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hard disk transfer speed changed



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 20th 17, 02:25 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John B. Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

When backing up one logical drive today I noticed Drive Image was
taking a long time to 'scan' all the drives before it declared itself
ready.
(When I back up my system drive I use Macrium, but when I back up this
particular drive I use old Power Quest Drive Image because it allows
me to set a password).
Eventually I was able to back up the drive. It did seem to take longer
than usual though.
For some reason I later used HD Tune to ck my 2 drives, the 500g
system drive and the 1000g data drive. The 500 reported the usual
170Mb per second. The 1000 reports only 4Mb per second!
Otherwise HD Tune reports the drive healthy and working.
I'm pretty sure it really has slowed down from the above 2
indications. Anybody have any idea what's going on?
  #2  
Old November 20th 17, 02:32 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John B. Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

Sorry, forgot to mention I'm using XP

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:25:51 -0500, John B. Smith
wrote:

When backing up one logical drive today I noticed Drive Image was
taking a long time to 'scan' all the drives before it declared itself
ready.
(When I back up my system drive I use Macrium, but when I back up this
particular drive I use old Power Quest Drive Image because it allows
me to set a password).
Eventually I was able to back up the drive. It did seem to take longer
than usual though.
For some reason I later used HD Tune to ck my 2 drives, the 500g
system drive and the 1000g data drive. The 500 reported the usual
170Mb per second. The 1000 reports only 4Mb per second!
Otherwise HD Tune reports the drive healthy and working.
I'm pretty sure it really has slowed down from the above 2
indications. Anybody have any idea what's going on?

  #3  
Old November 20th 17, 02:37 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John B. Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

Forgot to mention both drives are SATA

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:25:51 -0500, John B. Smith
wrote:

When backing up one logical drive today I noticed Drive Image was
taking a long time to 'scan' all the drives before it declared itself
ready.
(When I back up my system drive I use Macrium, but when I back up this
particular drive I use old Power Quest Drive Image because it allows
me to set a password).
Eventually I was able to back up the drive. It did seem to take longer
than usual though.
For some reason I later used HD Tune to ck my 2 drives, the 500g
system drive and the 1000g data drive. The 500 reported the usual
170Mb per second. The 1000 reports only 4Mb per second!
Otherwise HD Tune reports the drive healthy and working.
I'm pretty sure it really has slowed down from the above 2
indications. Anybody have any idea what's going on?

  #4  
Old November 20th 17, 03:25 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

John B. Smith wrote:
Forgot to mention both drives are SATA

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:25:51 -0500, John B. Smith
wrote:

When backing up one logical drive today I noticed Drive Image was
taking a long time to 'scan' all the drives before it declared itself
ready.
(When I back up my system drive I use Macrium, but when I back up this
particular drive I use old Power Quest Drive Image because it allows
me to set a password).
Eventually I was able to back up the drive. It did seem to take longer
than usual though.
For some reason I later used HD Tune to ck my 2 drives, the 500g
system drive and the 1000g data drive. The 500 reported the usual
170Mb per second. The 1000 reports only 4Mb per second!
Otherwise HD Tune reports the drive healthy and working.
I'm pretty sure it really has slowed down from the above 2
indications. Anybody have any idea what's going on?


You're in PIO mode.

This shouldn't happen.

When there is a measurable error rate, the driver scheme
changes transfer rates, in an attempt to reduce the error
rate. But it doesn't take that many "gear down" attempts
by the driver, until it's in polled transfer mode,
a word is transferred at a time by the CPU. That
destroys transfer rate performance.

When you look in the appropriate dialog, you'll see
that DMA is no longer listed, and it's changed to PIO.
But I can tell just by your transfer rate, what just
happened. "4" is a popular number - that's what I'm using
as evidence.

*******

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...-out-or-crc-er

devmgmt.msc

Expand the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers node.

Double-click the controller for which you want
to restore the typical DMA transfer mode.

Click the Driver tab.
Click Uninstall.

When the process completes, restart your computer. When
Windows restarts, the hard disk controller is re-enumerated and
the transfer mode is reset to the default value for each device
that is connected to the controller.

Paul
  #5  
Old November 20th 17, 04:43 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Yousuf Khan[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,296
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

On 20/11/2017 8:25 AM, Paul wrote:
You're in PIO mode.

This shouldn't happen.

When there is a measurable error rate, the driver scheme
changes transfer rates, in an attempt to reduce the error
rate. But it doesn't take that many "gear down" attempts
by the driver, until it's in polled transfer mode,
a word is transferred at a time by the CPU. That
destroys transfer rate performance.

When you look in the appropriate dialog, you'll see
that DMA is no longer listed, and it's changed to PIO.
But I can tell just by your transfer rate, what just
happened. "4" is a popular number - that's what I'm using
as evidence.


Ah, brings back old memories from the XP and pre-XP days. I haven't
heard of the driver switching to PIO mode in years! I don't think that
even exists in modern Windows, does it? I haven't seen it happen in years.

Yousuf Khan

--
Sent from Giganews on Thunderbird on my Toshiba laptop
  #6  
Old November 20th 17, 06:18 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:25:51 -0500, John B. Smith
wrote:

When backing up one logical drive today I noticed Drive Image was
taking a long time to 'scan' all the drives before it declared itself
ready.
(When I back up my system drive I use Macrium, but when I back up this
particular drive I use old Power Quest Drive Image because it allows
me to set a password).
Eventually I was able to back up the drive. It did seem to take longer
than usual though.
For some reason I later used HD Tune to ck my 2 drives, the 500g
system drive and the 1000g data drive. The 500 reported the usual
170Mb per second. The 1000 reports only 4Mb per second!
Otherwise HD Tune reports the drive healthy and working.
I'm pretty sure it really has slowed down from the above 2
indications. Anybody have any idea what's going on?


All things being equal (XP/SATA), I get a similar result -between two
program file managers- one being faster than the other - e.g., Turbo
Navigator and Total Commander;- TC is the newer and faster of the two,
(as well possessing a greater integrity), although they're both
relatively ancient for publication or release dates.

Not of course neither is so old as possibly to switch into PIO modes,
or otherwise to incur unacceptable discrepancy. CRC redundancy
checking, for instance, sustains an added software layer, at some
higher level, than might, additionally, a defragmentation program,
however disparate, in your case, block-sectional, binary streaming
manipulatives.

A recently purchased MB, I have, suffers marginally slow disc access
due to hardware controller issues, of possible mismatch to their
drivers, as given definable choice to a BIOS selection, both to access
and define the OS install, from a combination of means and resources
available. Of course, a less than standard optimal, I have yet to
address, to presuppose I may succeed, as I wish, to improve
defragmentation through the reinstallation of an OS.

Oddly, nothing else causes noticeably protracted disc-transx
performance, such as stepping on a 4Mb/sec landmine you mention.
Although I'm less than enamored, as well, and though computers no
doubt are precise, they do seem, at times, still, less than exact
about being properly coerced: Seemly being more or less within a
realization of what _I paid_ for a "cheap" $50 motherboard, as may not
apply to either perceived or actual limitation of experience.

I suggest first you separate benchmarks from data-streaming imaging
programs. Satisfy them individually before a final combination for
making inferences between them, that they both exhibit confidence at
an optimal for your hardware. That will apparently involve evaluating
a selection of programs and software to achieve the optimal, since
you've already provided the sub-optimal;. . .no optimal being,
conversely, that then indeed you will be looking at hardware issues.
  #7  
Old November 20th 17, 07:07 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Rodney Pont[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 21:25:52 -0500, Paul wrote:

When you look in the appropriate dialog, you'll see
that DMA is no longer listed, and it's changed to PIO.
But I can tell just by your transfer rate, what just
happened. "4" is a popular number - that's what I'm using
as evidence.

*******

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...-out-or-crc-er

devmgmt.msc

Expand the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers node.

Double-click the controller for which you want
to restore the typical DMA transfer mode.

Click the Driver tab.
Click Uninstall.

When the process completes, restart your computer. When
Windows restarts, the hard disk controller is re-enumerated and
the transfer mode is reset to the default value for each device
that is connected to the controller.


I'd also suggest removing the cable and plugging it back in at both
ends to make sure it's making a good contact and if it's not fixed try
another SATA cable. I have to say I didn't think SATA could run in PIO
mode though.

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed http://www.500kmh.com/


  #8  
Old November 21st 17, 02:01 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John B. Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 21:25:52 -0500, Paul
wrote:

John B. Smith wrote:
Forgot to mention both drives are SATA

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:25:51 -0500, John B. Smith
wrote:

When backing up one logical drive today I noticed Drive Image was
taking a long time to 'scan' all the drives before it declared itself
ready.
(When I back up my system drive I use Macrium, but when I back up this
particular drive I use old Power Quest Drive Image because it allows
me to set a password).
Eventually I was able to back up the drive. It did seem to take longer
than usual though.
For some reason I later used HD Tune to ck my 2 drives, the 500g
system drive and the 1000g data drive. The 500 reported the usual
170Mb per second. The 1000 reports only 4Mb per second!
Otherwise HD Tune reports the drive healthy and working.
I'm pretty sure it really has slowed down from the above 2
indications. Anybody have any idea what's going on?


You're in PIO mode.

This shouldn't happen.

When there is a measurable error rate, the driver scheme
changes transfer rates, in an attempt to reduce the error
rate. But it doesn't take that many "gear down" attempts
by the driver, until it's in polled transfer mode,
a word is transferred at a time by the CPU. That
destroys transfer rate performance.

When you look in the appropriate dialog, you'll see
that DMA is no longer listed, and it's changed to PIO.
But I can tell just by your transfer rate, what just
happened. "4" is a popular number - that's what I'm using
as evidence.

*******

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...-out-or-crc-er

devmgmt.msc

Expand the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers node.

Double-click the controller for which you want
to restore the typical DMA transfer mode.

Click the Driver tab.
Click Uninstall.

When the process completes, restart your computer. When
Windows restarts, the hard disk controller is re-enumerated and
the transfer mode is reset to the default value for each device
that is connected to the controller.

Paul


Thank you much I didn't expect to zero in on this problem so quickly.
I booted into Win7 and when I finally managed to download an HD Tune
it said my suspect disk xfer speed was normal on the 1000g drive. That
certainly eliminates the drive from consideration.

In XP Device Manager shows:
2 Primary IDE channels,
2 Secondary IDE Channels
and 2 Serial ATA Storage Controllers (these being Controller 1 - 2920,
and Controller 2 - 2926)

The Secondary IDE controller does say it is currently in PIO mode.
But seems like the controllers I should be concerned
about are the SERIAL ones? and they don't give any
indication of their xfer mode.
So I wonder how I can determine which of these 6 listed controllers
are the one I should uninstall the driver on? I'm too chicken to start
deleting drivers without knowing which one is driving that 1000g
drive. The 500g drive has XP and Win7 partitions and that BCD stuff on
it I'd hate to disturb.
  #9  
Old November 21st 17, 03:31 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

John B. Smith wrote:
On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 21:25:52 -0500, Paul
wrote:

John B. Smith wrote:
Forgot to mention both drives are SATA

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:25:51 -0500, John B. Smith
wrote:

When backing up one logical drive today I noticed Drive Image was
taking a long time to 'scan' all the drives before it declared itself
ready.
(When I back up my system drive I use Macrium, but when I back up this
particular drive I use old Power Quest Drive Image because it allows
me to set a password).
Eventually I was able to back up the drive. It did seem to take longer
than usual though.
For some reason I later used HD Tune to ck my 2 drives, the 500g
system drive and the 1000g data drive. The 500 reported the usual
170Mb per second. The 1000 reports only 4Mb per second!
Otherwise HD Tune reports the drive healthy and working.
I'm pretty sure it really has slowed down from the above 2
indications. Anybody have any idea what's going on?

You're in PIO mode.

This shouldn't happen.

When there is a measurable error rate, the driver scheme
changes transfer rates, in an attempt to reduce the error
rate. But it doesn't take that many "gear down" attempts
by the driver, until it's in polled transfer mode,
a word is transferred at a time by the CPU. That
destroys transfer rate performance.

When you look in the appropriate dialog, you'll see
that DMA is no longer listed, and it's changed to PIO.
But I can tell just by your transfer rate, what just
happened. "4" is a popular number - that's what I'm using
as evidence.

*******

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...-out-or-crc-er

devmgmt.msc

Expand the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers node.

Double-click the controller for which you want
to restore the typical DMA transfer mode.

Click the Driver tab.
Click Uninstall.

When the process completes, restart your computer. When
Windows restarts, the hard disk controller is re-enumerated and
the transfer mode is reset to the default value for each device
that is connected to the controller.

Paul


Thank you much I didn't expect to zero in on this problem so quickly.
I booted into Win7 and when I finally managed to download an HD Tune
it said my suspect disk xfer speed was normal on the 1000g drive. That
certainly eliminates the drive from consideration.

In XP Device Manager shows:
2 Primary IDE channels,
2 Secondary IDE Channels
and 2 Serial ATA Storage Controllers (these being Controller 1 - 2920,
and Controller 2 - 2926)

The Secondary IDE controller does say it is currently in PIO mode.
But seems like the controllers I should be concerned
about are the SERIAL ones? and they don't give any
indication of their xfer mode.
So I wonder how I can determine which of these 6 listed controllers
are the one I should uninstall the driver on? I'm too chicken to start
deleting drivers without knowing which one is driving that 1000g
drive. The 500g drive has XP and Win7 partitions and that BCD stuff on
it I'd hate to disturb.


Let's take my current motherboard as an example.

If you put the SATA ports in Compatible mode,
it shows up as *IDE* in Device manager.

My machine uses a P5E Deluxe motherboard.

https://www.asus.com/media/global/pr...APcjm9_500.jpg

From lower left towards right in the picture.

6 x SATA connectors (3x2 tower connector stacks)
1 x IDE connector for two devices (red colored right-angle IDE)
1 x Floppy disk drive connector (black, vertical connector)

Southbridge (X48/ICH9R)

- 6 x SATA3.0 Gb/s ports (pure SATA Southbridge)
- 1 x UltraDMA133 IDE (Jmicron chip)
- 1 x Floppy disk drive connector (SuperI/O)

The motherboard BIOS supports "Compatible" and "Enhanced" modes
for IDE emulation on the SATA ports.

Now, let's look at Device manager. (The PostImage web site
sometimes inserts extra underscore characters as it sees fit)

https://s7.postimg.org/4hifp2ouz/my_...ulates_IDE.gif

The three plugged-in hard drives are in "pretend" UDMA5
mode. Actual transfers happen at cable speed, not UDMA5.

However, I *have* had one of the ports drop to PIO
several times, until I replaced the cable. I had to
follow the article I presented, as a workaround.

There is an error counter on the hard drive. The error
counter cannot be reset. It gives some indication of
cable damage, in the transmit direction, towards
the drive. You can use that counter as an advanced
indication of trouble. In the reverse direction,
towards the motherboard, cable errors could eventually
drop the interface to actual PIO mode. The PIO mode
is emulated, and the CPU is peeking some buffer,
a 32-bit word at a time.

And yes, you can even delete the boot drive, and it
will be re-discovered on boot. And the mode gets reset.
I know, because I've done it :-) More than once. Grrr.

Paul
  #10  
Old November 22nd 17, 08:22 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John B. Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default hard disk transfer speed changed

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:31:15 -0500, Paul
wrote:

John B. Smith wrote:
On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 21:25:52 -0500, Paul
wrote:

John B. Smith wrote:
Forgot to mention both drives are SATA

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:25:51 -0500, John B. Smith
wrote:

When backing up one logical drive today I noticed Drive Image was
taking a long time to 'scan' all the drives before it declared itself
ready.
(When I back up my system drive I use Macrium, but when I back up this
particular drive I use old Power Quest Drive Image because it allows
me to set a password).
Eventually I was able to back up the drive. It did seem to take longer
than usual though.
For some reason I later used HD Tune to ck my 2 drives, the 500g
system drive and the 1000g data drive. The 500 reported the usual
170Mb per second. The 1000 reports only 4Mb per second!
Otherwise HD Tune reports the drive healthy and working.
I'm pretty sure it really has slowed down from the above 2
indications. Anybody have any idea what's going on?
You're in PIO mode.

This shouldn't happen.

When there is a measurable error rate, the driver scheme
changes transfer rates, in an attempt to reduce the error
rate. But it doesn't take that many "gear down" attempts
by the driver, until it's in polled transfer mode,
a word is transferred at a time by the CPU. That
destroys transfer rate performance.

When you look in the appropriate dialog, you'll see
that DMA is no longer listed, and it's changed to PIO.
But I can tell just by your transfer rate, what just
happened. "4" is a popular number - that's what I'm using
as evidence.

*******

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...-out-or-crc-er

devmgmt.msc

Expand the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers node.

Double-click the controller for which you want
to restore the typical DMA transfer mode.

Click the Driver tab.
Click Uninstall.

When the process completes, restart your computer. When
Windows restarts, the hard disk controller is re-enumerated and
the transfer mode is reset to the default value for each device
that is connected to the controller.

Paul


Thank you much I didn't expect to zero in on this problem so quickly.
I booted into Win7 and when I finally managed to download an HD Tune
it said my suspect disk xfer speed was normal on the 1000g drive. That
certainly eliminates the drive from consideration.

In XP Device Manager shows:
2 Primary IDE channels,
2 Secondary IDE Channels
and 2 Serial ATA Storage Controllers (these being Controller 1 - 2920,
and Controller 2 - 2926)

The Secondary IDE controller does say it is currently in PIO mode.
But seems like the controllers I should be concerned
about are the SERIAL ones? and they don't give any
indication of their xfer mode.
So I wonder how I can determine which of these 6 listed controllers
are the one I should uninstall the driver on? I'm too chicken to start
deleting drivers without knowing which one is driving that 1000g
drive. The 500g drive has XP and Win7 partitions and that BCD stuff on
it I'd hate to disturb.


Let's take my current motherboard as an example.

If you put the SATA ports in Compatible mode,
it shows up as *IDE* in Device manager.

My machine uses a P5E Deluxe motherboard.

https://www.asus.com/media/global/pr...APcjm9_500.jpg

From lower left towards right in the picture.

6 x SATA connectors (3x2 tower connector stacks)
1 x IDE connector for two devices (red colored right-angle IDE)
1 x Floppy disk drive connector (black, vertical connector)

Southbridge (X48/ICH9R)

- 6 x SATA3.0 Gb/s ports (pure SATA Southbridge)
- 1 x UltraDMA133 IDE (Jmicron chip)
- 1 x Floppy disk drive connector (SuperI/O)

The motherboard BIOS supports "Compatible" and "Enhanced" modes
for IDE emulation on the SATA ports.

Now, let's look at Device manager. (The PostImage web site
sometimes inserts extra underscore characters as it sees fit)

https://s7.postimg.org/4hifp2ouz/my_...ulates_IDE.gif

The three plugged-in hard drives are in "pretend" UDMA5
mode. Actual transfers happen at cable speed, not UDMA5.

However, I *have* had one of the ports drop to PIO
several times, until I replaced the cable. I had to
follow the article I presented, as a workaround.

There is an error counter on the hard drive. The error
counter cannot be reset. It gives some indication of
cable damage, in the transmit direction, towards
the drive. You can use that counter as an advanced
indication of trouble. In the reverse direction,
towards the motherboard, cable errors could eventually
drop the interface to actual PIO mode. The PIO mode
is emulated, and the CPU is peeking some buffer,
a 32-bit word at a time.

And yes, you can even delete the boot drive, and it
will be re-discovered on boot. And the mode gets reset.
I know, because I've done it :-) More than once. Grrr.

Paul

I had only one device in the DM's IDE controllers showing PIO in the
Current Transfer Mode box. That was in the 2nd Secondary IDE Channel
folder. So I tried your Driver Uninstall method on that one first.
After the reboot it said it was installing a new CD. My DVD player's
letter had changed from X to E. At first I thought I'd picked the
wrong folder to try but luckily it occurred to me to HD Tune check the
speed of the 1000g hard drive and IT WAS BACK TO THE CORRECT XFER
SPEED! AND, the letters did not change on the drive which was helpful.
Per the BIOS I have that drive on SATA 4 and the X: dvd player is on
SATA 2. (there was no science to way I've connected them it just kinda
grew)
I learned that Not Applicable Xfer Speed means nothing hooked up on
that channel.
I have 2 items remaining items in DM's IDE controllers whose current
mode is Ultra DMA 5, These would be SATAs 3 and 6, the 500g drive and
the CD writer. I have no idea how to tell which is which in Device
Mgr.
I found copious instructions on Google for editing the hell out of the
Registry for this problem. Hopefully I'll never have to attempt that.

Again, thanks a whole bunch for your assistance, if I'd finally
deduced the PIO problem myself and attempted to follow the
instructions I found online I think I'd have shot myself in the foot a
few times. I did have a recent backup before I started messing.
 




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