Meaning of OEM

Arthur Entlich wrote:
As you mention OEM means "Original Equipment Manufacturer", as opposed
to a 3rd party product. It may not be MADE by the company that packages
it, but it is the product that manufacturers supply to the public with
their product.

But it no longer means that in the computer spares/parts world.

An OEM optical drive is simply one with no 'goodies', it has no
connection whatsoever with the original manufacturer of the computer
you're buying it for, the supplier doesn't even know what computer
you're buying it for.

The term, for instance, is used with car parts. For example, Honda used
Michelin for the tires sold on their cars from the factory. The tires
usually are special order, made in huge quantities for Honda and may not
be available to the general public as a part, even though Michelin make
lots of tires that will fit Hondas. If your Michelin Honda tire were to
fail during warranty, you may not be able to get a replacement from a
Michelin dealer, but would be able to from Honda.

Honda got the tires for less than an equivalent Michelin tire would be
available to you because it is supplied to Honda in vast quantities, may
have some features removed or adapted, and the packaging or labeling
might be different.

However, again with car parts, an OEM part made by either the car
manufacturer, or their sub contractor, may actually been more costly
than a 3rd party part. For instance, a Ford branded OEM shock absorber
may cost more than buying a 3rd party shock absorber.

Yes, true for car parts and that's what I would take it to mean in
that field. What I was trying to say was that the situation is
*entirely* different now in the computer field and OEM *doesn't* mean
the same thing.


In the case of ink, OEM means the ink branded by the printer
manufacturer, and usually sold at a premium price. 3rd party are either
ink formulators or distributors who sell ink under different brand
names. It may actually be the same ink you get from the printer
manufacturer, or a similar ink made by the same company, or a similar
ink made by another company, or a quite different ink made by either.

Yes, I realise that's what's meant by OEM in this group regarding
printer ink but it's a *different* usage from that which applies in
most of the computer (at least home PC) parts business and I was just
trying to bring this out because I think many people coming to this
newsgroup afresh may find this confusing.

--
Chris Green

Hi Chris,

I can't say how the term OEM is being used in the UK, since I am not
there, but we too have access to OEM "spare" parts which come to us
cheaper and without the "frills", however, here the terminology still
means the same thing as it did with cars, etc.

Those "no frills" peripherals or parts (spares) aren't "no frills".
They are surplus OEM product which was manufactured and packaged for the
wholesale manufacturers of finished goods, at a discount due to either
quantity, quality, feature set changes or lack of extras and perhaps
warranty length. These OEM goods are actually sold under only
quasi-legal circumstances. OEM goods are actually NOT supposed to be
sold to end users at all. They should only be sold to equipment
builders or service depots, but either through diversion of the stock
(similar to gray market), sale of overstock or liquidation goods (in the
high tech market things become outdated so quickly discarding the last
version quickly is a method to save loses).

In reality, buying OEM as an end user is similar to buying an upgrade of
a computer program you do not have the original of. Legally, you have
no right to get the upgrade at upgrade price if you do not own a
legitimate original version, but it often works on your computer.

In some countries that allow for it, an OEM product may very well come
with a much smaller or nonexistent warranty from the manufacturer, and
this restricted or nonexistent warranty may be [passed on from the
retailer, leaving one stuck with a bad device and no method for a good
outcome. In the same way that although it may technically be legal to
buy a gray market product that was released to be sold in a specific
market that isn't your own, the company, at least in North America, can
legally refuse to honor any warranty, in fact, in some cases the
distributor sells the goods without any written warranty and none may be
forthcoming.

Art

wrote:

Arthur Entlich wrote:

As you mention OEM means "Original Equipment Manufacturer", as opposed
to a 3rd party product. It may not be MADE by the company that packages
it, but it is the product that manufacturers supply to the public with
their product.


But it no longer means that in the computer spares/parts world.

An OEM optical drive is simply one with no 'goodies', it has no
connection whatsoever with the original manufacturer of the computer
you're buying it for, the supplier doesn't even know what computer
you're buying it for.


The term, for instance, is used with car parts. For example, Honda used
Michelin for the tires sold on their cars from the factory. The tires
usually are special order, made in huge quantities for Honda and may not
be available to the general public as a part, even though Michelin make
lots of tires that will fit Hondas. If your Michelin Honda tire were to
fail during warranty, you may not be able to get a replacement from a
Michelin dealer, but would be able to from Honda.

Honda got the tires for less than an equivalent Michelin tire would be
available to you because it is supplied to Honda in vast quantities, may
have some features removed or adapted, and the packaging or labeling
might be different.

However, again with car parts, an OEM part made by either the car
manufacturer, or their sub contractor, may actually been more costly
than a 3rd party part. For instance, a Ford branded OEM shock absorber
may cost more than buying a 3rd party shock absorber.


Yes, true for car parts and that's what I would take it to mean in
that field. What I was trying to say was that the situation is
*entirely* different now in the computer field and OEM *doesn't* mean
the same thing.


In the case of ink, OEM means the ink branded by the printer
manufacturer, and usually sold at a premium price. 3rd party are either
ink formulators or distributors who sell ink under different brand
names. It may actually be the same ink you get from the printer
manufacturer, or a similar ink made by the same company, or a similar
ink made by another company, or a quite different ink made by either.


Yes, I realise that's what's meant by OEM in this group regarding
printer ink but it's a *different* usage from that which applies in
most of the computer (at least home PC) parts business and I was just
trying to bring this out because I think many people coming to this
newsgroup afresh may find this confusing.

On 18-Oct-2006, wrote:

Since in the UK our rights are wholly with respect to the supplier
from whom we bought the item and not at all against the manufacturer
this isn't really an issue here.

And after a few months have passed the supplier claims
that the device has been in some way misused or hides
behind call centres and people who never deal with the
matter, or ring back.
It is an issue.
With retail products, you go after the vendor, and in the final
resort, after the runaround, go to Small Claims In the County
Court jointly against the vendor and one other, the
manufacturer, who warantees retail products, file your action,
pay the fee, and await the response.
Let the vendor and the manufacturer decide between
them who is going to honour the warranty.
Even the big multinationals and plc retail chains, with
their own legal teams, finally sort the matter out, and then
to avoid the courts "Sorry for the misunderstanding,
we are committed to goodwill, and are prepared to
replace the product (and pay the court fees + reasonable
costs)".
Teed off, I've been there, done that.
It's the whole point of having Small Claims Courts.

wrote:

On 18-Oct-2006, wrote:

Since in the UK our rights are wholly with respect to the supplier
from whom we bought the item and not at all against the manufacturer
this isn't really an issue here.

And after a few months have passed the supplier claims
that the device has been in some way misused or hides
behind call centres and people who never deal with the
matter, or ring back.

I think you're saying the same as me, it's the *seller* who has
responsibility, not the manufacturer. It makes no difference
whatsover to your rights against the seller whether the item is OEM or
not though.

It is an issue.
With retail products, you go after the vendor, and in the final
resort, after the runaround, go to Small Claims In the County

Yes, and an "OEM" product is just as "retail" in this context as any
other if you are a private buyer.

Court jointly against the vendor and one other, the
manufacturer, who warantees retail products, file your action,
pay the fee, and await the response.
Let the vendor and the manufacturer decide between
them who is going to honour the warranty.
Even the big multinationals and plc retail chains, with
their own legal teams, finally sort the matter out, and then
to avoid the courts "Sorry for the misunderstanding,
we are committed to goodwill, and are prepared to
replace the product (and pay the court fees + reasonable
costs)".
Teed off, I've been there, done that.
It's the whole point of having Small Claims Courts.

--
Chris Green

Arthur Entlich wrote:
I obviously should have read ahead a bit before answering the same
posting you did... I posted almost the same thing, only using Ford
rather than GM... weird.

Art


Not really, I just have a preference for GM cars, so that's the brand
that popped in my head when I wrote it.

Now, we just need a Chrysler fan to show up for the hat-trick.

=============================
MCheu

The only question that might come up is the legitimacy of purchasing OEM
parts retail. Some packaging even will say "OEM - not to be sold to end
users", or something like that. So then the question arises if the end
user understood that in buying the product as OEM goods whether a
reasonable assumption could be made that they waived their rights to
warranty of any kind.

OEM parts are not made/packaged to be sold to end users, and, as I
stated earlier, are usually sold with restricted or no warranty as a
separate part. An example was with CPUs. Intel provided very different
warranties for :full box" versions, which were sold to end users and
packaged as such, which came with a one year or more warranty, versus
OEM versions which were only officially supposed to be sold in stalled
in computers which only ad a 90 day warranty. The full box version also
cost considerably more.

Art

wrote:
wrote:

On 18-Oct-2006, wrote:


Since in the UK our rights are wholly with respect to the supplier
from whom we bought the item and not at all against the manufacturer
this isn't really an issue here.

And after a few months have passed the supplier claims
that the device has been in some way misused or hides
behind call centres and people who never deal with the
matter, or ring back.


I think you're saying the same as me, it's the *seller* who has
responsibility, not the manufacturer. It makes no difference
whatsover to your rights against the seller whether the item is OEM or
not though.


It is an issue.
With retail products, you go after the vendor, and in the final
resort, after the runaround, go to Small Claims In the County


Yes, and an "OEM" product is just as "retail" in this context as any
other if you are a private buyer.


Court jointly against the vendor and one other, the
manufacturer, who warantees retail products, file your action,
pay the fee, and await the response.
Let the vendor and the manufacturer decide between
them who is going to honour the warranty.
Even the big multinationals and plc retail chains, with
their own legal teams, finally sort the matter out, and then
to avoid the courts "Sorry for the misunderstanding,
we are committed to goodwill, and are prepared to
replace the product (and pay the court fees + reasonable
costs)".
Teed off, I've been there, done that.
It's the whole point of having Small Claims Courts.

Arthur Entlich wrote:
The only question that might come up is the legitimacy of purchasing OEM
parts retail. Some packaging even will say "OEM - not to be sold to end
users", or something like that. So then the question arises if the end
user understood that in buying the product as OEM goods whether a
reasonable assumption could be made that they waived their rights to
warranty of any kind.

That is the seller's problem though, not the buyer's. If a bona fide
consumer buys something from a business then all of the consumer
legislation applies, the manufacturer can write what they like on the
packaging but it can't reduce the consumer's rights against the
business from whome they bought the goods.


OEM parts are not made/packaged to be sold to end users, and, as I
stated earlier, are usually sold with restricted or no warranty as a
separate part. An example was with CPUs. Intel provided very different
warranties for :full box" versions, which were sold to end users and
packaged as such, which came with a one year or more warranty, versus
OEM versions which were only officially supposed to be sold in stalled
in computers which only ad a 90 day warranty. The full box version also
cost considerably more.

But (in the UK, and probably most of Europe) those warranties are *in
addition* to the 'fit for purpose' requirement. The right that the
buyer has to demand of the seller that the item is 'fit for purpose'
can't be curtailed or reduced in any retail transaction. The
manufacturer has no say whatsoever in the matter (unless they are
selling direct to the consumer, but then the same consumer legislation
would apply).

E.g. I bought a dishwasher a few years ago which had a manufacturer's
1 year warranty. It failed after about 18 months. I asked the web
'shop' that sold it to me to sort it out as a dishwasher is expected
to last more than 18 months (consumer legislation in this area is much
set about with 'reasonableness') and, with very little hesitation,
they agreed and got me a new replacement dishwasher. The fact that
the manufacturer's 1 year warranty had expired was completely
irrelevant.

--
Chris Green

I am NOT a Ford fan at all... I would never consider owning one. In
fact, I picked it because it is a brand of car that would likely need a
lot of replacement (OEM or aftermarket) parts ;-)

Art

mcheu wrote:

Arthur Entlich wrote:

I obviously should have read ahead a bit before answering the same
posting you did... I posted almost the same thing, only using Ford
rather than GM... weird.

Art



Not really, I just have a preference for GM cars, so that's the brand
that popped in my head when I wrote it.

Now, we just need a Chrysler fan to show up for the hat-trick.

=============================
MCheu

Arthur Entlich wrote:
I am NOT a Ford fan at all... I would never consider owning one. In
fact, I picked it because it is a brand of car that would likely need a
lot of replacement (OEM or aftermarket) parts ;-)

Art


Yeah. I owned a Ford, an Aerostar minivan. It was absolute hell to work
on, almost unrepairable. It was my first Ford. It suffered from a
well-known head gasket problem. It also suffered from the famous Ford
heater core problem. And thus it was my last Ford ever.

Richard

Arthur Entlich wrote:

In reality, buying OEM as an end user is similar to buying an upgrade of
a computer program you do not have the original of. Legally, you have
no right to get the upgrade at upgrade price if you do not own a
legitimate original version, but it often works on your computer.

What the hell is this? Suppose my chipset being relatively new, I decide to
upgrade the processor. I can order a nice boxed one from a corner store and
pay big wampums. I can order the same on the net from AMD and save a little.
Or I can go to a big retailer, who has ordered batch a 1000 OEM of the same
processor and get it for even cheaper.

If Fry's does a better job at retailing the processor, they pick the marbles
on retailing, but AMD still makes a profit as a manufacturer. If AMD tries
outselling the big retailer, the corner stores won't be glad. If AMD didn't
want to give quantity discounts, well, Intel probably would. So they have to
give discount prices on quantities and pricing is a question of balance.

Hardware manufacturers always make a profit when one of their products is
sold. The market has different demands. Some people prefer to go to the corner
store and have their cpu installed. But computers are cheaper, therefore,
errors are less costly, and they've been demystified, they're now considered
as just another commodity, so the number of these corner stores is dwindling.
Most people prefer either to order directly from the manufacturer on the net
or to get their stuff from big retail stores that, just as manufacturers, buy
OEM in large quantities.

Of course, selling the boxes gets harder by the day. So, here comes the
bull**** about the OEM being second rate products. They're not! It's not like
3rd party inks: they bear the manufacturer's name and if they malfunction
during the warranty period, you may return them and get a new one. Note that
even large retailers sell boxes. There's always the kind of people who believe
that Windows XP they got in a box is great, whereas Linux, that they can get
for free on the net, is crap.

Branded OEM equipment is not poor quality.Now, could processors that use less
voltage be boxed whereas those that just meet the standards be OEMed ? Maybe.
But if you could toast your bread on your CPU or if it was in any other way
defective, it would legally have to be labeled "sold as is" for the warranty
to be waived. With the huge amount of OEM equipment sold on the market, no
company could pretend, that it was done without their knowledge and consent
and that the equipment needed more testing before it was released on the market.

I would think that OEM equipment is nowadays the major part of equipment sold
on the retail market. If there were so many problems with it, the matter would
have been made clear by now.