Two memory modules go bad at the same time?

My guess is that it is the motherboard. I have two Crucial 512MB DDR400
RAM modules and they've never given me any problems for 2-3 years now.

Any chance you can test your components on a separate mobo?

Cyde Weys wrote:
So my computer's running fine, and BAM, it suddenly becomes
nonfunctional. It repeatedly insta-reboots from inside Windows.
Windows will start successfully, but try using it for a minute or two
and the insta-reboot occurs. I figured maybe it's a problem with
Windows, so I tried my Gentoo Linux LiveCD ... not working either. The
computer boots fine and even sometimes gets the kernel booted, but it
quickly freezes after that.

So I'm thinking it may be a hardware problem. I try memtest86 from
within the Gentoo Linux LiveCD. I get millions of errors. At this
point I should probably mention that my memory consists of 2X Crucial
512MB DDR 333Mhz CL2.5 and my motherboard is an Asus A7N8X-X. So I
think one of my memory modules may be bad, so I try running with just
one. I get the errors in memtest. I try running it with just the
other memory module installed. I get the same errors in memtest:
specifically, the Err-Bits seem always to be 00ff0000.

Is it possible for two memory modules to both go bad simultaneously and
in the same fashion? I think it may be *possible*, but it's not
exactly probable. So what could be the problem then? Is my
motherboard borked?

And just to try to head off a question or two, I checked my BIOS
settings and the memory timing is set to 333Mhz.

None of your suggested diagnostics have helped me get the computer
working :-( At this point it looks like I'll be upgrading a bit ahead
of schedule. Here's the tentative parts list (from NewEgg):

EPoX EP-9NPAJ Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4-4X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: EP-9NPAJ $88.99

MSI NX6800-TD128E Geforce 6800 128MB DDR PCI Express x16 Video Card -
Retail
Model #: NX6800-TD128E $194.00

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model
ADA3500BPBOX - Retail
Model #: ADA3500BPBOX $219.00

I'm just looking for suggestions, like if I can get something else with
the same performance for a lower price, or if an upgrade that doesn't
cost a lot is worth it, etc.

Also, I notice that the mobo says it uses DDR Standard DDR 400 (PC
3200). The memory I currently have is DDR 333. Will it still work in
the mobo or will I have to get new memory too?

Ugh, this is all looking very expensive.

Also, if anyone has any suggestions on overclocking options, I'm
receptive to those. Can I safely overclock the CPU and GPU? What
aftermarket coolers would you recommend? Thanks!

Cyde Weys wrote:
David Maynard wrote:


It could be anything, including the CPU. After all, memory can't be read
without the CPU being involved.


Is it even possible for a CPU to malfunction in such a specific way
while still letting everything else work? It's not having problems
whatsoever booting and running memtest86 ... it's just when you try to
load an OS (which needs memory) that you get the problems.

I don't understand your "not having problems" running memtest description
when you then list the problems memtest reports.

Based on the description below, though, the processor wouldn't be high on
my guess list as processor problems are usually more random, if it runs, or
catastrophic preventing it from running (for very long).


But with persistent global errors of that type I'd tend to guess a BIOS
setting before hardware failure. Try 'safe' defaults and, in particular,
the slowest memory speed settings.


It doesn't seem to matter. I get the same errors. I paid attention
more time and it's more like 00XX0000 the first few seconds of
memtest86 where XX are random hex, but then it settles down to Err-Bits
00ff0000 over and over and over.

That sounds like a bus problem, such as weak driver, bad bus terminator,
dirty/bent contacts, warped memory connector, etc., on those specific bits
or some kind of contamination on the motherboard affecting the traces.
Could even be cracked traces from over-flexing (although I don't know what
would have caused the flexing). Flexing can also break the solder joints
under the BGAs as can overheating, like say the northbridge.

I'd concentrate first on a thorough cleaning of the motherboard, the memory
connectors and the memory module contacts mainly because it's doable and
there's not much you can do about cracked traces or the BGA solder.

On 16 Oct 2005 20:18:12 -0700, "Cyde Weys"
wrote:

None of your suggested diagnostics have helped me get the computer
working :-( At this point it looks like I'll be upgrading a bit ahead
of schedule. Here's the tentative parts list (from NewEgg):

EPoX EP-9NPAJ Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4-4X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: EP-9NPAJ $88.99

MSI NX6800-TD128E Geforce 6800 128MB DDR PCI Express x16 Video Card -
Retail
Model #: NX6800-TD128E $194.00

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model
ADA3500BPBOX - Retail
Model #: ADA3500BPBOX $219.00

I'm just looking for suggestions, like if I can get something else with
the same performance for a lower price, or if an upgrade that doesn't
cost a lot is worth it, etc.

The price above on a regular GF 6800, 128MB, looks a bit
high but maybe I'm only contrasting to sale prices.
Regardless, I think you can get near same performance for
much less $ in a 6600GT, or if you look out for deals you
might be able to get a 256MB version for around $200, though
I don't know if it would o'c as well.

Never been a fan of Epox boards, but never tried that one
either. Harder to know if it's reasonable except in
retrospect.



Also, I notice that the mobo says it uses DDR Standard DDR 400 (PC
3200). The memory I currently have is DDR 333. Will it still work in
the mobo or will I have to get new memory too?

For best performance, yes you will need new memory. Most
boards support async, slower memory bus but buying all new
parts just to underclock the memory bus for older memory
seems a bit limiting.


Ugh, this is all looking very expensive.

Yep, you could always get another skt A board now and buy
the other parts a piece at a time, preferribly the
motherboard last so you had all other parts available to be
sure it isn't problematic- and motherboard is usually most
likely defective or unworkable in some way, IF anything
were.



Also, if anyone has any suggestions on overclocking options, I'm
receptive to those. Can I safely overclock the CPU and GPU? What
aftermarket coolers would you recommend? Thanks!

"Safely"? Hard to classify really, but yes if you test
stability and monitor temps, including those of the
motherboard, it can be safe. No guarantee though, it's all
on you to make sure it stays within acceptible parameters.

Zalman and Thermalright make some nice 'sinks, get one that
takes a super-large quiet fan.

kony wrote:
On 16 Oct 2005 20:18:12 -0700, "Cyde Weys" wrote:
MSI NX6800-TD128E Geforce 6800 128MB DDR PCI Express x16 Video Card -
Retail
Model #: NX6800-TD128E $194.00

The price above on a regular GF 6800, 128MB, looks a bit
high but maybe I'm only contrasting to sale prices.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that there is a $30 off rebate.

Regardless, I think you can get near same performance for
much less $ in a 6600GT, or if you look out for deals you
might be able to get a 256MB version for around $200, though
I don't know if it would o'c as well.

Out of all 27 6600GT cards on NewEgg, only one has 256MB RAM, and it's
not even in stock (and even if it were, it's $200). Is 256MB RAM a lot
better than 128MB? Would it be worth spending the extra money to get a
256MB version of a 6800? Are the 6600GT and 6800 vanilla comparable in
terms of performance?

Never been a fan of Epox boards, but never tried that one
either. Harder to know if it's reasonable except in
retrospect.

Alright, I'll look for someone different. Any brands you tend to
prefer?


Also, I notice that the mobo says it uses DDR Standard DDR 400 (PC
3200). The memory I currently have is DDR 333. Will it still work in
the mobo or will I have to get new memory too?

For best performance, yes you will need new memory. Most
boards support async, slower memory bus but buying all new
parts just to underclock the memory bus for older memory
seems a bit limiting.

In terms of memory I figure I want 2GB. I tend to not stress the CPU
so much in every day to day usage but I stress the CRAP out of memory.
You know, having like twenty things open. Corsair 512MB DDR 400 memory
is only $44 so I could get four or those and stick 'em in a board with
4 slots. Or would it be better to get 2 sticks of 1GB, which is
slightly more expensive?

Ugh, this is all looking very expensive.

Yep, you could always get another skt A board now and buy
the other parts a piece at a time, preferribly the
motherboard last so you had all other parts available to be
sure it isn't problematic- and motherboard is usually most
likely defective or unworkable in some way, IF anything
were.

But I'd have to get another Socket A board that supports my current AGP
video card. To be able to upgrade either the CPU or GPU would require
getting another mobo anyway. About the only thing I could upgrade with
another Socket A mobo is the memory (up to DDR 400). This is, unless,
I choose one of those dual AGP/PCI-X boards, but those look kind of
iffy.

I really can't decide whether to spend a lot of money to upgrade my
overall system or just replace the mobo and go on for awhile with what
I have.

Cyde Weys wrote:
kony wrote:
Cyde Weys wrote:
Ugh, this is all looking very expensive.

Yep, you could always get another skt A board now and buy
the other parts a piece at a time, preferribly the
motherboard last so you had all other parts available to be
sure it isn't problematic- and motherboard is usually most
likely defective or unworkable in some way, IF anything
were.

But I'd have to get another Socket A board that supports my current AGP
video card. To be able to upgrade either the CPU or GPU would require
getting another mobo anyway. About the only thing I could upgrade with
another Socket A mobo is the memory (up to DDR 400). This is, unless,
I choose one of those dual AGP/PCI-X boards, but those look kind of
iffy.

I really can't decide whether to spend a lot of money to upgrade my
overall system or just replace the mobo and go on for awhile with what
I have.

I'm now looking at a differential in price between upgrading and
replacing that is greater than one order of magnitude. It just doesn't
make sense to upgrade. I found the following mobo at $36:

Foxconn 600A01-6LRS Socket A (Socket 462) VIA KT600 ATX AMD Motherboard
- Retail

* Model #: 600A01-6LRS
* Item #: N82E16813186025

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813186025

It has everything I need ... 5 PCI slots, DDR 400/333 FSB, and AGP 8X
slot. Unless there's some other mobo that has better features than
this one for not much more of a price.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

On 17 Oct 2005 02:07:32 -0700, "Cyde Weys"
wrote:


Out of all 27 6600GT cards on NewEgg, only one has 256MB RAM, and it's
not even in stock (and even if it were, it's $200). Is 256MB RAM a lot
better than 128MB? Would it be worth spending the extra money to get a
256MB version of a 6800? Are the 6600GT and 6800 vanilla comparable in
terms of performance?

Supposedly the 6800 will be marginally faster, but mainly
having it at the lower stock GPU speed means *on average* it
should have more o'c potential.

Most games don't "need" over 128MB memory unless details are
set to maximum. Future games are bound to use more though,
if it were my purchase and I already had a Radeon 9800 Pro,
I'd go with 256MB on any $150 card, IF gaming performance
is among the most important indexes for the new system.




Never been a fan of Epox boards, but never tried that one
either. Harder to know if it's reasonable except in
retrospect.

Alright, I'll look for someone different. Any brands you tend to
prefer?

Asus, Abit, sometimes MSI, Gigabyte on their mid-to-high end
boards. I dont' know how long you need it to last or
feature support though... I try to avoid recommending
specific boards as there are too many variables involved in
what's best for any specific person's needs. You can
probably get a lot of info on some in the motherboard
subsections of forums like http://forums.amdmb.com



For best performance, yes you will need new memory. Most
boards support async, slower memory bus but buying all new
parts just to underclock the memory bus for older memory
seems a bit limiting.

In terms of memory I figure I want 2GB. I tend to not stress the CPU
so much in every day to day usage but I stress the CRAP out of memory.
You know, having like twenty things open. Corsair 512MB DDR 400 memory
is only $44 so I could get four or those and stick 'em in a board with
4 slots. Or would it be better to get 2 sticks of 1GB, which is
slightly more expensive?

Yes it would be better to get 1GB per module when expecting
to use 2GB total. Get them both at same time and test
together to be sure they're stable.


Ugh, this is all looking very expensive.

Yep, you could always get another skt A board now and buy
the other parts a piece at a time, preferribly the
motherboard last so you had all other parts available to be
sure it isn't problematic- and motherboard is usually most
likely defective or unworkable in some way, IF anything
were.

But I'd have to get another Socket A board that supports my current AGP
video card. To be able to upgrade either the CPU or GPU would require
getting another mobo anyway. About the only thing I could upgrade with
another Socket A mobo is the memory (up to DDR 400). This is, unless,
I choose one of those dual AGP/PCI-X boards, but those look kind of
iffy.

My point was not to try to max-out skt A, rather to be able
to reuse the parts you already had- CPU, memory, video. If
the resulting system isn't enough performance, then sure,
you'll have to build another one too... but getting that one
running again for around $30-40 (typical price of some of
the refurb'd boards) is fairly cost-effective. I didn't
even consider it but does your board have a warranty in
effect?

I really can't decide whether to spend a lot of money to upgrade my
overall system or just replace the mobo and go on for awhile with what
I have.

Well, for the cost of a refurb'd board you can get by for
awhile, and even if you wanted to do the whole system
upgrade in a couple months, given the $ depreciation on the
newer parts and more time to hunt down deals, it could end
up being same or lower total cost... just depends on how
much of a need there is at this very moment for higher
performanace, since buying for the future is never a good
investment.

On 17 Oct 2005 02:16:10 -0700, "Cyde Weys"
wrote:


I'm now looking at a differential in price between upgrading and
replacing that is greater than one order of magnitude. It just doesn't
make sense to upgrade. I found the following mobo at $36:

Foxconn 600A01-6LRS Socket A (Socket 462) VIA KT600 ATX AMD Motherboard
- Retail

* Model #: 600A01-6LRS
* Item #: N82E16813186025

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813186025

It has everything I need ... 5 PCI slots, DDR 400/333 FSB, and AGP 8X
slot. Unless there's some other mobo that has better features than
this one for not much more of a price.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

I would go for nForce2 instead of KT600. I have both here,
the KT600 may test out better in synthetic benches than it
ends up doing in real world uses. I"m not too fond of the
OSI capacitors it uses (blue and gold ones) either, as I've
had to replace a few of those- not necessarily defective,
just lower quality, higher ESR caps that don't like running
hot or leave as much margin when overclocking. That board
also has an incredibly cheap VRM subcircuit, it's rare to
see 2 phase in TO252 'Fets.

Basically I"m suggesting that if you only want to spend
~$40, better to go with a refurb'd board. "Maybe" it is a
refurb but it's hard to tell because the part number doesn't
have "R" on the end like any others do. I think it's just a
dirt-cheaply manufactured board. One of the issues might be
whether you need integrated SATA. Most of the boards at the
'egg can handle DDR333 & AGP8X and have 5 PCI slots so long
as they're not mATX.

I'd probably get the MSI K7N2 Delta2-FSR @ $45,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813130512R
but is it right for you? I can only speak for what I'd buy
for myself in this situation. It's northbridge fan may need
throttled back or a passive 'sink installed, and the CPU
socket doesn't have the 4 mounting holes around it for
through-board types of heatsink mounts. In the picture it
also looks like they left a few pin-headers off the board
but I"m too lazy ATM to find out if it's important or not.
Integrated GbE is nice though, especially if you wanted to
turn it into a fileserver some day.

Alright guys I've sorted out my troubles. I was able to pretty much
rule out everything except the mobo as not working, so I bought the
mobo kony suggested, I just installed it, and I'm now running memtest86
and not getting the errors.

Windows isn't booting, mind you, but that's a Windows driver issue, not
a hardware issue.

Grrrr, stupid Windows. It should be able to hot-swap mobos.

Cyde Weys wrote:
Alright guys I've sorted out my troubles. I was able to pretty much
rule out everything except the mobo as not working, so I bought the
mobo kony suggested, I just installed it, and I'm now running memtest86
and not getting the errors.

Windows isn't booting, mind you, but that's a Windows driver issue, not
a hardware issue.

I think I ran into this issue before, and I ended up just reinstalling
Windows. I'm not sure if there even is an alternate solution. I'm
downloading Windows XP now (I always lose CDs, dammit), and hopefully
I'll have my system back up and running at the end of the night.