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Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs
Subject: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable,
Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs Note that while I may want to print out web pages with illustrations and other images, photo quality is not important as the other requirements (have two Epsons already) as long as the images are readable. How well it prints on quality paper such as paper suitable for resumes is also important. I imagine that a 300 by 300 dpi printer (if available) would be a decent choice. The ink ought to be cheap to produce (and therefore buy). The heads shouldn't be clog-prone, even with 3rd party inks. Of course, I doubt that anyone manufacturers even produce multifunction units at that "low" resolution anymore. Also, I prefer new since buying used has the potential to turn out to be a case of purchasing someone else's problems. Another concern is that a "low" res printer produced today would not only be cheap but also be cheaply built. I prefer printheads that are either replaceable or on the cartridge. From what I have read so far, it sounds like nothing really matches my criteria. Canon looked good until I read that "There are few good free software drivers for Canon and Lexmark inkjets. Do not buy one and expect success." http://www.linuxprinting.org/suggested.html Also, from my understanding Postscript (and probably PCL) are unlikely to be found in a inkjet in the price range I can consider (definitely under $300, probably half that). Also, must be available in the 48 continental states of the United Nations of Texas Thanks in advance. Bill Haught Extract tooth to reply. Enron is a case of compassionate conservatism. Republicans have *morale* clarity. Reselect George Bush http://georgewbush.org/ Four more wars!!! |
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"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote in message
... In article , "Bill Haught" wrote: Subject: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs Boy, you want it all, don't you? I've heard that sort of thing before in response to other questions posted to forums and newsgroups. Pretty much sums it up. Doesn't look realistic though. In case you haven't noticed, the entire inkjet printer industry is based on the fact that these things are throw-away devices. They design them to fail, and expect them to fail, so as to keep people buying new ones out of the factory. So durability is determined: they're not. Period. I have read that really cheap inkjet printers (I think the price mentioned was something like 20 or 30 dollars) tend to last about a month. By "durable" I mean in relative terms. Epsons (and even Canons) last longer than that. Of course, this may have been written before the "milk 'em with the consumables" marketing reached today's extremes (or perhaps they were referring to Lexmark?). You need to move to color lasers to get on-board print processing, and even then many of the low-end models don't have that. I figured that I'd be lucky to find a printer with 1) a motor at least no cheaper than a typical high res inkjets combined with 2) decent printheads that don't push the technology to the point of high ink costs and problems and 3) on-board processing. A strange request for sure. However, one model meeting the above requirements would do, so despite the apparent futility I decided to ask anyway in hopes of a pleasant surprise. Bill Haught Extract tooth to reply. Fan of oldamericancentury.org |
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"Elmo P. Shagnasty" ) writes: In article , "Bill Haught" wrote: Subject: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs Boy, you want it all, don't you? In case you haven't noticed, the entire inkjet printer industry is based on the fact that these things are throw-away devices. They design them to fail, and expect them to fail, so as to keep people buying new ones out of the factory. So durability is determined: they're not. Period. Let's not forget that consumers want that low end stuff. And once the price gets low enough, there has to be design cutting. I paid $500 for my first printer, a Radio Shack dot matrix printer in the fall of 1982. It was terribly slow, had lousy print quality, and was pretty much the cheapest I could get a new printer for in Canada back then. My next printer was a Smith Corona daisy wheel, for $399 in the summer of 1984. I needed something that would print good quality, because the dot matrix sure wouldn't qualify. Real slow, and I had to roll in each sheet of paper just like in my previous typewriter. And, it too was about the cheapest I could get a new daisy wheel printer at the time. In 1989, I replaced both printers with a $300 dot matrix printer, that had "near letter quality" that indeed was good enough that I could get rid of the really slow daisy wheel. By this point, dot matrix printers had come of age, and I have no idea if something cheaper could be had. When I switched to a Macintosh in 1994, I picked up a used Imagewriter, for about thirty dollars. Could have been as old as ten years old at that, but still worked fine. Might have used it up to 2001, but I found a cheap Imagewriter II for about the same price a few years later, so I switched because the later model was supposed to be faster. Both printers could still run, had I not retired them. My first and only inkjet printer, I got in the spring of 2001. I paid $20 used, but this was one that would have originally sold for hundreds of dollars, because that's what printers used to sell for. But I wasn't happy about the ink useage (or cost), and even the fact that the printout smeared when wet, so I only used it through one refill. I snagged my first laser printer, and old TI, for $25 that fall. Printed out a few thousand pages with the toner in it, then retired it when the toner ran out. It was old, but also not too common, and I'd gotten my money's worth. Replaced it with an HP Laserjet 4P, for fifteen dollars at a Rotary Club sale. Had to shake the toner cartridge to get printout, but that lasted at least 500 pages. The printer itself had a mere 3000 pages on its counter. Again, it sold for hundreds of dollars when new. I'll be keeping this one. This is the same issue as with winmodems. Consumers want low prices, and then they complain because there are tradeoffs. The tradeoffs come not because the companies want to cheat the consumer, the tradeoffs come because consumers want things cheap. As my history shows, printers traditionally cost good money, and you got something that would last. People no longer want to spend that money, so the only way to give them a printer that issues pretty pictures is to make a product that has faults, that may fail early because it's not as solidly built as a similar product made some years back. On the other hand, on those cheap printers is vastly better than printers I spent far more for decades ago. People print out high quality graphics like they make toast, when even a few years back we'd only print such things on the rare occasion because it just took too long, and th results weren't so great. Michael |
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Yes, and sadly, practically all consumers want the cheapest price point
on everything related to consumer electronics, not only computers and peripherals. Prior to computers becoming a mainstream and commodity product, prices were high for everything. Remember the days of a Seagate ST-225 20MB hard drive at a price point of $300??? Without a doubt, Microsoft certainly has its faults. But, without the gang from Redmond, WA, we would all still be paying ultra-premium prices for everything related to computing. With the commodity mentality of computer marketing today, low-end products are everywhere, especially in the ink-jet printer market. I, too, remember paying high prices for such products as an Okidata 82a or 182a 9-pin dot matrix printer. My first laser was a HP LaserJet IIIp (circa 1993) with a cost of nearly $1500. Only 4ppm, but built like a tank and still functioning today. I came from the electronics field, and the name HP meant first-class quality in the test equipment market. The biggest marketing mistake HP ever made was to enter the consumer computer market using the HP logo. After years of success in that market, they had to change their original name for the high-quality test equipment market to Agilent Technologies, due to the quality perception of their consumer computer line. You can still buy high-quality industrial-strength products that meet the original poster's basic technical requirements, but you do have to pay the price. A high-quality color laser printer is the best solution, but be prepared to pay multi-thousand dollar pricing for it. However, it will outlast a myriad of cheap inkjets, and be ultimately cheaper to operate. Linux is a fine operating system, but it really needs to get its act together regarding up-to-date hardware compatibility and drivers. Much of Linux development tends to target European standards, and most consumer computer users here in the USA don't use Postscript-based printers - rather PCL-based printers. Up until recently, some Linux distros did not inlcude PCL drivers for popular HP LaserJets! And, if your using a 3Com/USR controller-based PCI internal dial-up modem, good luck on finding a proper driver under Linux. I've used practically every distro of Linux since its rollout, and although Linux is certainly improving with every version, it's not ready for "prime time" for the average consumer computer user - close, but not close enough. For the hobbyist, or computer geek, yes it's a fine and stable OS. But, for someone who just wants to play a DVD, output photos to a photo printer, or easily install updates, Linux has some work to do before its accepted as a viable alternative to WinXP. Don |
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On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 02:34:14 GMT, "Bill Haught"
wrote: I usually put messages in the message body and perhaps a clue as to what the message is in the subject line. give that a try |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
In article , "Bill Haught" wrote: Subject: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs Boy, you want it all, don't you? In case you haven't noticed, the entire inkjet printer industry is based on the fact that these things are throw-away devices. They design them to fail, and expect them to fail, so as to keep people buying new ones out of the factory. Do something about it! One of my earlier posts..... Well you know guys, printers and ink are expensive and there is a nasty conspiracy to prevent it from becoming popular on the GNU/Linux platform. So what say some of you out there to an Open GNU/Linux printer project? The inkjet and laser printer can be standard mechanism as there are no patents, and the cartridges can be deliberaly designed for continued re-use forever - again no patents on those. The inks and powder are pennies as the raw materials are cheap before they are packaged into cartridges and us lot made to pay inflated prices for it. The printer electronics can be driven with GNU/Linux OS and could have as interface an ethernet port so that it works anywhere with any modern PC hooked up to ethernet. It can have a web interface to configure and control it. So even grandma can configure it by using her browser. It should have a socket for big memory (256Mb costs now only $20) and that memory can act as buffer for many print jobs or very high definition output using multi-size spot rendering - something that produces really high quality output (but requires big memory). The electronics and software is completely open, and easy to put into flash. Other items such as the print heads, the ink formulations, cartridges and everything under the sun is left as open projects. Anyone can copy and make their own version of printers and configure to their own language because it is an open project. A certain amount of knowhow and experience will give those involved in the project the edge over newbies when it comes to getting hold of investment but of course everyone should be doing their best anyway. To set up the project, we can start making the software, electronics and drivers, and then hope some investor or big government department, or some schools will give us the contract to produce several thousand printers and we are in the money. There is money in making the printer by the way - don't believe all you might hear - if you make it for $20, and sell it for $25, there are plenty of factories in China that can survive on that if the orders are 10,000 pieces at a time. Having studied these mechanisms before, I know it can be produced for between $10 and $20 for 10,000+ pieces FOB Hong Kong. To put it into production, the number of engineers required is 10 people working for about 6 months - thats about $50,000. I can get them to design all the plastics and metal parts. Then the cost of tooling is about $100,000. Add in contingency and some cash for processing the orders, the total investment figure is about $200,000. So for around 200,000 dollars new printers can be made. And if we take orders for say 100,000 pieces from someone like Wall Mart, there will be big orders for cartridges on the back of that. Any group of people with small beginnings can become a very large and open printer company. With GNU/Linux becoming ever more established, this could evolve into something of a big service to the open source community when M$ supporters might be trying to shaft us all from access to good printers. I'd love to be part of something like that if anyone wants to do it. I have experience of developing products in the Far East. So durability is determined: they're not. Period. Low ink costs? Canon, with refills. But they're not durable printers, so....nor, due to price pressure from the buying public, will any of them have anything even remotely resembling an on-board print processor. You need to move to color lasers to get on-board print processing, and even then many of the low-end models don't have that. |
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Bill Haught wrote:
Subject: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs If you want PostScript, durability, and other high-end features, be prepared to pay for them. Most of the commonly available printers are disposable, as others have said. However, HP does offer a high-end "Business Inkjet" line that offers PCL in all the models, and PostScript in the more expensive ones. The HP Business InkJet 1100 starts at an MSRP of $200 and offers PCL built-in. For $500 you can get the model 2300 with PostScript. Ink isn't terribly cheap at $34 per colour (four colours, estimated 1500 pages per refill). However, these models will be *much* more durable than the home units. Check out any of the "Business InkJet" models (not the DeskJets) listed on HP's site: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...51-236261.html |
#9
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On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 01:14:20 +0000, Bill Haught wrote:
Subject: Inkjet printers meeting the following requirements? Durable, Linux-compatible (or Postscript or PCL in FIRMWARE (built-in interpreter)), quality text & graphics, low ink refill or cartridge costs Note that while I may want to print out web pages with illustrations and other images, photo quality is not important as the other requirements (have two Epsons already) as long as the images are readable. How well it prints on quality paper such as paper suitable for resumes is also important. I imagine that a 300 by 300 dpi printer (if available) would be a decent choice. The ink ought to be cheap to produce (and therefore buy). The heads shouldn't be clog-prone, even with 3rd party inks. Of course, I doubt that anyone manufacturers even produce multifunction units at that "low" resolution anymore. Also, I prefer new since buying used has the potential to turn out to be a case of purchasing someone else's problems. Another concern is that a "low" res printer produced today would not only be cheap but also be cheaply built. I prefer printheads that are either replaceable or on the cartridge. From what I have read so far, it sounds like nothing really matches my criteria. Canon looked good until I read that "There are few good free software drivers for Canon and Lexmark inkjets. Do not buy one and expect success." http://www.linuxprinting.org/suggested.html Also, from my understanding Postscript (and probably PCL) are unlikely to be found in a inkjet in the price range I can consider (definitely under $300, probably half that). Also, must be available in the 48 continental states of the United Nations of Texas Thanks in advance. Bill Haught Extract tooth to reply. Enron is a case of compassionate conservatism. Republicans have *morale* clarity. Reselect George Bush http://georgewbush.org/ Four more wars!!! Strictly speaking, I think you are correct - the beast does not exits. Look for a cheapie that does some version of PCL and refill the cartridges - that's about as good as you can do. HP does make some low-cost units which work fine with linux - I got an Apollo P2200 a couple of years ago from OfficeMax - it's an HP print engine, basically Apollo was HP's low cost brand for a few seasons. I've been quite pleased with operation/durability. Mostly, for Linux, Canon makes good boat anchors. |
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"Michael Black" wrote in message ... People no longer want to spend that money, so the only way to give them a printer that issues pretty pictures is to make a product that has faults, that may fail early because it's not as solidly built as a similar product made some years back. So if you aren't a dumb consumer that wants a $9.99 toy or a Fortune 500 company with deep pockets for a $ 5,000 laser that can chug out 1,000 11 by 17 inch duplexed pages per milisecond with a mere four colors (I could care less about 16 million 64 to 256 would be fine), you are screwed. |
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