list of computer names is assembled is the
subject
of
many Microsoft knowledge base articles. Machines may be accessible that
do
not show in the list, and machines in the list might not be accessible
any
more. The most reliable way to access another machine on the local
network
is to use Search to search for the computer by name.

To change your workgroup name in WinXP, just right click on My Computer
and
select Properties. You will see a tab labeled Computer Name where there
is
a
button to change the workgroup (or computer) name.

Angus.

"Whelan" wrote in message
...
BTW, I always had the most luck using the default Workgroup name
MSHOME.
But that's probably the workgroup name used by millions of people.
Does
using the default MSHOME leave you more vulnerable to intrusion,
especially
in the WiFi era?

Any opinions on that?
And suppose you wanted to change your workgroup name, would you just
re-run
the Wizard on all workstations?
Nan

"Chopperdad" wrote in message
...
I have almost the exact opposite problem. So long I had the printer
hooked
up to the 98SE computer, I could print off of either computer via
the
network. When I switched it over the weekend to the XP computer,
the
98SE
would not print to it although it knew it was out there on the
network.
I
can interchanges files and that, but I can't print to the printer
from
the
98SE machine now, but the speed that the printer prints from the XP
Home
has
dramatic improved.