[OT] Laptop Repair?

I got a new ASUS laptop for Christmas - a K55N - and its my first
laptop. (I've used laptops before but this is the first one I've owned.)

I am reasonably comfortable in opening the case on desktop computers and
have installed memory, replaced a DVD burner, and added hard drives on
desktops but I have never opened a laptop.

I'm not even sure HOW to open my laptop given the very few visible
screws. Am I going to find it a completely different animal than my
desktops have been?

The reason I ask is that I have one sticky key - the comma - that needs
to be pressed considerably harder than any of the other keys and it
would be nice to fix it, assuming that's possible. I can also imagine
adding more memory or replacing the hard drive with a bigger one at some
point. Are those tasks that I might reasonably expect to do myself? Or
do laptops basically get left alone by anyone except a professional
repair person?

--
Rhino

On 4/12/2013 4:27 PM, Rhino wrote:

I got a new ASUS laptop for Christmas - a K55N - and its my first
laptop. (I've used laptops before but this is the first one I've owned.)

I am reasonably comfortable in opening the case on desktop computers and
have installed memory, replaced a DVD burner, and added hard drives on
desktops but I have never opened a laptop.

I'm not even sure HOW to open my laptop given the very few visible
screws. Am I going to find it a completely different animal than my
desktops have been?

The reason I ask is that I have one sticky key - the comma - that needs
to be pressed considerably harder than any of the other keys and it
would be nice to fix it, assuming that's possible. I can also imagine
adding more memory or replacing the hard drive with a bigger one at some
point. Are those tasks that I might reasonably expect to do myself? Or
do laptops basically get left alone by anyone except a professional
repair person?


It is usually not recommended for a non-techie to open a laptop
and servicing internal components. And certainly not without having
a copy of the technical [i.e., not user] manual. There are plenty
of small screws and delicate ribbon cables in tight spaces.

Adding memory or replacing the hard drive can, however, be done by
the user as their compartments are accessible and instructions are
in the user's guide.

GR

Rhino wrote:
I got a new ASUS laptop for Christmas - a K55N - and its my first
laptop. (I've used laptops before but this is the first one I've owned.)

I am reasonably comfortable in opening the case on desktop computers and
have installed memory, replaced a DVD burner, and added hard drives on
desktops but I have never opened a laptop.

I'm not even sure HOW to open my laptop given the very few visible
screws. Am I going to find it a completely different animal than my
desktops have been?

The reason I ask is that I have one sticky key - the comma - that needs
to be pressed considerably harder than any of the other keys and it
would be nice to fix it, assuming that's possible. I can also imagine
adding more memory or replacing the hard drive with a bigger one at some
point. Are those tasks that I might reasonably expect to do myself? Or
do laptops basically get left alone by anyone except a professional
repair person?


What's the warranty period ?

Could an authorized service center fit a new keyboard ?

Does the first year of warranty come from the vendor ?
Or do you end up talking to Asus for everything ?

*******

There are parts sites, that sometimes have a procedure. This procedure
though, is generic, and not to be trusted. They've probably never taken
one apart.

http://www.drives-storage.co.uk/new-...sus-k55n-58841

This site has disassembly photo albums for older machines, but because
there are so many different models, they couldn't handle all of them.
You can see this keyboard, pulling out from the top edge. The tabs
along the bottom edge, might function as a hinge.

http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptop...ssembly-09.jpg

While Asus has a forum (vip.asus.com), the laptop section seems to be
disorganized. I don't know if there is a need to register and log in,
to gain access, or what the story is. The vip.asus.com forums work
much better, when you're looking for motherboard details.

On older laptops, you use a plastic tool, to pull out the trim strip
just above the keyboard. That allows access, to pull the keyboard up
and out, remove any hidden screws, carefully disconnect the keyboard
cable, and so on. In that Irisvista photo, the trim strip doesn't seem
to need to be removed.

Also, something to watch about keyboards. On "world-wide" laptops, there
can be four or more *different* models of keyboards. If you were to shop
for one on Ebay, you might originally have had an English keyboard, and
end up with one with French accent marks, or Russian, or... whatever.
You have to be very careful, to acquire an exact replacement for
the existing keyboard. In some cases, when you plug in the wrong
keyboard, pressing a key gives a "surprise" keycode, making the keyboard
useless.

Paul

On 2013-04-12 20:31, Ghostrider01 00 wrote:
On 4/12/2013 4:27 PM, Rhino wrote:

I got a new ASUS laptop for Christmas - a K55N - and its my first
laptop. (I've used laptops before but this is the first one I've owned.)

I am reasonably comfortable in opening the case on desktop computers and
have installed memory, replaced a DVD burner, and added hard drives on
desktops but I have never opened a laptop.

I'm not even sure HOW to open my laptop given the very few visible
screws. Am I going to find it a completely different animal than my
desktops have been?

The reason I ask is that I have one sticky key - the comma - that needs
to be pressed considerably harder than any of the other keys and it
would be nice to fix it, assuming that's possible. I can also imagine
adding more memory or replacing the hard drive with a bigger one at some
point. Are those tasks that I might reasonably expect to do myself? Or
do laptops basically get left alone by anyone except a professional
repair person?


It is usually not recommended for a non-techie to open a laptop
and servicing internal components. And certainly not without having
a copy of the technical [i.e., not user] manual. There are plenty
of small screws and delicate ribbon cables in tight spaces.

That's about what I suspected. How would I go about getting the
technical manual if I wanted it? I don't see it in the list of manuals
for the K55N. Is it available free online somewhere or is it one of
these deals where you have to spend $50-100 for it? (I had to spend an
ungodly amount for a manual for one of my cars some years back.) I
probably won't attempt servicing myself if it's as complicated/fidgety
as it sounds but I'd be curious to open it once just to see how
complicated it is.

Adding memory or replacing the hard drive can, however, be done by
the user as their compartments are accessible and instructions are
in the user's guide.

In my case, there isn't much in the way of instructions or diagrams,
just an indication of where the memory and hard drive can be accessed
on the bottom of the laptop.
(http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/nb/...K55DR_Z104.pdf,
page 19). If I opened those spots up, I might be able to reason out how
the change the drive or add memory but I won't know until I try....





--
Rhino

On 2013-04-12 23:24, Paul wrote:
Rhino wrote:
I got a new ASUS laptop for Christmas - a K55N - and its my first
laptop. (I've used laptops before but this is the first one I've owned.)

I am reasonably comfortable in opening the case on desktop computers
and have installed memory, replaced a DVD burner, and added hard
drives on desktops but I have never opened a laptop.

I'm not even sure HOW to open my laptop given the very few visible
screws. Am I going to find it a completely different animal than my
desktops have been?

The reason I ask is that I have one sticky key - the comma - that
needs to be pressed considerably harder than any of the other keys and
it would be nice to fix it, assuming that's possible. I can also
imagine adding more memory or replacing the hard drive with a bigger
one at some point. Are those tasks that I might reasonably expect to
do myself? Or do laptops basically get left alone by anyone except a
professional repair person?


What's the warranty period ?

Could an authorized service center fit a new keyboard ?

Does the first year of warranty come from the vendor ?
Or do you end up talking to Asus for everything ?

Good questions. I'm not 100% sure how the warranty works. I seem to
remember filling out an online warranty card that mentioned a one year
warranty. Hmm. I've just gone to the ASUS website -
http://support.asus.com/warranty.asp...g0rMbdseC566Sg
- which I assume/hope covers Canada and it says there is a one year
limited warranty.

The computer was purchased at Best Buy so it's probably worth a call to
see if they will take care of it themselves. That would presumably be
quicker and eliminate the need to box it up for shipping somewhere.

I just called Best Buy and they say that since I bought only the
manufacturers warranty, it has to be sent back to the manufacturer. I
can bring it to them but all they will do is box it up and ship it to
ASUS for me. That'll save me having to find a box (I have the original
box but discarded the styrofoam packing at Christmas) and presumably the
postage but that's all. Best Buy said the computer would likely be gone
two to three weeks for the work.

Now, there is ONE little problem that may be a deal-breaker. I did drop
the laptop once. It was in a tote bag - I didn't have a proper bag for
it yet - and someone startled me and I dropped the bag about a foot,
maybe 18 inches, on to a hardwood floor. The left click felt a bit wonky
after that but I don't know if the comma key was acting up before that;
I just don't recall. There are no marks or other external signs that
something happened. Would they have some sort of indicator inside to
show that it had been bumped? Technically, they COULD possibly justify
refusing to repair it (for free) on the grounds that I had violated
condition D of the warranty: "There is damage caused by accident,
natural disaster, intentional or accidental misuse, abuse, neglect or
improper maintenance, or use under abnormal conditions".

I can picture sending it in to get that key fixed (or maybe the keyboard
replaced altogether if they don't/can't fix individual keys) but then
having the tech declare that it was damaged and the warranty void. Then,
I'd have to pay some possibly substantial fee for the repairs and/or for
the return shipping. The sticky key isn't really all that bad and I can
get used to hitting it harder if it comes to that.


*******

There are parts sites, that sometimes have a procedure. This procedure
though, is generic, and not to be trusted. They've probably never taken
one apart.

http://www.drives-storage.co.uk/new-...sus-k55n-58841


This site has disassembly photo albums for older machines, but because
there are so many different models, they couldn't handle all of them.
You can see this keyboard, pulling out from the top edge. The tabs
along the bottom edge, might function as a hinge.

http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptop...ssembly-09.jpg

If you're not confident about these photos/procedures, I'm not inclined
to trust them either.

While Asus has a forum (vip.asus.com), the laptop section seems to be
disorganized. I don't know if there is a need to register and log in,
to gain access, or what the story is. The vip.asus.com forums work
much better, when you're looking for motherboard details.

On older laptops, you use a plastic tool, to pull out the trim strip
just above the keyboard. That allows access, to pull the keyboard up
and out, remove any hidden screws, carefully disconnect the keyboard
cable, and so on. In that Irisvista photo, the trim strip doesn't seem
to need to be removed.


The more I think about this, the more reluctant I am to try to mess with
the laptop. It's basically the old "if it works, don't fix it"
principle. While the laptop doesn't work perfectly, it's about 99.5%
right now. If I screw something up trying to fix that comma key, I could
easily reduce the functionality a LOT and end up costing myself time and
money, maybe quite a lot of both. That doesn't seem worth it for one
sticky key.

Also, something to watch about keyboards. On "world-wide" laptops, there
can be four or more *different* models of keyboards. If you were to shop
for one on Ebay, you might originally have had an English keyboard, and
end up with one with French accent marks, or Russian, or... whatever.
You have to be very careful, to acquire an exact replacement for
the existing keyboard. In some cases, when you plug in the wrong
keyboard, pressing a key gives a "surprise" keycode, making the keyboard
useless.

That's definitely an issue here in Canada. When I was looking at laptops
before Christmas, I was surprised to see that virtually every keyboard
was a "Canadian" one. It used to be that laptops sold in this country
were always US keyboards. Mine has extra keys for characters used only
for French (like and ), one of which occupies the space between my
Z key and the left Shift key which really messes me up. But I did some
digging and found KeyTweak. I used it to remap that key to be an
additional Left Shift. I _think_ the Canadian keyboards were some kind
of government-mandated thing that came into effect a year or two back. I
found many comments about it online and virtually none of them was
favourable, even from native French-speakers. (They all had
long-established techniques to get those characters from their own US
keyboards.)

But assuming I service this in Canada, I have to assume that ASUS repair
depots in this country would have plenty of this keyboard. It seems to
be the ONLY keyboard available stock on any laptop sold here. (I assume
you can special order other keyboards but haven't checked that out.)


--
Rhino

Rhino wrote:


Now, there is ONE little problem that may be a deal-breaker. I did drop
the laptop once. It was in a tote bag - I didn't have a proper bag for
it yet - and someone startled me and I dropped the bag about a foot,
maybe 18 inches, on to a hardwood floor. The left click felt a bit wonky
after that but I don't know if the comma key was acting up before that;
I just don't recall. There are no marks or other external signs that
something happened. Would they have some sort of indicator inside to
show that it had been bumped? Technically, they COULD possibly justify
refusing to repair it (for free) on the grounds that I had violated
condition D of the warranty: "There is damage caused by accident,
natural disaster, intentional or accidental misuse, abuse, neglect or
improper maintenance, or use under abnormal conditions".

All I can answer for you, is the technical side.

It is possible, to add "G sensor" components, to electronics. It's
even possible that hard drives have those (so Seagate or WD can determine
if you drop a hard drive).

We used to use them at work. We used to tape a "ShockWatch" to the cardboard
shipping container for our computers. That was used to detect whether
the shipper treated the product badly. And provided feedback to the
product management team. (Get the cardboard box back, on the returned product,
examine the color of the ShockWatch.)

A G or shock sensor, basically just has a threshold, and once you cross it,
indicates more than that has been applied to the device. Our ShockWatch, for
example, was set to around 10 G's. Which was considered to be enough
to damage the computer. (I wasn't in on the details of this, but the
guy running the program, showed me what they were doing.) Things like
an SSD, they could take a lot larger number than that, so you would pick
a recording device with a larger threshold. In our case, the ShockWatch
was "low tech". It was just a dye capsule, and the capsule would break
and you would see a color change through a plastic window, if the product
was abused. So it's about as high tech, as an electrical fuse :-) And
presumably, cheap to add as well.

Laptop hard drives, have a dynamic G sensor, which detects when the
laptop is in "free fall". If dropped from three feet, with the
power applied, laptops equipped with that feature, can "park
the heads" before the laptop hits the floor. It takes both
the right kind of hard drive, as well as code to run it, to
make that work. The idea is, with the heads parked, the head won't
"bounce" off the platter and leave a mark. If enough shock is
applied, the head can snap off.

Paul

Previously, on Usenet Rhino
wrote:

The more I think about this, the more reluctant I am to try to mess with
the laptop. It's basically the old "if it works, don't fix it"
principle.

I must admit to being the opposite on that one. Whatever gadget I have
I like to know what it looks like inside and how to fix minor
problems.

My second laptop was an IBM Thinkpad, used, and I was lucky to find
that IBM had all sorts of manuals online. There were very detailed
instructions on how to disassemble the many various models and exact
spare part numbers etc, making it reasonably doable to work on their
Thinkpads. That is one big reason why I have since kept buying
Thinkpads. For a while I had 12 working units and a few more that I
had cannibalized.

Since years I often help friends with their computers and whenever
someone is talking about getting a laptop I tell them if they get a
Thinkpad I will always help out.

I really think you should try to find the service manual for your Asus
and see that it is probably not all that difficult to have a peek
inside.

You may want to start having a look at this thread;
http://tinyurl.com/cj2dflt

Lars
Stockholm

On 2013-04-13 17:01, Paul wrote:
Rhino wrote:


Now, there is ONE little problem that may be a deal-breaker. I did
drop the laptop once. It was in a tote bag - I didn't have a proper
bag for it yet - and someone startled me and I dropped the bag about a
foot, maybe 18 inches, on to a hardwood floor. The left click felt a
bit wonky after that but I don't know if the comma key was acting up
before that; I just don't recall. There are no marks or other external
signs that something happened. Would they have some sort of indicator
inside to show that it had been bumped? Technically, they COULD
possibly justify refusing to repair it (for free) on the grounds that
I had violated condition D of the warranty: "There is damage caused by
accident, natural disaster, intentional or accidental misuse, abuse,
neglect or improper maintenance, or use under abnormal conditions".

All I can answer for you, is the technical side.

It is possible, to add "G sensor" components, to electronics. It's
even possible that hard drives have those (so Seagate or WD can determine
if you drop a hard drive).

We used to use them at work. We used to tape a "ShockWatch" to the
cardboard
shipping container for our computers. That was used to detect whether
the shipper treated the product badly. And provided feedback to the
product management team. (Get the cardboard box back, on the returned
product,
examine the color of the ShockWatch.)

A G or shock sensor, basically just has a threshold, and once you cross it,
indicates more than that has been applied to the device. Our ShockWatch,
for
example, was set to around 10 G's. Which was considered to be enough
to damage the computer. (I wasn't in on the details of this, but the
guy running the program, showed me what they were doing.) Things like
an SSD, they could take a lot larger number than that, so you would pick
a recording device with a larger threshold. In our case, the ShockWatch
was "low tech". It was just a dye capsule, and the capsule would break
and you would see a color change through a plastic window, if the product
was abused. So it's about as high tech, as an electrical fuse :-) And
presumably, cheap to add as well.

Laptop hard drives, have a dynamic G sensor, which detects when the
laptop is in "free fall". If dropped from three feet, with the
power applied, laptops equipped with that feature, can "park
the heads" before the laptop hits the floor. It takes both
the right kind of hard drive, as well as code to run it, to
make that work. The idea is, with the heads parked, the head won't
"bounce" off the platter and leave a mark. If enough shock is
applied, the head can snap off.



Interesting. So for all we know, there could be some kind of detector
within the laptop that will indicate a minor fall took place and they
could use that to invalidate the warranty. Still, given that the
consequences of my little incident were so minor in terms of the
usability of the computer, I'm inclined to suspect that no significant
damage was done.

I don't know what to do. I really don't want to lose use of the laptop
for two or three weeks and, if anything, I suspect they are
underestimating the time involved. I think the store is probably telling
me what has proven to a duration that most customers will accept. Once
they have the computer, they can always encounter "unexpected delays" of
one kind of another and hang on to it longer.

It's really not that big a problem so I'll probably just live with it,
just the way you don't go to the body shop and repaint major portions of
your car over one small ding.


--
Rhino

On 2013-04-14 03:06, Lars wrote:
Previously, on Usenet Rhino
wrote:

The more I think about this, the more reluctant I am to try to mess with
the laptop. It's basically the old "if it works, don't fix it"
principle.

I must admit to being the opposite on that one. Whatever gadget I have
I like to know what it looks like inside and how to fix minor
problems.

My second laptop was an IBM Thinkpad, used, and I was lucky to find
that IBM had all sorts of manuals online. There were very detailed
instructions on how to disassemble the many various models and exact
spare part numbers etc, making it reasonably doable to work on their
Thinkpads. That is one big reason why I have since kept buying
Thinkpads. For a while I had 12 working units and a few more that I
had cannibalized.

Since years I often help friends with their computers and whenever
someone is talking about getting a laptop I tell them if they get a
Thinkpad I will always help out.

I really think you should try to find the service manual for your Asus
and see that it is probably not all that difficult to have a peek
inside.

You may want to start having a look at this thread;
http://tinyurl.com/cj2dflt

Thank you, Lars.

I've always envied the ability of others to fix things themselves and
have long aspired to doing the same. Unfortunately, my talents are not
the same as my aspirations ;-)

I've set out to repair things myself on several occasions and have had
problems most of the time, problems that only worsened the existing
situation and made it more expensive and/or time-consuming to resolve.
This has somewhat sapped my confidence and made me skeptical about my
ability to successfully fix my sticky key. I'm therefore inclined to
live with it, although I'm tempted to send it to the manufacturer for
service.

I read the thread you cited and just sent an email to ASUS North America
tech support asking for a technical manual. If I am able to get that and
the repair looks simple enough, I might give it a try if I can do so
without having to acquire expensive tools that I don't have.

--
Rhino

Rhino wrote:

If anything, I suspect they are underestimating the time involved. I
think the store is probably telling me what has proven to a duration
that most customers will accept.

You are wise beyond your years :-)

Yes, that could happen. Asus repair time could go from
three to eight weeks. In the eight weeks case, you'd
already be chasing them to find out what happened to it,
and the extra time is for them to dig up something to send
you.

Any time a computer leaves your hands, do a backup of the
hard drive. Even though a keyboard is required, just about
anything can happen to it. Hard drives get erased by repair
facilities, as the clueless can be working there.

Computers even get lost, when sent for repair. It happens.

You will need an RMA number, before sending it to them.
The RMA number has to be written on the outside of the box,
so the shipment will be accepted. The RMA number proves
they're ready and waiting for your returned product.
They're expecting it. They will not accepted un-announced
shipments. With Asus, you fill out a web form, to get an
RMA number.

If the company had repair depots in major centers, and it
didn't require boxing up, maybe things would be different.
It's possible Asus has a single repair place (like in California).
I really haven't researched them, for that sort of thing.

I also don't know, if it's true that the "store has no warranty",
and it's "manufacturer warranty all the way". If you could
get the repair done locally, it would be a simpler matter
of just ordering a keyboard for it.

Have a look around here, and see if your keyboard is available.
If you could get a service manual for the laptop, you might be
able to locate a part number for the keyboard. In the keyboard
listing here, I don't see a "compatibility" list with each
item. Still, at least this is a source of keyboards, even if
you don't know whether it's the right one.

http://us.estore.asus.com/

http://us.estore.asus.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=53

Paul