HOW2 copy IDE to SATA?

I read:
You can buy integrated motherboards that allow a computer to use
both SATA and IDE hard drives. However, only one of the two may be
used at any given time and both cannot be used simultaneously.


So if they can't run on the same PC at the same time, how do you
copy your old IDEs to a SATA?

Are SATAs as reliable as IDE?

== TIA

writes:
I read:

You can buy integrated motherboards that allow a computer to use both
SATA and IDE hard drives. However, only one of the two may be used at
any given time and both cannot be used simultaneously.

So if they can't run on the same PC at the same time, how do you copy
your old IDEs to a SATA?

Use two PCs or an external dock.

(Or avoid those motherboards and get one with SATA and IDE ports that
can be used concurrently.)

Are SATAs as reliable as IDE?

The connectivity doesn't make much difference to the rest of the drive.

--
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On 11/06/12 21:33, wrote:
I read:
You can buy integrated motherboards that allow a computer to use
both SATA and IDE hard drives. However, only one of the two may be
used at any given time and both cannot be used simultaneously.

You obviously got take for a ride. All the IDe/sata combo motherboards
that I have do allow you to use the SATa& IDE at the same time.

wrote:
I read:
You can buy integrated motherboards that allow a computer to use
both SATA and IDE hard drives. However, only one of the two may be
used at any given time and both cannot be used simultaneously.


So if they can't run on the same PC at the same time, how do you
copy your old IDEs to a SATA?

Are SATAs as reliable as IDE?

== TIA


The premise of this question is wrong.

The only time you have to be concerned, is with products like this.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-145-064-Z04?$S640W$

When a single storage device (holds one hard drive) has multiple
interfaces on the back, you can only cable up one data cable
at a time. You can't wire up both the Firewire and USB interfaces
on the same hard drive, to the same computer. That would cause
two adapter chips inside the hard drive enclosure, to be enabled
at the same time, and they would "fight" because they use a
simple wired-or multiplexing scheme. (Not all enclosures are
wired this way, but enough were to make it a concern.)

Firewire ---- firewire_chip ----+
Connector |
+--- common_bus ---- hard drive
|
USB2 -------- USB_chip ---------+
Connector

Only one of the two chips on the left, can be turned on at a time. So
either the external enclosure and its hard drive, can operate in
"Firewire mode" or in "USB2 mode", but not both at the same time.

The poorly written user manual, may not even mention it.

*******

Most anything else in computers, consists of "independent" interfaces.
*All* of my computers here, containing both SATA and IDE ribbon cable
connectors, can entertain SATA and IDE drives at the same time.

Computer ---- independent_interface_#1 ----- hard drive
---- independent_interface_#2 ----- hard drive

I can copy stuff from one drive to the other, all day long if I like.
In fact, I did such a SATA to IDE copy, not two hours ago.

*******

Let's look at another kind of adapter.

"SATA/IDE to USB 2.0 Adapter"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812232002

A nice looking picture.

http://www.vantecusa.com/system/appl...au2-back-s.jpg

That adapter has a SATA connector, a 2.5" IDE connector, a 3.5" IDE connector.
Only one of those can be used at a time. The adapter is not intended to
simultaneously support three hard drives.

It would be pretty hard for me to pick all of the possible adapter types
apart, as to what they support. The thing is, for the most part,
*all* the connectors inside the computer, on the motherboard surface,
are intended to be the "independent" type. Meaning, you can use all
of them at the same time. Only occasionally, do you run into
dependencies (a few Gigabyte boards, where plugging in a x4 PCI
Express card, disables the x1 slots). For the most part, you
can assume all interfaces are independent in there, unless the
user manual tells you otherwise. The issue with the Gigabyte
motherboard was unfortunate, because at least one user couldn't
fill his PC with TV tuner cards because of it. But that kind of
thing doesn't happen too often.

Standalone hardware devices, with multiple disk interfaces,
you have to be a little more careful with those. And typically,
not even the manual would explain about not using all the
interfaces at the same time.

*******

OK, here's another one. A NAS with room for four hard drives.
Of course they're independent. You can stuff one, or two, or three,
or four drives in here. And they aren't dependent on the presence
or absence of the others.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/22-122-062-Z02?$S640W$

The back of that box, isn't nearly as easy to figure out. It has
two RJ-45 network interfaces and three USB connectors. To figure
out what to do with the connectors, you crack open that user manual :-)

Paul

On 6/11/2012 7:33 AM, wrote:
I read:
You can buy integrated motherboards that allow a computer to use
both SATA and IDE hard drives. However, only one of the two may be
used at any given time and both cannot be used simultaneously.


So if they can't run on the same PC at the same time, how do you
copy your old IDEs to a SATA?

Are SATAs as reliable as IDE?

== TIA


In the olden days when SATA was bleeding edge technology a few motherboards
had kludged BIOSs which limited what could be done with mixed IDE and SATA.
Thankfully, this was a long time ago and no recent system has had such
problem. In fact, it seems that IDE connectors have pretty much disappeared
from what I've seen from the big makers and modern chipsets. For a while
there seemed to be a reduction to a single IDE connector, supposedly for
connecting legacy optical drives. Does anybody actually still include them?

On 06/11/2012 07:19 AM, John McGaw wrote:
On 6/11/2012 7:33 AM, wrote:
I read:
You can buy integrated motherboards that allow a computer to use
both SATA and IDE hard drives. However, only one of the two may be
used at any given time and both cannot be used simultaneously.


So if they can't run on the same PC at the same time, how do you
copy your old IDEs to a SATA?

Are SATAs as reliable as IDE?

== TIA


In the olden days when SATA was bleeding edge technology a few
motherboards had kludged BIOSs which limited what could be done with
mixed IDE and SATA. Thankfully, this was a long time ago and no recent
system has had such problem. In fact, it seems that IDE connectors have
pretty much disappeared from what I've seen from the big makers and
modern chipsets. For a while there seemed to be a reduction to a single
IDE connector, supposedly for connecting legacy optical drives. Does
anybody actually still include them?



I certainly appreciate the IDE port on my Gigabyte mainboard, as it
affords me the ability to connect a legacy device to my machine.

I feel the same about the FDD port, although I must admit I haven't used
it in years.

Sometimes I feel bad for the demise of the floppy, they were king in
their day.

Jon

On 6/11/2012 9:41 AM, Jon Danniken wrote:
On 06/11/2012 07:19 AM, John McGaw wrote:
On 6/11/2012 7:33 AM, wrote:
I read:
You can buy integrated motherboards that allow a computer to use
both SATA and IDE hard drives. However, only one of the two may be
used at any given time and both cannot be used simultaneously.


So if they can't run on the same PC at the same time, how do you
copy your old IDEs to a SATA?

Are SATAs as reliable as IDE?

== TIA


In the olden days when SATA was bleeding edge technology a few
motherboards had kludged BIOSs which limited what could be done with
mixed IDE and SATA. Thankfully, this was a long time ago and no recent
system has had such problem. In fact, it seems that IDE connectors have
pretty much disappeared from what I've seen from the big makers and
modern chipsets. For a while there seemed to be a reduction to a single
IDE connector, supposedly for connecting legacy optical drives. Does
anybody actually still include them?



I certainly appreciate the IDE port on my Gigabyte mainboard, as it
affords me the ability to connect a legacy device to my machine.

I feel the same about the FDD port, although I must admit I haven't used
it in years.

Sometimes I feel bad for the demise of the floppy, they were king in
their day.

Agreed. And I still say, in the face of all evidence, that my car has
better acceleration when I have my buggy whip in hand.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:41:03 -0700, Jon Danniken wrote:

I certainly appreciate the IDE port on my Gigabyte mainboard, as it
affords me the ability to connect a legacy device to my machine.

For those without an IDE port on their mainboard, they can always buy
a USB to IDE adapter/case which are still in plentiful supply at
various supermarkets and chain stores.

Sometimes I feel bad for the demise of the floppy, they were king in
their day.

USB floppy drives are available.

On Jun 11, 4:33*am, wrote:
I read:

You *can *buy *integrated motherboards that allow a computer to use
both *SATA and IDE hard drives. However, only one of the two may be
used *at *any *given *time *and both cannot be used simultaneously.

So if they can't run on the same PC at the same time, how do you
copy your old IDEs to a SATA?

I've never had a problem doing that using the built-in SATA IDE and
PATA IDE ports of a motherboard together, but sometimes a plug-in PCI
card SATA or PATA controller didn't get along with the motherboard's
built-in controller, and this included the two most popular types of
PCI controllers, based on the VIA VT6421A or Silicon Image SiL3x12
chip. However I was told my problem may have been due to Windows XP
not handling interrupts well.

The controller cards selling for $2-10 on Ebay are the same as those
costing $20-30 from other dealers.

larry moe 'n curly wrote:
On Jun 11, 4:33 am, wrote:
I read:

You can buy integrated motherboards that allow a computer to use
both SATA and IDE hard drives. However, only one of the two may be
used at any given time and both cannot be used simultaneously.
So if they can't run on the same PC at the same time, how do you
copy your old IDEs to a SATA?

I've never had a problem doing that using the built-in SATA IDE and
PATA IDE ports of a motherboard together, but sometimes a plug-in PCI
card SATA or PATA controller didn't get along with the motherboard's
built-in controller, and this included the two most popular types of
PCI controllers, based on the VIA VT6421A or Silicon Image SiL3x12
chip. However I was told my problem may have been due to Windows XP
not handling interrupts well.

The controller cards selling for $2-10 on Ebay are the same as those
costing $20-30 from other dealers.

In the "good ole days", you'd fire up Device Manager, and view the
IRQ assignments. And, at the same time, review the "sharing" table
from the motherboard manual.

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2391/irqcity.gif

The example there, is my current motherboard P5E Deluxe, with
my usual junk in it.

Looking at the table on the right, a card stuffed into "PCI Slot #2",
would only share with PCI Express x1 slot #2. As long as I didn't place
a card in the PCI Express slot, I could avoid physically sharing the
interrupt line by using PCI Slot #2. So if I bought a SIL3112,
and suspected a problem caused by sharing, that's the PCI slot I'd plug
it into.

If the APIC is enabled, IRQs go above 16. And the slots tend to be
assigned above 16. If cards physically share, you cannot "move" them.
Attempts to move them, would cause physically sharing ones, to move together.

Now, what's difficult to work out in my particular table (or for
a lot of modern mixed PCIe/PCI motherboards), is whether physical
wires are involved. I thought PCI Express interrupts were done with
inband signalling, and I'm kinda surprised the table shows their
status the way it does. So I must be missing something there. On the
one hand, PCI Express is "made to look" like PCI, from a config
space point of view. But for that to happen, there would have to be
a mechanism to map from an inband signalled interrupt, to an IRQ,
and it could be that they don't really physically share, and the IRQs
could be reordered somehow.

Anyway, the value of that kind of table (the right-hand one, from the
motherboard manual), is to show it's easier to give unique interrupt
characteristics by using PCI Slot #2, than by using PCI Slot #1. So
if I was having trouble, I'd put that new card in the bottom slot.
I've never seen a bit of trouble with interrupts on this machine, and
I've never even looked at those tables since owning this thing. On past
older systems (pure PCI based, AGP video), I'd probably be spending the
odd day, trying to improve scratchy audio, and moving my PCI sound card
around would be par for the course.

There are even more useless things you can play with, such as the
interrupt reservation table in the BIOS, but I never got much of
anything out of that exercise. And can't recommend it to someone
else. It never made enough difference, to waste the time on. It
wasn't an "aha!" moment, like all the audio glitches would go away.
It was down in the "placebo effect" level of improvement :-)

There are a couple issues with SIL3112. There is the bug when
handling 1TB or larger drives. The INT 0x13 BIOS code on the
card has a bug in it, which can be fixed if you run into the
bug, by flash upgrading. A more serious issue from long ago,
was running one of those in RAID mirror mode, and finding out
when one of your disks dies, that the other one isn't a
mirror image :-( So if I was going to run one of those,
I'd want a modern non-RAID BIOS file loaded into it. And
a PMC flash chip on the card, so the flasher would work.
(The flasher apparently only worked with certain brands
of EEPROM on the SIL3112 card. Good card manufacturers would
make sure they used a chip that end-users could re-flash.)

I don't know any good stories about the VIA... Just the fun
of hunting down the right driver.

Paul