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copper shim on laptop system chip



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 29th 13, 10:03 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Timothy Daniels[_4_]
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Posts: 208
Default copper shim on laptop system chip

I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 -
the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics
chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between
the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached
to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap
down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU
heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too
large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well.
So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm
and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats
about using a copper shim? Are they better than using
thermal pads?

*TimDaniels*
  #2  
Old August 30th 13, 02:15 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
SC Tom
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Posts: 441
Default copper shim on laptop system chip



"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
m...
I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 -
the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics
chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between
the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached
to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap
down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU
heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too
large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well.
So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm
and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats
about using a copper shim? Are they better than using
thermal pads?

*TimDaniels*


  #3  
Old August 30th 13, 02:24 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
SC Tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 441
Default copper shim on laptop system chip



"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
m...
I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 -
the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics
chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between
the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached
to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap
down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU
heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too
large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well.
So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm
and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats
about using a copper shim? Are they better than using
thermal pads?

*TimDaniels*


Forget my other reply- premature mouse clicking :-)

I would use something like a silicone thermal pad, along with heatsink
paste:
http://www.amazon.com/Gino-202mm-Silicone-Thermal-Heatsink/dp/B008X0UKV8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1377825243&sr=8-3&keywords=thermal+pad

I used that on my Gateway laptop. The heatsink covers the ATI GPU, the Intel
system chip (or Northbridge, whatever it is on mine), and, through the heat
pipe, the CPU. Of course, I didn't use the pad on the CPU, but I used it on
the other two chips, applying Radio Shack white thermal paste to the chips
and the heatsink surface first. So far, it has worked fine on my laptop
(KOW).

I cut the two pieces to just smaller than the chips since it will spread as
it's tightened down, and I didn't want the paste on the surrounding
components.
--
SC Tom


  #4  
Old August 30th 13, 02:33 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default copper shim on laptop system chip

Timothy Daniels wrote:
I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 -
the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics
chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between
the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached
to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap
down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU
heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too
large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well.
So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm
and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats
about using a copper shim? Are they better than using
thermal pads?

*TimDaniels*


Maybe the person who sold you the motherboard,
also has the matching heatsink assembly for sale
as well ? It's probably better to just try it with
the matched heatsink assembly, then fool around with
shims.

Paul
  #5  
Old August 30th 13, 03:50 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Timothy Daniels[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default copper shim on laptop system chip


"Paul" advised:
Timothy Daniels wrote:
I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 -
the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics
chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between
the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached
to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap
down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU
heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too
large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well.
So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm
and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats
about using a copper shim? Are they better than using
thermal pads?

*TimDaniels*


Maybe the person who sold you the motherboard,
also has the matching heatsink assembly for sale
as well ? It's probably better to just try it with
the matched heatsink assembly, then fool around with
shims.

Paul


Yes, the matching heatsink assembly was supplied
by the same eBay seller, but that assembly is the one
that produces the 1.6mm gap and which, in stock
form, is filled with a thermal pad, and the heatsink
is pressed down on it with a spring strip and screw
that is at the tip of the heatpipe. It is this clamping
action that bends the heatpipe so the heatsink and
the system chip surfaces are not parallel and which
puts a tilting force on the heatsink for the CPU.
The whole scheme is quite crude, considering the
extreme precision used for the rest of the laptop,
but the ease of manual assembly seems to have
been the commanding goal. In laptops with discrete
graphic chips, there is a 3rd heatsink for the graphic
chip at the far end of the heatpipe, and as you can
imagine, not all the mating surfaces are parallel.
After the heatsink for the CPU is clamped down, the
rest of the heatsinks need the wiggle room afforded
by thermal pads, and that's why many discrete graphic
chips in laptops overheat. In the case of Dell's XPS M1330
and XPS M1530 laptops, the ones with discrete nVidia
chips frequently failed, and I hear that a law suit against
nVidia resulted. And, since mine failed twice, I'm going
with a motherboard WITHOUT the discrete graphic chip,
and I'm paying attention to the cooling system.

*TimDaniels*
  #6  
Old August 30th 13, 04:01 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Timothy Daniels[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default copper shim on laptop system chip


"SC Tom" wrote in message ...


"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
m...
I'm putting a different motherboard in my XPS M1330 -
the motherboard WITHOUT the discrete nVidia graphics
chip. I find that there is about a 1.6mm gap between
the Intel system chip and the heat sink that is attached
to the copper heat pipe. I don't want to tighten the gap
down because that would put a tipping force on the CPU
heat sink junction, but 1.6mm seems like it would be too
large a gap for a thermal pad to conduct heat away well.
So I'm looking into using a copper shim - 1.5cm x 1.5cm
and either 1.5mm or 1.2mm thick. Are there any caveats
about using a copper shim? Are they better than using
thermal pads?

*TimDaniels*


Forget my other reply- premature mouse clicking :-)

I would use something like a silicone thermal pad, along with heatsink paste:
http://www.amazon.com/Gino-202mm-Silicone-Thermal-Heatsink/dp/B008X0UKV8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1377825243&sr=8-3&keywords=thermal+pad



"Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock."
:-)

I used that on my Gateway laptop. The heatsink covers the ATI GPU, the Intel system chip (or
Northbridge, whatever it is on mine), and, through the heat pipe, the CPU. Of course, I didn't use
the pad on the CPU, but I used it on the other two chips, applying Radio Shack white thermal paste
to the chips and the heatsink surface first. So far, it has worked fine on my laptop (KOW).

I cut the two pieces to just smaller than the chips since it will spread as it's tightened down,
and I didn't want the paste on the surrounding components.
--
SC Tom


There seems to be little consensus on the use of thermal interface media.
There are many admonitions on the 'Net to NOT use both together. I think
that the reason is that the paste/grease, if used generously, partially dissolves
the pad. Your success may have resulted from evenly spreading a thin film
of thermal paste/grease on the metal surfaces - not enough to dissolve an
appreciable amount of pad material, but enough to fill in the tiny air gaps.

*TimDaniels*





  #7  
Old August 30th 13, 09:01 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Mike Tomlinson
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Posts: 431
Default copper shim on laptop system chip

En el artículo , Timothy
Daniels escribió:

I'm going
with a motherboard WITHOUT the discrete graphic chip,


so how are you going to get video out?

and I'm paying attention to the cooling system.


I certainly wouldn't recommend combining a thermal pad with thermal
grease. The pad contains a heat transfer oil which does the job.

1.6mm seems a large gap for a TIM pad to fill. Perhaps you could polish
a copper penny to a smooth bright surface on both sides and use that
with a *small* amount of e.g. Arctic Silver as a shim.

When tightening the screws that clamp the heatsink to the CPU, tighten
them a small amount alternately so you don't exert a tilting force on
the CPU die.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
  #8  
Old August 30th 13, 10:47 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default copper shim on laptop system chip

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:03:12 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
wrote:

Are they better than using
thermal pads?


Can't stand pads, but that's me and some people are fine with them
(probably best to test compare subsequent heat ranges on both if at
all relevant). Find an old heat sink, copper or aluminum, if that's
what you want, and cut some fins off, maybe a suitable portion, if
available, closer to the exact thickness. (Hey, everybody's got an
old 486 heatsink, right?) The polishing already mentioned isn't a bad
idea, either, that and the eye/hand-coordination for detail when
spreading around thin coats of heatsink compound (I use a razor, a
small drop of compound to start and add more when needed after finding
the first's initial covering limit).
  #9  
Old August 30th 13, 06:56 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Timothy Daniels[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default copper shim on laptop system chip

"Mike Tomlinson" inscribed:
Timothy Daniels escribió:

I'm going with a motherboard WITHOUT the
discrete graphic chip,


so how are you going to get video out?



The Intel system chip has integrated graphic
processing circuitry. The Dell XPS M1330 was
offered with the nVidia discrete graphics chip as
an option, so 2 motherboards were designed
and made for the laptop. The integrated graphics
worked fine, the overheating nVidia chip resulted
in a law suit by OEMs against nVidia.


and I'm paying attention to the cooling system.


I certainly wouldn't recommend combining a thermal pad with thermal
grease. The pad contains a heat transfer oil which does the job.

1.6mm seems a large gap for a TIM pad to fill. Perhaps you could polish
a copper penny to a smooth bright surface on both sides and use that
with a *small* amount of e.g. Arctic Silver as a shim.



I now have on order from a company in Hong Kong
(with distribution in New York City) a set of 6 copper
shims of various thicknesses. I also now have on order
from an eBay store a Dell kit containing 4 thermal pads
of thickness 0.20mm made by Loctite (their "Powerstrate
Xtreme" product). I plan to use a shim to bridge most
of the gap, and to use the pad to accommodate the
non-parallelism of the surfaces. If the shim's surface
looks flat, I'll put thermal paste between the chip and
the shim, and MAYBE a very thin layer between the
pad the the heatsink.

It's interesting to see that virtually all copper shim
suppliers have roots in China. It seems to be a cottage
industry there, probably coming from copper recovered
from electronic parts recycling. I don't have much hope
for the shims to have flat polished surfaces, and from
photos I've seen, some appear to have been flattened
with a hammer.


When tightening the screws that clamp the heatsink to the CPU, tighten
them a small amount alternately so you don't exert a tilting force on
the CPU die.



I plan to use a thin layer of thermal paste between the CPU
and its heatsink and to tighten it down in the traditional way,
and then to tighten down the heatsink against the Intel system chip
using a shim and pad between the 2 surfaces. I haven't found
any reports on the 'Net regarding the success of this setup, so
this will be an experiment. Perhaps unfortunately, there haven't
been any reports of the system chip overheating, so this may
also be a waste of time. If the graphics performance is too slow
for YouTube videos, though, I may try the same technique with
my old motherboard - the one with the nVidia chip - after I've
"re-flowed" the chip and board in the kitchen oven.

*TimDaniels*

  #10  
Old August 30th 13, 06:59 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Timothy Daniels[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default copper shim on laptop system chip


"Flasherly" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:03:12 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
wrote:

Are they better than using
thermal pads?


Can't stand pads, but that's me and some people are fine with them
(probably best to test compare subsequent heat ranges on both if at
all relevant). Find an old heat sink, copper or aluminum, if that's
what you want, and cut some fins off, maybe a suitable portion, if
available, closer to the exact thickness. (Hey, everybody's got an
old 486 heatsink, right?) The polishing already mentioned isn't a bad
idea, either, that and the eye/hand-coordination for detail when
spreading around thin coats of heatsink compound (I use a razor, a
small drop of compound to start and add more when needed after finding
the first's initial covering limit).



Remember that this is a laptop, and parts are tiny.
Heatsinks also have to be soldered to the heatpipe.

*TimDaniels*

 




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