Now let's fix the USB card!

VanguardLH wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:

pheasant16 wrote:

Having to physically reinsert the card into the slot to get it found is
not working out. However there isn't a dust bunny to be found in the
computer any longer.
why not go into Device Manager (devmgmt.msc) and disable then reenable
the USB card?

Windows XP SP3. 2 empty PCI slots. MSI NF980-G65 motherboard

Put the card in a slot, boot machine, asks for driver. Put enclosed CD
in, run setup finds card, shows up in device manager and the USB3 card
works perfectly.
Windows XP does not have included support for USB3. That's why the
driver is required. If the driver is not loading properly upon boot of
Windows XP, maybe you should check if there is a firmware update for the
PCI USB3 card.

Alternatively, you can define a batch (.bat) file that enables and
enables a device. Get devcon.exe from Microsoft (it's the non-GUI
version of Device Manager) and use it to disable that device and then
enable it. Put the .bat file in your Startup group or add as a
scheduled event in Task Scheduler to run on login.

OK. Look in device manager and no USB3 card to be found. Put hd back
on old usb port, it's back.
The card is not listed as a controller or root hub at all? Then I'd
check for a firmware update. For example, StarTech has the PCI (not
PCI-e but PCI) USB3 card and there is a firmware update for it. You
never mentioned whose USB3 PCI card you have.

Opened up box, put card in same slot, went through above, works
perfectly until next cold boot.
You should not be plugging in daughtercards while there is power to the
slot. Slot cards are not hot-pluggable devices. Could fry them.

Defective slot? Let's try the other slot. Same behavior. Works great
until power down and cold boot next morning.
Your BIOS isn't recognizing the card and why the driver is needed.
Seems the problem is the driver isn't getting loaded when Windows loads.

Also cleaned the registry after each uninstall of the driver to be sure
it was reinstalling cleanly.

Reminds me of a 5 year old at a birthday party. Open present, play for
a couple minutes then move on and forget about it.
Some PCI USB3 cards (e.g., the StarTech example) have a jumper to change
the bus frequency between 33 and 66 Mhz. 66 Mhz should only be used if
the slot is a PCI-X slot (has 2 keys in the slot so the card must have 2
slots to accommodate the keys in the slot). The StarTech card comes
pre-configured with the jumper on which means the card uses 33MHz. Only
if plugged into a 66 MHz slot should the card's jumper be removed (or
hung from a single pin for storage) to auto-negotiate up to 66 MHz. No
idea what motherboard you have (not mentioned) to know if it has only
PCI slots or PCI-X slots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X

Even if your mobo has no PCI-X slots, check the BIOS does not have a 66
MHz bus speed setting and it is configured for that. Non-PCI-X cards
would also have problems if they were given 66 Mhz clock but you didn't
mention if there are any other PCI cards in your mobo. When I first got
a BIOS with the 66 MHz setting, I figured to use it to make the cards
operate faster. Nope, the cards weren't fast enough. Had to use the
standard 33 Mhz bus clock speed.

Since no idea what mobo you have, it is possible it could have PCI 1.0,
PCI 2.0, or PCI 2.1 slots. Specs on the mobo will tell you which type
of PCI slots it has. You need PCI 2.1 to have 66 Mhz support.

Details are needed:
- Brand and model of motherboard.
- Brand and model of PCI USB3 card.

With that info, you should be able to tell if the card should use a 33
or 66 Mhz clock. If the card doesn't have a jumper or auto-negotiate
clock speed then it should be only a 33 Mhz card and the BIOS shouldn't
be forcing a 66 Mhz clock.

Oops, missed you said "MSI NF980-G65 motherboard".

http://s.kaskus.id/images/2014/04/22...0422025909.JPG

Don't see any PCI-X (or PCI-64) slots on that mobo. Just PCI (just one
key in slot). So check the BIOS for bus clock setting and check if
there is a jumper on the USB3 card for bus speed.

The first and third slots are PCIe-1 slots.

Bought at Best Buy Insignia is brand.

Will open the case and reinsert the card so it is found on boot, then
try to update the driver. I seem to remember the driver was written in
2012 when looking in device manager once before when it was recognized.

Why does it find it when inserted the first time in the motherboard, but
once the driver is loaded it won't find on subsequent cold boot?

Will also look for a jumper for the clock speed.

Referring to the picture you sent, there is a USB card in the E2 slot,
not sure if it's v 1 or 2, was put in when I put the box together maybe
7-9 years ago. Think the board was USB2 for onboard slots.

The help that posters are given at least in part corresponds
to the clearness of their request for help. Yes, I would call
it an "expansion card" or an "add-in card". Just typing a
bunch of words does not mean others will understand what you
have to say. And No, the term "card" is not self-explanatory.
Otherwise an SD card would be thought of as something plugged
into an expansion slot on the motherboard.

--
pheasant16 kiavan02 yahoo.com wrote:

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From: pheasant16 kiavan02 yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Now let's fix the USB card!
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 06:51:13 -0500
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John Doe wrote:
pheasant16 kiavan02 yahoo.com wrote:

Having to physically reinsert the card into the slot to get
it found is not working out. However there isn't a dust
bunny to be found in the computer any longer.

Windows XP SP3. 2 empty PCI slots. MSI NF980-G65
motherboard

You go on and on talking about a "USB card". You need to define
what that is. Probably a USB flash drive or thumb drive, but it
could be other things.


??? What do you call expansion cards daughtercards that are inserted
into the motherboard? Thought the term card was self explanatory. Flash
and thumb drives are inserted into the slots on the card. Sorry if my
vernacular isn't up to your standards. Now that that's clear how
about some help?

pheasant16 wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote:

The thing is, the PCI Express USB3 cards run faster in a Rev.2 slot.

The OP said he used a PCI slot for the card, not a PCI-e slot. Will
have to wait for clarification from the OP. I know of one PCI (not
PCI-e) USB3 card. There might be other PCI USB3 cards but I know of the
one from StarTech. Users of that card have complained about the card
not found on boot. StarTech came out with a firmware update to help but
they're still working with Gigabyte for a resolution (apparently a BIOS
problem on the Gigabyte mobos).

The OP never mentioned what USB3 card he has (brand and model) to be
sure if it uses a PCI or PCI-e slot. That mobo has both PCI and PCI-e
slots. Only know, so far, the OP said "PCI", not "PCI-e".

https://www.cnet.com/products/msi-nf...-series/specs/


Even if the OP has a PCI-e card, that mobo doesn't have version 2.1
PCI-e slots, just 2.0.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...CI_Express_2.1
"However, the speed is the same as PCI Express 2.0."

So how would a 2.1 PCI-e slot be faster than a 2.0 PCI-e slot?

It's a PCI express slot.

Bought the card at Best Buy, it's an Insignia

It probably has a Renesas chip on it. The driver
should work on that (with Win7 it needs the manufacturer
to provide a driver, while later OSes the driver would
be provided by Microsoft). I can find reports though, of
the driver installer screwing up. I have a Renesas here, in
this machine, and didn't have a problem with it.

Your chipset looks like this. The MSI motherboard manual
admits to the MCP82 and the NF200. Since I couldn't find
a nice 980a chipset diagram, I just went for the individual
components and made a diagram from that. I've ignored the
GPU inside the MCP82, as it's "mostly irrelevant" and the
GPU only works in Hybrid SLI (meaning it must be paired
with a cheap NVidia video card, that sort of idea).

http://assets.vr-zone.net/6755/MCP82_2.gif

DDR3 slots ------ CPU (c.f. Phenom II AM3)
|
GbE ----- | Hypertransport
\ |
+----------- MCP82 ----- NF200 ------- x16 PCI Express Rev2
| | x16 ------- x8 PCI Express Rev2
PCI | ------- x8 PCI Express Rev2
(3) x1 Rev2
PCI Express

It's a 35 lane setup, with a lot less actual bandwidth
feeding those lanes (which doesn't matter).

Anyway, one message to take away from that diagram, is all
the lanes are Revision 2.

You can still try moving the USB3 card to a video
card slot, and try your luck there.

If the driver was throwing errors, and you had error
numbers, there might be more to work on.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/...gravation.html

Paul

pheasant16 wrote:

The first and third slots are PCIe-1 slots.

Bought at Best Buy Insignia is brand.

Insiginia (and Dynex) are Best Buy brands. They contract with Taiwanese
manufacturers to produce under those brand names.

Which card did you get?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia...?skuId=5621006

That one uses a PCI-e x1 slot. From the pic, there are 2 of those on
the mobo. Alas, often the video card overlaps one of them making it
useless. This card has a power connector (the type used for floppy
drive power) so you can connect power to the card. That allows
high-power support at the external USB3 ports. There are no jumpers on
this card because it is a PCI-e card (not PCI).

Will open the case and reinsert the card so it is found on boot, then
try to update the driver. I seem to remember the driver was written in
2012 when looking in device manager once before when it was recognized.

When powered down and you remove and reinsert the card, do not cinch
down the card with the retaining screw. Make sure the card is full
seated along the entire edge of the connector edge and power up without
the card screwed down. I've seen where the card blank is offset so the
card gets lifted out of the slot when you screw down the card. You have
to bend the blank, if that works, so screwing it down doesn't lift the
card partially out of the slot. Also make sure the tang of the card
(the bottom end) is sliding into an opening in the case. If not, the
card won't fully seat.

https://www.insigniaproducts.com/pdp...621006#support

According to the manual there, page 7, the card should show up in Device
Manager as "Renesas Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller" and "Renesas
Electronics USB 3.0 Root Hub". Windows 7 doesn't have support for USB3
and why you have to install drivers for USB3 cards.

Have you yet tried booting Windows into its safe mode to make sure there
aren't startup programs interferring with the card's driver and its
detection of the USB3 card?

Why does it find it when inserted the first time in the motherboard, but
once the driver is loaded it won't find on subsequent cold boot?

Could be a power-on reset problem. When the computer is cold booted,
the CPU issues a reset signal to all devices. This ensures they start
up in a known state. If the device ignores or misses the reset, its
state is unknown on power up. That's why I mention looking for a
firmware update to see if there is one.

Will also look for a jumper for the clock speed.

Won't be one on a PCI-e card. You said PCI in your starter post and
that type of card might have a clock select jumper.

Referring to the picture you sent, there is a USB card in the E2 slot,
not sure if it's v 1 or 2, was put in when I put the box together maybe
7-9 years ago. Think the board was USB2 for onboard slots.

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/NF980G65.html

The specifications for that motherboard say that it comes with USB2
controllers. That is, there are four onboard USB2 headers and that is
to where the USB2 ports on the case should be going. I thought USB
header provided for 2 USB ports but their specs say these 4 USB2 headers
on the mobo will support 6 USB2 ports (instead of 8). From the image at
http://www.frontx.com/cpx108_2p3.gif, USB1 is for one USB port and USB2
is for the other USB port. If the card in the E2 slot has connectors on
its card blank, you should be able to determine what type of card it is.
It's possible the onboard USB controller(s) went bad or someone wanted
more than the 8 USB2 ports (2 rear + 6 max per spec from mobo headers).
That's what happened to me. There were 4 rear USB2 ports and 4 front
USB ports but I wanted more so I added a PCI USB2 card to give me 4 more
USB2 ports.

This mobo is so old that it has an onboard IDE port. From what I've
read about the StarTech USB3 PCI (not PCI-e) card, it has problems with
old BIOSes. Could be your mobo is just too old to support a USB3 card.

VanguardLH wrote:
pheasant16 wrote:

The first and third slots are PCIe-1 slots.

Bought at Best Buy Insignia is brand.

Insiginia (and Dynex) are Best Buy brands. They contract with Taiwanese
manufacturers to produce under those brand names.

Which card did you get?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia...?skuId=5621006

That one uses a PCI-e x1 slot. From the pic, there are 2 of those on
the mobo. Alas, often the video card overlaps one of them making it
useless. This card has a power connector (the type used for floppy
drive power) so you can connect power to the card. That allows
high-power support at the external USB3 ports. There are no jumpers on
this card because it is a PCI-e card (not PCI).

Will open the case and reinsert the card so it is found on boot, then
try to update the driver. I seem to remember the driver was written in
2012 when looking in device manager once before when it was recognized.

When powered down and you remove and reinsert the card, do not cinch
down the card with the retaining screw. Make sure the card is full
seated along the entire edge of the connector edge and power up without
the card screwed down. I've seen where the card blank is offset so the
card gets lifted out of the slot when you screw down the card. You have
to bend the blank, if that works, so screwing it down doesn't lift the
card partially out of the slot. Also make sure the tang of the card
(the bottom end) is sliding into an opening in the case. If not, the
card won't fully seat.

https://www.insigniaproducts.com/pdp...621006#support

According to the manual there, page 7, the card should show up in Device
Manager as "Renesas Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller" and "Renesas
Electronics USB 3.0 Root Hub". Windows 7 doesn't have support for USB3
and why you have to install drivers for USB3 cards.

Have you yet tried booting Windows into its safe mode to make sure there
aren't startup programs interferring with the card's driver and its
detection of the USB3 card?

Why does it find it when inserted the first time in the motherboard, but
once the driver is loaded it won't find on subsequent cold boot?

Could be a power-on reset problem. When the computer is cold booted,
the CPU issues a reset signal to all devices. This ensures they start
up in a known state. If the device ignores or misses the reset, its
state is unknown on power up. That's why I mention looking for a
firmware update to see if there is one.

Will also look for a jumper for the clock speed.

Won't be one on a PCI-e card. You said PCI in your starter post and
that type of card might have a clock select jumper.

Referring to the picture you sent, there is a USB card in the E2 slot,
not sure if it's v 1 or 2, was put in when I put the box together maybe
7-9 years ago. Think the board was USB2 for onboard slots.

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/NF980G65.html

The specifications for that motherboard say that it comes with USB2
controllers. That is, there are four onboard USB2 headers and that is
to where the USB2 ports on the case should be going. I thought USB
header provided for 2 USB ports but their specs say these 4 USB2 headers
on the mobo will support 6 USB2 ports (instead of 8). From the image at
http://www.frontx.com/cpx108_2p3.gif, USB1 is for one USB port and USB2
is for the other USB port. If the card in the E2 slot has connectors on
its card blank, you should be able to determine what type of card it is.
It's possible the onboard USB controller(s) went bad or someone wanted
more than the 8 USB2 ports (2 rear + 6 max per spec from mobo headers).
That's what happened to me. There were 4 rear USB2 ports and 4 front
USB ports but I wanted more so I added a PCI USB2 card to give me 4 more
USB2 ports.

This mobo is so old that it has an onboard IDE port. From what I've
read about the StarTech USB3 PCI (not PCI-e) card, it has problems with
old BIOSes. Could be your mobo is just too old to support a USB3 card.

I think your last statement about sums it up. LOL!!

It's up and running now, shows up in device manager as renesas root hub
and controller just as you mentioned above. Searched for an updated
driver. The version now is 3.0.x.x. All the ones I find in the
internet are 2.0.x.x. There is a v 4 that states is specific for intel
board on Intel's website.

The link on Insignia's website seems to be garbage. Not readable when I
save it and tell the update to look at it.
- https://files.bbystatic.com/BySrGBcn...SbOcojow%3D%3D

Paul had an idea to try some of the video card slots, but think I'll
just use a USB hub and forget about trying to get the v3 speeds.

I will exchange the card just to see if it could be the card.

Thanks for your efforts. Haven't had this much fun since the box I put
together before this one when you still had to hunt for correct drivers.
Let see... believe that was a Pentium II.

Have a wonderful 4th.

Mark

Paul wrote:
pheasant16 wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote:

The thing is, the PCI Express USB3 cards run faster in a Rev.2 slot.

The OP said he used a PCI slot for the card, not a PCI-e slot. Will
have to wait for clarification from the OP. I know of one PCI (not
PCI-e) USB3 card. There might be other PCI USB3 cards but I know of the
one from StarTech. Users of that card have complained about the card
not found on boot. StarTech came out with a firmware update to help but
they're still working with Gigabyte for a resolution (apparently a BIOS
problem on the Gigabyte mobos).

The OP never mentioned what USB3 card he has (brand and model) to be
sure if it uses a PCI or PCI-e slot. That mobo has both PCI and PCI-e
slots. Only know, so far, the OP said "PCI", not "PCI-e".

https://www.cnet.com/products/msi-nf...-series/specs/


Even if the OP has a PCI-e card, that mobo doesn't have version 2.1
PCI-e slots, just 2.0.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...CI_Express_2.1
"However, the speed is the same as PCI Express 2.0."

So how would a 2.1 PCI-e slot be faster than a 2.0 PCI-e slot?

It's a PCI express slot.

Bought the card at Best Buy, it's an Insignia

It probably has a Renesas chip on it. The driver
should work on that (with Win7 it needs the manufacturer
to provide a driver, while later OSes the driver would
be provided by Microsoft). I can find reports though, of
the driver installer screwing up. I have a Renesas here, in
this machine, and didn't have a problem with it.

Your chipset looks like this. The MSI motherboard manual
admits to the MCP82 and the NF200. Since I couldn't find
a nice 980a chipset diagram, I just went for the individual
components and made a diagram from that. I've ignored the
GPU inside the MCP82, as it's "mostly irrelevant" and the
GPU only works in Hybrid SLI (meaning it must be paired
with a cheap NVidia video card, that sort of idea).

http://assets.vr-zone.net/6755/MCP82_2.gif

DDR3 slots ------ CPU (c.f. Phenom II AM3)
|
GbE ----- | Hypertransport
\ |
+----------- MCP82 ----- NF200 ------- x16 PCI Express Rev2
| | x16 ------- x8 PCI Express Rev2
PCI | ------- x8 PCI Express Rev2
(3) x1 Rev2
PCI Express

It's a 35 lane setup, with a lot less actual bandwidth
feeding those lanes (which doesn't matter).

Anyway, one message to take away from that diagram, is all
the lanes are Revision 2.

You can still try moving the USB3 card to a video
card slot, and try your luck there.

If the driver was throwing errors, and you had error
numbers, there might be more to work on.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/...gravation.html


Paul

No error messages Paul. When first inserted it finds the driver and
works perfectly until power turned off. When turned on it's just not
there any longer.

I think I'm going to just return the card to see if that could be the
issue. If not, like I mentioned below, will just use a USB hub and
forget about trying to get the v3 speed. I'm old... time to learn patience.

Thank you. You are truly an asset to this forum.

pheasant16 wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Could be your mobo is just too old to support a USB3 card.

I think your last statement about sums it up. LOL!!

That's why I've passed on getting a PCI (not PCI-e) USB3 card in my old
box. It's a salvaged old Acer (Intel Core 2 Quad, 8GB RAM): had to
replace a defective PSU, defective video card, defective HDD, and use
software to compensate for the BIOS not controlling the CPU fan speed.
Its BIOS is old and has very few user-configurable settings (it's a
dummy's BIOS). I suspect the StarTech PCI USB3 card will exhibit the
same problems other users have reported (even with the firmware update
to the card, if not already applied): no detection of the card on cold
boot.

I'm not going to try with my old BIOS. Your mobo has IDE headers on the
mobo so it's likely an even older or as-old BIOS for you. When I went
to Newegg to look at reviews on your mobo, they went back to 2009.
That's the same age for my old Acer mobo (well, for the whole box).
Acer stopped providing BIOS updates many years ago. With a circa 2009
mobo, it's likely MSI doesn't have BIOS updates for as long. From what
I saw at MSI's site, the last BIOS update is dated back to 2010.

Paul had an idea to try some of the video card slots, but think I'll
just use a USB hub and forget about trying to get the v3 speeds.

Would be something of a waste of a good full-length PCI-e x16 slot to
use the PCI-e x1 card.

I will exchange the card just to see if it could be the card.

A defective card is a possibility.