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copper shim on laptop system chip
I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 -
the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well. So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats about using a copper shim? Are they better than using thermal pads? *TimDaniels* |
#2
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copper shim on laptop system chip
"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message m... I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 - the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well. So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats about using a copper shim? Are they better than using thermal pads? *TimDaniels* |
#3
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copper shim on laptop system chip
"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message m... I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 - the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well. So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats about using a copper shim? Are they better than using thermal pads? *TimDaniels* Forget my other reply- premature mouse clicking :-) I would use something like a silicone thermal pad, along with heatsink paste: http://www.amazon.com/Gino-202mm-Silicone-Thermal-Heatsink/dp/B008X0UKV8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1377825243&sr=8-3&keywords=thermal+pad I used that on my Gateway laptop. The heatsink covers the ATI GPU, the Intel system chip (or Northbridge, whatever it is on mine), and, through the heat pipe, the CPU. Of course, I didn't use the pad on the CPU, but I used it on the other two chips, applying Radio Shack white thermal paste to the chips and the heatsink surface first. So far, it has worked fine on my laptop (KOW). I cut the two pieces to just smaller than the chips since it will spread as it's tightened down, and I didn't want the paste on the surrounding components. -- SC Tom |
#4
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copper shim on laptop system chip
Timothy Daniels wrote:
I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 - the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well. So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats about using a copper shim? Are they better than using thermal pads? *TimDaniels* Maybe the person who sold you the motherboard, also has the matching heatsink assembly for sale as well ? It's probably better to just try it with the matched heatsink assembly, then fool around with shims. Paul |
#5
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copper shim on laptop system chip
"Paul" advised: Timothy Daniels wrote: I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 - the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well. So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats about using a copper shim? Are they better than using thermal pads? *TimDaniels* Maybe the person who sold you the motherboard, also has the matching heatsink assembly for sale as well ? It's probably better to just try it with the matched heatsink assembly, then fool around with shims. Paul Yes, the matching heatsink assembly was supplied by the same eBay seller, but that assembly is the one that produces the 1.6mm gap and which, in stock form, is filled with a thermal pad, and the heatsink is pressed down on it with a spring strip and screw that is at the tip of the heatpipe. It is this clamping action that bends the heatpipe so the heatsink and the system chip surfaces are not parallel and which puts a tilting force on the heatsink for the CPU. The whole scheme is quite crude, considering the extreme precision used for the rest of the laptop, but the ease of manual assembly seems to have been the commanding goal. In laptops with discrete graphic chips, there is a 3rd heatsink for the graphic chip at the far end of the heatpipe, and as you can imagine, not all the mating surfaces are parallel. After the heatsink for the CPU is clamped down, the rest of the heatsinks need the wiggle room afforded by thermal pads, and that's why many discrete graphic chips in laptops overheat. In the case of Dell's XPS M1330 and XPS M1530 laptops, the ones with discrete nVidia chips frequently failed, and I hear that a law suit against nVidia resulted. And, since mine failed twice, I'm going with a motherboard WITHOUT the discrete graphic chip, and I'm paying attention to the cooling system. *TimDaniels* |
#6
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copper shim on laptop system chip
"SC Tom" wrote in message ... "Timothy Daniels" wrote in message m... I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 - the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well. So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats about using a copper shim? Are they better than using thermal pads? *TimDaniels* Forget my other reply- premature mouse clicking :-) I would use something like a silicone thermal pad, along with heatsink paste: http://www.amazon.com/Gino-202mm-Silicone-Thermal-Heatsink/dp/B008X0UKV8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1377825243&sr=8-3&keywords=thermal+pad "Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock." :-) I used that on my Gateway laptop. The heatsink covers the ATI GPU, the Intel system chip (or Northbridge, whatever it is on mine), and, through the heat pipe, the CPU. Of course, I didn't use the pad on the CPU, but I used it on the other two chips, applying Radio Shack white thermal paste to the chips and the heatsink surface first. So far, it has worked fine on my laptop (KOW). I cut the two pieces to just smaller than the chips since it will spread as it's tightened down, and I didn't want the paste on the surrounding components. -- SC Tom There seems to be little consensus on the use of thermal interface media. There are many admonitions on the 'Net to NOT use both together. I think that the reason is that the paste/grease, if used generously, partially dissolves the pad. Your success may have resulted from evenly spreading a thin film of thermal paste/grease on the metal surfaces - not enough to dissolve an appreciable amount of pad material, but enough to fill in the tiny air gaps. *TimDaniels* |
#7
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copper shim on laptop system chip
En el artículo , Timothy
Daniels escribió: I'm going with a motherboard WITHOUT the discrete graphic chip, so how are you going to get video out? and I'm paying attention to the cooling system. I certainly wouldn't recommend combining a thermal pad with thermal grease. The pad contains a heat transfer oil which does the job. 1.6mm seems a large gap for a TIM pad to fill. Perhaps you could polish a copper penny to a smooth bright surface on both sides and use that with a *small* amount of e.g. Arctic Silver as a shim. When tightening the screws that clamp the heatsink to the CPU, tighten them a small amount alternately so you don't exert a tilting force on the CPU die. -- (\_/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#8
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copper shim on laptop system chip
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:03:12 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
wrote: Are they better than using thermal pads? Can't stand pads, but that's me and some people are fine with them (probably best to test compare subsequent heat ranges on both if at all relevant). Find an old heat sink, copper or aluminum, if that's what you want, and cut some fins off, maybe a suitable portion, if available, closer to the exact thickness. (Hey, everybody's got an old 486 heatsink, right?) The polishing already mentioned isn't a bad idea, either, that and the eye/hand-coordination for detail when spreading around thin coats of heatsink compound (I use a razor, a small drop of compound to start and add more when needed after finding the first's initial covering limit). |
#9
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copper shim on laptop system chip
"Mike Tomlinson" inscribed:
Timothy Daniels escribió: I'm going with a motherboard WITHOUT the discrete graphic chip, so how are you going to get video out? The Intel system chip has integrated graphic processing circuitry. The Dell XPS M1330 was offered with the nVidia discrete graphics chip as an option, so 2 motherboards were designed and made for the laptop. The integrated graphics worked fine, the overheating nVidia chip resulted in a law suit by OEMs against nVidia. and I'm paying attention to the cooling system. I certainly wouldn't recommend combining a thermal pad with thermal grease. The pad contains a heat transfer oil which does the job. 1.6mm seems a large gap for a TIM pad to fill. Perhaps you could polish a copper penny to a smooth bright surface on both sides and use that with a *small* amount of e.g. Arctic Silver as a shim. I now have on order from a company in Hong Kong (with distribution in New York City) a set of 6 copper shims of various thicknesses. I also now have on order from an eBay store a Dell kit containing 4 thermal pads of thickness 0.20mm made by Loctite (their "Powerstrate Xtreme" product). I plan to use a shim to bridge most of the gap, and to use the pad to accommodate the non-parallelism of the surfaces. If the shim's surface looks flat, I'll put thermal paste between the chip and the shim, and MAYBE a very thin layer between the pad the the heatsink. It's interesting to see that virtually all copper shim suppliers have roots in China. It seems to be a cottage industry there, probably coming from copper recovered from electronic parts recycling. I don't have much hope for the shims to have flat polished surfaces, and from photos I've seen, some appear to have been flattened with a hammer. When tightening the screws that clamp the heatsink to the CPU, tighten them a small amount alternately so you don't exert a tilting force on the CPU die. I plan to use a thin layer of thermal paste between the CPU and its heatsink and to tighten it down in the traditional way, and then to tighten down the heatsink against the Intel system chip using a shim and pad between the 2 surfaces. I haven't found any reports on the 'Net regarding the success of this setup, so this will be an experiment. Perhaps unfortunately, there haven't been any reports of the system chip overheating, so this may also be a waste of time. If the graphics performance is too slow for YouTube videos, though, I may try the same technique with my old motherboard - the one with the nVidia chip - after I've "re-flowed" the chip and board in the kitchen oven. *TimDaniels* |
#10
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copper shim on laptop system chip
"Flasherly" wrote in message ... On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:03:12 -0700, "Timothy Daniels" wrote: Are they better than using thermal pads? Can't stand pads, but that's me and some people are fine with them (probably best to test compare subsequent heat ranges on both if at all relevant). Find an old heat sink, copper or aluminum, if that's what you want, and cut some fins off, maybe a suitable portion, if available, closer to the exact thickness. (Hey, everybody's got an old 486 heatsink, right?) The polishing already mentioned isn't a bad idea, either, that and the eye/hand-coordination for detail when spreading around thin coats of heatsink compound (I use a razor, a small drop of compound to start and add more when needed after finding the first's initial covering limit). Remember that this is a laptop, and parts are tiny. Heatsinks also have to be soldered to the heatpipe. *TimDaniels* |
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