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#11
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BWGames wrote: On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, in uk.comp.vendors, Johannes H Andersen wrote: Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in the first place. Well, I use my TV card for its composite in input from camcorder, not aerial input and the TV viewing software with it is rubbish. So, no, its not the only use for it. Yes, that may be OK without licence. The situation is basically the same as for people using an un-tuned TV set for the same purpose. However, the more it looks like a TV receiver, the more you will have to argue your case. Whatever you do, the seller of the TV card still has to record your details or get fined. |
#12
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote: .... Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in the first place. Umm, to connect a security camera to? -- Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies. Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk regards. Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk) |
#13
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote: Craven Birds wrote: "Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message ... Craven Birds wrote: "Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message ... Craven Birds wrote: "Fishman" wrote in message ... Did you know that it is illegal for a dealer to supply a TV card and not record the buyers name and address and then pass this information on to the TV Licencing authority within 28 days? Similiar applies if as a dealer, you sell a PC with a TV card installed - new or secondhand. Information extracted from: http://www.tv-l.co.uk/index_frameset.html Section :- TV Dealer Information So, if say you bought a TV card from PC World, paid cash and they did not request your details, an offence has been commited. Before you say it - Another useless fact to fill up the grey matter with! Absolute rubbish! There is no obligation, because whilst not in a computer it cannot receive a TV signal! Quote: "If you use or install television receiving equipment to receive or record television programme services you are required by law to have a valid TV Licence." Then look at the site again under TV DEALER INFORMATION http://www.tv-l.co.uk/index_frameset.html "Don't forget this also includes" "o Computers fitted with electronic broadcast cards (TV Cards)." "o TV Cards themselves" "o Set-top boxes" Don't need to! A solicitor would make mince meat of them in court;-) The bit of metal alone cannot recieve a TV signal and software is also required for it to function. So therefore, I'd dispute the fact that TV Cards require a licence. -- You don't understand that there are two rules: One for people installing and using TV receiving equipment and another separate rule for TV dealers who sell said equipment to people installing and... etc. Yes I do! The Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 (as amended) requires any dealer who sells or rents TV receiving equipment (whether the equipment is new or second-hand) to notify TV Licensing within 28 days of each transaction, giving full details of the buyer or renter. Read the above. That does not state anything about a computer ONLY dealer having to inform the licencing authorities at all! I noticed the original poster omitted a few words! We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem. Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in the first place. From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register too. Of course to get around it you sell it as a network adapter :-) The idea was that they could use broadband adapters to pick up digital TV. Sometimes the licencing company really can come across as odd. Of course if a computer only dealer sells equipemnt that is capable of receiving TC signals will still have to notigy the TV licencing authority. Its a bit like Argos saying we don't have to notify the authroity becuase they only sell Teenage Mutant Nija Turtle action figures even though they sell TVs. |
#14
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On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:54:06 -0000, "tHatDudeUK"
wrote: "Fishman" wrote in message ... Did you know that it is illegal for a dealer to supply a TV card and not record the buyers name and address and then pass this information on to the TV Licencing authority within 28 days? Give fake details or if mail order get it sent to a mates house who has a tv license ;-) Our local Tescos didn't bother when I bought my TV. Then again I wish I hadn't of bothered with a Wharfdale TV, its horrid. |
#15
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Bagpuss wrote: On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen wrote: Craven Birds wrote: "Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message ... Craven Birds wrote: "Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message ... Craven Birds wrote: "Fishman" wrote in message ... Did you know that it is illegal for a dealer to supply a TV card and not record the buyers name and address and then pass this information on to the TV Licencing authority within 28 days? Similiar applies if as a dealer, you sell a PC with a TV card installed - new or secondhand. Information extracted from: http://www.tv-l.co.uk/index_frameset.html Section :- TV Dealer Information So, if say you bought a TV card from PC World, paid cash and they did not request your details, an offence has been commited. Before you say it - Another useless fact to fill up the grey matter with! Absolute rubbish! There is no obligation, because whilst not in a computer it cannot receive a TV signal! Quote: "If you use or install television receiving equipment to receive or record television programme services you are required by law to have a valid TV Licence." Then look at the site again under TV DEALER INFORMATION http://www.tv-l.co.uk/index_frameset.html "Don't forget this also includes" "o Computers fitted with electronic broadcast cards (TV Cards)." "o TV Cards themselves" "o Set-top boxes" Don't need to! A solicitor would make mince meat of them in court;-) The bit of metal alone cannot recieve a TV signal and software is also required for it to function. So therefore, I'd dispute the fact that TV Cards require a licence. -- You don't understand that there are two rules: One for people installing and using TV receiving equipment and another separate rule for TV dealers who sell said equipment to people installing and... etc. Yes I do! The Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 (as amended) requires any dealer who sells or rents TV receiving equipment (whether the equipment is new or second-hand) to notify TV Licensing within 28 days of each transaction, giving full details of the buyer or renter. Read the above. That does not state anything about a computer ONLY dealer having to inform the licencing authorities at all! I noticed the original poster omitted a few words! We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem. Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in the first place. From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register too. Yes, this seems completely out of order to me. How far down that road do you go? Someone buying electronic components: transistors, resistors and capacitors could in principle build a TV tuner, so are these components also TV receiving equipment? Of course not. The difference is that the TV card comes complete with instructions to install and receive TV channels. The broadband adapter does not. In any case, the registering by the dealer does not necessarily mean that a TV license is required, but it is part of their intimidation. |
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:08:16 +0000, Mike Scott
k wrote: On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen wrote: ... Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in the first place. Umm, to connect a security camera to? But do you need a TV decoder to do this? The problem is the decoder bit to pick up and decode the TV signals. Its OK to have a monitor feed ro the like which is used for closed circuit cameras. In that case you should be using a video capture card not a TV decoder if you don't want them at the door. Even then they will still insist on harrasing you. They seem at times to go on the "you don't have a licenence then you must be watching TV illegally". A friend of mine got taken to court for not having a TV licence for a broken TV. He didn't have a licence becuase he couldn't afford to repair/replace the TV so thought there was no point in buying a licence for a non functioning device. Thankfully IIRC it got thrown out of court [1]. [1] No the TV that is :-) |
#17
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:05:21 +0000, Johannes H Andersen
wrote: We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem. Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in the first place. From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register too. Yes, this seems completely out of order to me. How far down that road do you go? Someone buying electronic components: transistors, resistors and capacitors could in principle build a TV tuner, so are these components also TV receiving equipment? Of course not. The difference is that the TV card comes complete with instructions to install and receive TV channels. The broadband adapter does not. In any case, the registering by the dealer does not necessarily mean that a TV license is required, but it is part of their intimidation. I suppose the next stage is a licence to have filings as people have been know to pick up radio via fillings. :-) |
#18
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:22:24 +0000, Bagpuss wrote:
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:08:16 +0000, Mike Scott wrote: On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:13:16 +0000, Johannes H Andersen wrote: ... Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in the first place. Umm, to connect a security camera to? But do you need a TV decoder to do this? The problem is the decoder It's easy and cards are cheap. Just a theoretical observation - I do use the card for teletext reception anyway so need a licence. bit to pick up and decode the TV signals. Its OK to have a monitor feed ro the like which is used for closed circuit cameras. In that case you should be using a video capture card not a TV decoder if you don't want them at the door. Even then they will still insist on harrasing you. They seem at times to go on the "you don't have a licenence then you must be watching TV illegally". A friend of mine got taken to court for not having a TV licence for a broken TV. He didn't have a licence becuase he couldn't afford to repair/replace the TV so thought there was no point in buying a licence for a non functioning device. Thankfully IIRC it got thrown out of court [1]. I do btw now have a TV and licence. But I was rather embarrassed some years ago, when we didn't have a TV (or computer) (yes, some people do live that way :-) ). I had one of the "you're unlicensed" threatening letters, which arrived a week before we actually went out to buy a TV. I still wonder whether the ptb (powers that be - a new tla? :-) ) thought we'd been bludgeoned into becoming legal! -- Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies. Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk regards. Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk) |
#19
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Bagpuss wrote: On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:05:21 +0000, Johannes H Andersen wrote: We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem. Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in the first place. From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register too. Yes, this seems completely out of order to me. How far down that road do you go? Someone buying electronic components: transistors, resistors and capacitors could in principle build a TV tuner, so are these components also TV receiving equipment? Of course not. The difference is that the TV card comes complete with instructions to install and receive TV channels. The broadband adapter does not. In any case, the registering by the dealer does not necessarily mean that a TV license is required, but it is part of their intimidation. I suppose the next stage is a licence to have filings as people have been know to pick up radio via fillings. :-) I have just terminated my TV license by end of January. I thought that it was poor value and needed to save up some money, so I'm taking a TV pause. In any case, I'm allowed to choose what I spend my money on. You have to explicitly terminate the licence, otherwise they will automatically backdate it next time you apply for a new licence. This is one of their little known tricks they're allowed to do. (See small print on the licence application). I expect the invisible van to come round any time soon, so I have no intentions of any sneak viewing, but I expect to be harassed a bit. |
#20
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Bagpuss wrote:
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:05:21 +0000, Johannes H Andersen wrote: We're talking about TV cards here. Presumably TVLA have wised up to such card as they certainly can be considered as TV receiving equipment. Hence a computer dealer selling TV cards *is* selling TV equipment and in that sense also a TV dealer. This has nothing to do with whether the said equipment is installed to receive TV or not, this is the buyers problem. Hence a TV licence for the buyer of the TV card is only required if he installs and uses the TV card. If he installs the card, then this is a gray area since the only rational reason for installing the card would to use it at some point for receiving TV, otherwise why install it in the first place. From what I recall they were trying to push a requirement of all computer vendors who sell PCs with "broadband" adapters to register too. Yes, this seems completely out of order to me. How far down that road do you go? Someone buying electronic components: transistors, resistors and capacitors could in principle build a TV tuner, so are these components also TV receiving equipment? Of course not. The difference is that the TV card comes complete with instructions to install and receive TV channels. The broadband adapter does not. In any case, the registering by the dealer does not necessarily mean that a TV license is required, but it is part of their intimidation. I suppose the next stage is a licence to have filings as people have been know to pick up radio via fillings. :-) I hope no-one in the Govt. is reading this thread or it may well happen ;-) Sadly, this is just another example of this, and previous, Govts. coming up with ever more ways to screw money out of us (aka Stealth Tax). The DVLA is even worse than TV Licensing. We all know that, with a few exceptions, if you use a motor vehicle on the public roads then you need a valid tax disk, but now since SORN was introduced 10(?) years ago you are committing an offence if you don't tell the DVLA that you are not using your vehicle on the road. Obviously this is to aid the DVLA and Police target those who are using unlicensed vehicles but it, potentially, turns law-abiding citizens into criminals. What next, you have to fill in a form, under pain of prosecution and a £1000 fine, stating that you don't/no longer have TV receiving eqipment? |
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