2nd build - after 5 years

On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 12:17:38 -0700, Tom Thompson
wrote:

Cooler was ~$70 US

Been awhile since I looked for reviews. They were running anywhere
from sales at $40-ish and up then. Probably would've bitten (hey, I'm
game) if ever I'd seen one reach $30.

Off to get some Thermal paste this afternoon. If no better I'll try the stock cooler.

Or regroup if you don't think the self-contained water unit is going
to cut it. There's a whole generation of seriously new
air/heatwick-action heatsinks out there for a whole new generation of
CPUs I haven't approached. $70 should buy two of them, acceptable
units, at some discount from others commanding $50 or more. To me
it's a potential of two or three, a few degrees off from spending
twice as much for something I may never intend, actually, to run all
that rigorously.

Messes me up, my last one, when culling over Fleabay for everything
that would still fit in my socket AMD2. Settled on a used 80-ish watt
AMD x2 4000 for $15US or something rediculous. Along with a couple
Gig of system memory modules. Heh - the MB chipset's temps now tend
to push 140F. The CPU, meanwhile, I've got cooled with another
oversized aftermarket, though not, per se, a monster-sized
CoolerMaster. Hardly reaches 115F for the most for getting lucky
finding that on FleaBay for a song and dance - $10, I think. Tell
you, I've never skimped on a well-reviewed CPU heatsink setup. Same
goes for MB/PS selections. Keep them sometimes for years and years.
But this MB chipset heat is a new one on me. Never seen one that ran
so high. (SpeedFan software monitoring on a sensor likely for
Gigabyte's onboard Intel video chipset if not one of the CPU's support
bridges.)

In article , says...

On 8/8/2014 11:07 PM, Tom Thompson wrote:


Just finished assembling my 2nd build. Consists of an ASUS Z97-PRO MB,
an i7-4790K, the lower half of a Cooler Master HAF Stacker 935, 32Gig
Ram, GTX770 video card and a double fan Thermaltak 3.0 water cooler for
the CPU. Power for the cooler comes from a motherboard USB header and
the cooler fans are run from motherboard fan connectors.

To my relief, system came up initially, passed POST, properly identified
the RAM and SSD and went into the bios. Looked good except the CPU temp
displayed in the bios kept rising. All fans are running (especially the
2 for the water cooler). CPU temp climbs and finally tops out at 88
degrees C. Turned it off and tried again with the same result.

Possibilities: I think the Water cooler pump is running but my hearing
isn't the best and is it adequately connected to the CPU by the thermal
coating provided on the Water Cooler pump head? Didn't want to crank
the screws down too tightly for fear of damage.... Stock cooler still
in the box. Is the stock coated thermal paste on the cooler pump head
reliable? I have built one other system years ago and later updated
the stock cooler to a big tower air cooler with good results. Try stock
cooler?

Suggestions??

TIA

Tom

I assembled the same system and had no such issues using the stock cooler.

I have mine on this case.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...n_4aAuVj8P8HAQ

I like the open case so much I am going to use this:

AeroCool StrikeX-Air Black SECC Open Case Computer Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0809034 711:s

Drake.

OK, on with the show... went to Frys and purchased

"ZALMAN ZM - STG1"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118010

Removed the water cooler pumphead/heatsink. The original included stuff
appears to have spread out properly. Cleaned/Treated both surfaces with
the Zalman STG and reinstalled. Temp still rises and holds at 88C.
This time (guess I didn't notice the first time) the Motherboard seemed
like it was trying to help buy substantially lowering the CPU voltage.
To no avail.

Whipped out my $6 stethascope but really couldn't tell if the pump was
running. Tried the screwdriver trick that was suggested here as well
but couldn't really tell. Pump is supposed to be getting power from a
MB USB header so I swapped USB headers with the other one I know was
working. No joy.

Next step... Take off the water cooler and install the OEM fan cooler.

Tom

On 8/9/2014 3:24 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 14:45:07 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

I just fired it up to be sure and I'm about 40c.

That's one sweet ambiently running i7-4790K with core temps you've
got. Nothing at all like my earliest of dual core P4's (2x 2.6GHz),
running at ambience to the room temperature of 90F with a CoolerMaster
Hyper 212+ attached.

Good enough to a grapefruit-sized air cooler, though I've seen them
grown head-sized in a climate around these parts.

Both computers I have are without one of their side panels.
Compliments as well on your choice of cases. Hadn't seen one before
the NewEgg link - noteworthy and I do kinda like it. (I still use
just one of the larger 200mm fans, throttled reasonably down, in front
of each of my plattered disk arrays;- although I'll do as much even
while running dual-slotted 3.5 HDD SATA docking stations with a cute
little 115V fan from WallyMart.)

After running it all day the temp has settled down to 32c. I have had
the A/C running so everything in the room is rather cool. I think it
helps not to have any HDDs. They always keep things hot inside the
standard case. No heat from SSDs though. I'll never use a HDD again
unless it's external and at least USB3.

On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 21:51:47 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

After running it all day the temp has settled down to 32c. I have had
the A/C running so everything in the room is rather cool. I think it
helps not to have any HDDs. They always keep things hot inside the
standard case. No heat from SSDs though. I'll never use a HDD again
unless it's external and at least USB3.


Heh. I've a stack of them now, platters, somewhere between
10-15TByes. Each in dedicated, thick plastic 3.5 HDD storage cases I
picked up from Singapore. They're great for everything between A-Z.
Been collecting programs so long, it'll take a 175G partition on the
new 250G SSD coming in to hold them. But, I'll get rid of, replace an
ancient 10- or 15-year-old Seagate P_ATA 250G with the new SSD drive.
Still be keeping a 640G plattered WD "between" two SSDs for a
processing/holding "tank." I also regularly stream OS backups from a
legacy DOS boot into as old a Norton Ghost DOS version ("hardening" an
OS only goes so far with my abilities/usages). Gives me a real kick
seeing a well-organized XP restored in 45 seconds;... Whatever might
turn amiss ain't likely to stay that way for long (knock on wood).
Also keep the stored program partition all compressed and well
organized, (indexed off embedded small file descriptors to the tune of
some 250,000 files &then some - whew), so they'll be no more churning
once on a SSD for further manipulations/tweaks.

'Bout time I added another copy of that particular partition, which
the 250G HDD will serve, for backup purposes (my stack of "backup"
DVDs is getting more and more appealing, these days, as a Q80 backup
unit and shoebox full of tapes.)

Got an extra slot. Probably what I need to do is break down and buy a
PCI USB3 adaptor one of these days and try some that action.

Tom Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 20:07:33 -0700, Tom Thompson
wrote:

Just finished assembling my 2nd build. Consists of an ASUS Z97-PRO MB,
an i7-4790K, the lower half of a Cooler Master HAF Stacker 935, 32Gig
Ram, GTX770 video card and a double fan Thermaltak 3.0 water cooler for
the CPU. Power for the cooler comes from a motherboard USB header and
the cooler fans are run from motherboard fan connectors.

To my relief, system came up initially, passed POST, properly identified
the RAM and SSD and went into the bios. Looked good except the CPU temp
displayed in the bios kept rising. All fans are running (especially the
2 for the water cooler). CPU temp climbs and finally tops out at 88
degrees C. Turned it off and tried again with the same result.


Tom, Thank you for sharing your experience. I have been considering
building a system with the same CPU and MB.
While I was reading CPU reviews, the $35 cooler, Cooler Master Hyper 212
EVO came up several times (and leaned
me that way), but I would have guessed that your water cooler solution
would be superior (maybe not?). In any event,
I wanted to thank you and everyone who has contributed to this thread
for sharing his or her experience and knowledge!

Bill

Tom Thompson wrote:
In article , says...
On 8/8/2014 11:07 PM, Tom Thompson wrote:

Just finished assembling my 2nd build. Consists of an ASUS Z97-PRO MB,
an i7-4790K, the lower half of a Cooler Master HAF Stacker 935, 32Gig
Ram, GTX770 video card and a double fan Thermaltak 3.0 water cooler for
the CPU. Power for the cooler comes from a motherboard USB header and
the cooler fans are run from motherboard fan connectors.

To my relief, system came up initially, passed POST, properly identified
the RAM and SSD and went into the bios. Looked good except the CPU temp
displayed in the bios kept rising. All fans are running (especially the
2 for the water cooler). CPU temp climbs and finally tops out at 88
degrees C. Turned it off and tried again with the same result.

Possibilities: I think the Water cooler pump is running but my hearing
isn't the best and is it adequately connected to the CPU by the thermal
coating provided on the Water Cooler pump head? Didn't want to crank
the screws down too tightly for fear of damage.... Stock cooler still
in the box. Is the stock coated thermal paste on the cooler pump head
reliable? I have built one other system years ago and later updated
the stock cooler to a big tower air cooler with good results. Try stock
cooler?

Suggestions??

TIA

Tom

I assembled the same system and had no such issues using the stock cooler.

I have mine on this case.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...n_4aAuVj8P8HAQ

I like the open case so much I am going to use this:

AeroCool StrikeX-Air Black SECC Open Case Computer Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0809034 711:s

Drake.

OK, on with the show... went to Frys and purchased

"ZALMAN ZM - STG1"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118010

Removed the water cooler pumphead/heatsink. The original included stuff
appears to have spread out properly. Cleaned/Treated both surfaces with
the Zalman STG and reinstalled. Temp still rises and holds at 88C.
This time (guess I didn't notice the first time) the Motherboard seemed
like it was trying to help buy substantially lowering the CPU voltage.
To no avail.

Whipped out my $6 stethascope but really couldn't tell if the pump was
running. Tried the screwdriver trick that was suggested here as well
but couldn't really tell. Pump is supposed to be getting power from a
MB USB header so I swapped USB headers with the other one I know was
working. No joy.

Next step... Take off the water cooler and install the OEM fan cooler.

Tom

I used this as a reference for the water cooler. I don't
know if I got the right model or not.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835106220

It strikes me, that the pump intake line would have to be hooked to the
bottom of the cooler. If the radiator was inverted for example,
and the fluid level window wasn't absolutely full, the pump would be
pulling on air. I don't see any visible label in the Newegg pictures,
as to whether intake and outlet are marked or not. Some pumps, the
pump sits in the reservoir, leaving less to the imagination as to whether
the pump has fluid at the intake or not. This kind of hardware
probably isn't "six axis" and so some care must be used to ensure
the thing actually pumps. With your stethoscope, you might hear rotation,
but not be pumping anything.

The design is likely to be similar to my sump pump in the basement.
The impeller has no "suction" capability at all. The impeller
has to be offered fluid for it to work, and can't pull it uphill.
(But it can push it uphill, as long as the impeller is immersed.)
There are pump designs that can pull fluids uphill, but they
wear faster than the sump pump design would. Gear pumps and
piston pumps have more friction.

So I would cast a critical eye, at the physical layout. Does
the pump work if the barbs are pointing down ? Or must the
barbs be pointing up, with the reservoir elevated above
pump level ?

The rate with which the temperature shoots up to 88C, hints
at the thermal resistance or thermal mass involved. If the
processor had no TIM inside (between the silicon die and the
lid), the temperature would hit 88C in one second (before the
BIOS has even painted the screen). If you have a large air cooled
cooling solution, sometimes the metal on that takes half a minute
to warm up. As long as the rate of temperature rise is a bit
slow, it suggests the thermal path isn't broken right at the CPU.
But the heat might not be "leaving the area", if there is no
fluid flow, the hose is kinked, or whatever.

The pump fluid is more than just water. It will include anti-algae
agent (like dissolving copper chloride would kill a lot of
potential organic growth - that prevents the fill window
from getting clouded, or the pump fouled). Without some conditioners,
the water would be a mess after a year or so. I expect this product was
pre-filled, so there is no need to mess with fluids.

Paul

On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:54:51 -0700, Tom Thompson wrote:

Whipped out my $6 stethascope but really couldn't tell if the pump was
running. Tried the screwdriver trick that was suggested here as well
but couldn't really tell. Pump is supposed to be getting power from a
MB USB header so I swapped USB headers with the other one I know was
working. No joy.

What does the software say the pump and fan speeds are? Since it
connects to USB a header I'm assuming it also comes with software to
monitor the speeds and temperatures. It doesn't have a fan connector
for the pump to go into the CPU fan socket as well does it! Without a
CPU fan speed signal I wouldn't expect it to boot.

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed http://www.500kmh.com/

On 8/9/2014 10:52 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 21:51:47 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

After running it all day the temp has settled down to 32c. I have had
the A/C running so everything in the room is rather cool. I think it
helps not to have any HDDs. They always keep things hot inside the
standard case. No heat from SSDs though. I'll never use a HDD again
unless it's external and at least USB3.


Heh. I've a stack of them now, platters, somewhere between
10-15TByes. Each in dedicated, thick plastic 3.5 HDD storage cases I
picked up from Singapore. They're great for everything between A-Z.
Been collecting programs so long, it'll take a 175G partition on the
new 250G SSD coming in to hold them. But, I'll get rid of, replace an
ancient 10- or 15-year-old Seagate P_ATA 250G with the new SSD drive.
Still be keeping a 640G plattered WD "between" two SSDs for a
processing/holding "tank." I also regularly stream OS backups from a
legacy DOS boot into as old a Norton Ghost DOS version ("hardening" an
OS only goes so far with my abilities/usages). Gives me a real kick
seeing a well-organized XP restored in 45 seconds;... Whatever might
turn amiss ain't likely to stay that way for long (knock on wood).
Also keep the stored program partition all compressed and well
organized, (indexed off embedded small file descriptors to the tune of
some 250,000 files &then some - whew), so they'll be no more churning
once on a SSD for further manipulations/tweaks.

'Bout time I added another copy of that particular partition, which
the 250G HDD will serve, for backup purposes (my stack of "backup"
DVDs is getting more and more appealing, these days, as a Q80 backup
unit and shoebox full of tapes.)

Got an extra slot. Probably what I need to do is break down and buy a
PCI USB3 adaptor one of these days and try some that action.

PCI to USB3? Can we say "Bottleneck"? Maybe you might try a network
card. That might even be faster. Maybe if you put one computer on a
shelf it might run down hill to the other one on the bottom. Capillary
action or osmosis might also work. Have you tried a funnel?

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 05:43:40 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

PCI to USB3? Can we say "Bottleneck"? Maybe you might try a network
card. That might even be faster. Maybe if you put one computer on a
shelf it might run down hill to the other one on the bottom. Capillary
action or osmosis might also work. Have you tried a funnel?

Here's 75 people and what they've to say...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketfi...1218220380458&

Forgot about that smaller PCI-e slot (x4 or x1 - never used it?), so I
should have two instead of one extra. Of course I'd need newer USB3
devices, USB3 pendrives and a USB3 3.5 dual-slotted external docking
station.

How can there be a bottleneck over improvements 75 people are
realizing on older systems for an under-$20 PCI board?

If a funnel will do it for you, that's cool, though don't you think
I'd have a better chance based on those linked reviews?

On 8/10/2014 10:02 AM, Flasherly wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 05:43:40 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

PCI to USB3? Can we say "Bottleneck"? Maybe you might try a network
card. That might even be faster. Maybe if you put one computer on a
shelf it might run down hill to the other one on the bottom. Capillary
action or osmosis might also work. Have you tried a funnel?

Here's 75 people and what they've to say...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketfi...1218220380458&

Forgot about that smaller PCI-e slot (x4 or x1 - never used it?), so I
should have two instead of one extra. Of course I'd need newer USB3
devices, USB3 pendrives and a USB3 3.5 dual-slotted external docking
station.

How can there be a bottleneck over improvements 75 people are
realizing on older systems for an under-$20 PCI board?

If a funnel will do it for you, that's cool, though don't you think
I'd have a better chance based on those linked reviews?



This statement was the one I was responding to.

"Got an extra slot. Probably what I need to do is break down and buy a
PCI USB3 adaptor one of these days and try some that action."

It also depends on the motherboard as I tried a PCI-e card in mine and
was unable to get the USB3 ports to funcion. I also tried a USB3 hub
that failed.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/artic...-Express/190/4