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Removable Drive Bays



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 8th 03, 06:34 PM
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Removable Drive Bays


John H wrote in message
...

Anyone have any recommendations for
removable IDE drive bays on a home system?


I recommend they all be avoided and
firewire external drives be used instead.

With firewire you do have a proper formal
standard and not a monsterous kludge.

I see prices ranging from $12 plastic bays,
http://www.mycableshop.com/sku/BAYATA100.htm


$29 for the aluminum/plastic ICY Dock MB123
http://www.megahaus.com/Itemdesc.asp?CartId={354260D0-A013-4D9E-A077-0E029260238D}&ic=MB123%2DAK&Tp=


and a dear $79 for the DataPort V
http://www.megahaus.com/Customkititems.asp?CartId={354260D0-A013-4D9E-A077-0E029260238D}&kc=DP2200A66%2DKIT


That's quite a price range. Are the cheap ones junk?


Basically.

One thing I can't see from the pictures, is there a
gaping hole when the HD is out or does a cover pop up?


Pops down usually.

Does the fan run with no drive inserted ?


Normally not.


  #2  
Old December 10th 03, 12:24 AM
Andy Axnot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John H." wrote in message
...
Anyone have any recommendations for removable IDE drive bays on a home
system?

Thanks --JH


I see Rod Speed has technical objections to these, and I have heard similar
objections from other technically savvy people.

Well, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Not knowing any better, I use the
cheap (about $8) mobile racks from Genica, available at, for instance:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210

I have used these for several years, mostly with Win98SE, without any great
problems that I'm aware of. There were a couple of instances of particular
computers not finding particular drives on boot up. That is, a particular
(usually older) hard drive might not be detected in one computer while
another computer found it. I don't know why this was and didn't have the
time to hunt down an explanation. Perhaps one will be offered in this
thread. Mostly I have had no problems moving data from one computer to
another, and friends and I will occasionally swap data this way.

I use them basically for backups and Ghost images. I then remove the trays
and store them in a closet. I do not attempt to hot swap them (i.e., insert
or remove with power applied). I insert or remove trays with the computer
powered down. When I insert a tray and power up the computer, the OS finds
the drive and its partitions are available.

These racks I use are quite cheap and I don't think they would stand up to
abuse, and they don't help drive heat dissipation any. Maybe the aluminum
racks would be better in this regard. Still, these do the job for me. I
have transferred data among computers using them, restored back to a known
good state from a Ghost image, etc., so I'm satisfied.

Andy



  #3  
Old December 10th 03, 03:20 PM
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Andy Axnot" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...
Anyone have any recommendations for removable IDE drive bays on a home
system?

Thanks --JH


I see Rod Speed has technical objections to these, and I have heard

similar
objections from other technically savvy people.

Well, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Not knowing any better, I use the
cheap (about $8) mobile racks from Genica, available at, for instance:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210

I have used these for several years, mostly with Win98SE, without any

great
problems that I'm aware of. There were a couple of instances of

particular
computers not finding particular drives on boot up. That is, a particular
(usually older) hard drive might not be detected in one computer while
another computer found it. I don't know why this was and didn't have the
time to hunt down an explanation. Perhaps one will be offered in this
thread. Mostly I have had no problems moving data from one computer to
another, and friends and I will occasionally swap data this way.

I use them basically for backups and Ghost images. I then remove the

trays
and store them in a closet. I do not attempt to hot swap them (i.e.,

insert
or remove with power applied). I insert or remove trays with the computer
powered down. When I insert a tray and power up the computer, the OS

finds
the drive and its partitions are available.

These racks I use are quite cheap and I don't think they would stand up to
abuse, and they don't help drive heat dissipation any. Maybe the aluminum
racks would be better in this regard. Still, these do the job for me. I
have transferred data among computers using them, restored back to a

known
good state from a Ghost image, etc., so I'm satisfied.

Andy


I'm with Andy. They are cheap, and the transfer rate is way higher than a
USB2
or firewire connected drive.

I've hotswapped mine under XP with no problems (by disabling within Device
Manager).

Mine are the ViPower ATA/133 IDE cadies (plastic). They have 3 fans, so heat
doesn't seem to be an issue.



  #4  
Old December 10th 03, 06:37 PM
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John" wrote in message ...

"Andy Axnot" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...
Anyone have any recommendations for removable IDE drive bays on a home
system?

Thanks --JH


I see Rod Speed has technical objections to these, and I have heard

similar
objections from other technically savvy people.

Well, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Not knowing any better, I use the
cheap (about $8) mobile racks from Genica, available at, for instance:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210

I have used these for several years, mostly with Win98SE, without any

great
problems that I'm aware of. There were a couple of instances of

particular
computers not finding particular drives on boot up. That is, a particular
(usually older) hard drive might not be detected in one computer while
another computer found it. I don't know why this was and didn't have the
time to hunt down an explanation. Perhaps one will be offered in this
thread. Mostly I have had no problems moving data from one computer to
another, and friends and I will occasionally swap data this way.

I use them basically for backups and Ghost images. I then remove the

trays
and store them in a closet. I do not attempt to hot swap them (i.e.,

insert
or remove with power applied). I insert or remove trays with the computer
powered down. When I insert a tray and power up the computer, the OS

finds
the drive and its partitions are available.

These racks I use are quite cheap and I don't think they would stand up to
abuse, and they don't help drive heat dissipation any. Maybe the aluminum
racks would be better in this regard. Still, these do the job for me. I
have transferred data among computers using them, restored back to a

known
good state from a Ghost image, etc., so I'm satisfied.


I'm with Andy. They are cheap, and the transfer rate
is way higher than a USB2 or firewire connected drive.


Thats overstating it with firewire. Higher, yes, but not way higher.

I'd rather have a proper standard used than a massive kludge myself.

I've hotswapped mine under XP with no
problems (by disabling within Device Manager).


And thats another area where the swap is done more elegantly with say firewire.

Mine are the ViPower ATA/133 IDE cadies (plastic).
They have 3 fans, so heat doesn't seem to be an issue.



  #5  
Old December 10th 03, 08:05 PM
Timothy Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Andy Axnot" wrote:.

Well, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Not knowing any better,
I use the cheap (about $8) mobile racks from Genica,
available at, for instance:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210

I have used these for several years, mostly with Win98SE,
without any great problems that I'm aware of....


Andy, what was the data rate of the fastest drive you used?
It's possible that the "kludge" and the spec "flout" that some
refer to only has a deleterious effect with the faster drive interfaces.
Also, do you use the standard 80-wire ribbon cable, the standard
40-wire ribbon cable, or some length of "round" cable?

The student computer labs at the local campus of the University
of California use Kingwin removeable drive caddies, and the lab
technicians say that there have been no problems.

*TimDaniels*
  #6  
Old December 11th 03, 03:40 AM
Andy Axnot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
...

"Andy Axnot" wrote:.

Well, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Not knowing any better,
I use the cheap (about $8) mobile racks from Genica,
available at, for instance:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210

I have used these for several years, mostly with Win98SE,
without any great problems that I'm aware of....


Andy, what was the data rate of the fastest drive you used?
It's possible that the "kludge" and the spec "flout" that some
refer to only has a deleterious effect with the faster drive interfaces.
Also, do you use the standard 80-wire ribbon cable, the standard
40-wire ribbon cable, or some length of "round" cable?

The student computer labs at the local campus of the University
of California use Kingwin removeable drive caddies, and the lab
technicians say that there have been no problems.

*TimDaniels*


Hmmm... that's interesting. There seems to be a lot of us using these
caddies.

Well, I have used up to ATA133 drives. The IDE cables I use are 80 wire
ribbon cables, as are the short internal cables inside the trays. I have
never tested the data transfer in any way other than normal use.

There is really nothing esoteric about these racks or caddies. They
essentially serve as a short IDE "extension cord". A hard drive in one of
these racks is connected to the regular IDE cable through an additional 2 or
3 inches of 80 wire IDE cable and the Centronics connector that connects the
removable and fixed parts of the rack.

In practice, this seems to present no problems. But I can certainly
understand that it might be stretching the standards just a bit and that it
*could* risk data integrity by lengthening the cable run a bit and adding an
2 additional connections. It might be that there is some slight increase in
the occurrence of data corruption. I don't know enough about how this is
handled by either the hardware or the software to know if this could be
significant.

Interesting thread, this.

Andy



  #7  
Old December 11th 03, 05:02 AM
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Andy Axnot wrote in
message ...
Timothy Daniels wrote
Andy Axnot wrote


Well, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Not knowing
any better, I use the cheap (about $8) mobile
racks from Genica, available at, for instance:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210


I have used these for several years, mostly with Win98SE,
without any great problems that I'm aware of....


Andy, what was the data rate of the fastest drive you used?
It's possible that the "kludge" and the spec "flout" that some
refer to only has a deleterious effect with the faster drive interfaces.
Also, do you use the standard 80-wire ribbon cable, the standard
40-wire ribbon cable, or some length of "round" cable?


The student computer labs at the local campus of the University
of California use Kingwin removeable drive caddies, and the lab
technicians say that there have been no problems.


But you did say that they arent exactly high performance drives.

Hmmm... that's interesting. There seems
to be a lot of us using these caddies.


Well, I have used up to ATA133 drives. The IDE cables
I use are 80 wire ribbon cables, as are the short internal
cables inside the trays. I have never tested the data
transfer in any way other than normal use.


And you may get quite a surprise if you
checked the error rate seen on those cables.

There is really nothing esoteric about these racks or caddies.


Yes, but they do flout the specs of the ATA ribbon cable.

They essentially serve as a short IDE "extension cord".


Which isnt even allowed for in the ATA standard.

A hard drive in one of these racks is connected to the
regular IDE cable through an additional 2 or 3 inches
of 80 wire IDE cable and the Centronics connector that
connects the removable and fixed parts of the rack.


Which also flouts the ATA standard.

In practice, this seems to present no problems.


You admit you havent tested whether there are problems.

Plenty have found problems with removable drive bays.

But I can certainly understand that it might
be stretching the standards just a bit


A hell of a lot, actually, particularly that extra connector
which was never designed for that sort of use.

and that it *could* risk data integrity
by lengthening the cable run a bit


Thats not the problem.

and adding an 2 additional connections.


Thats the problem.

It might be that there is some slight increase
in the occurrence of data corruption.


It can be rather more than slight.

I don't know enough about how this is
handled by either the hardware or the
software to know if this could be significant.


It can see the OS decide that the drive is flakey.

Interesting thread, this.



  #8  
Old December 11th 03, 09:15 AM
Timothy Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Rod Speed" wrote:

The student computer labs at the local campus of the
University of California use Kingwin removeable drive
caddies, and the lab technicians say that there have
been no problems.


But you did say that they arent exactly high performance drives.



Correct. All I know is their rotational speed - 5400 rpm.


*TimDaniels*
  #9  
Old December 11th 03, 05:15 PM
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
...

"Andy Axnot" wrote:.

Well, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Not knowing any better,
I use the cheap (about $8) mobile racks from Genica,
available at, for instance:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210

I have used these for several years, mostly with Win98SE,
without any great problems that I'm aware of....


Andy, what was the data rate of the fastest drive you used?
It's possible that the "kludge" and the spec "flout" that some
refer to only has a deleterious effect with the faster drive interfaces.
Also, do you use the standard 80-wire ribbon cable, the standard
40-wire ribbon cable, or some length of "round" cable?

The student computer labs at the local campus of the University
of California use Kingwin removeable drive caddies, and the lab
technicians say that there have been no problems.

*TimDaniels*


I transfer data at 2GB/minute daily (according to Norton Ghost).

The caddies seem to handle that just fine.


  #10  
Old December 11th 03, 07:28 PM
Timothy Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Timothy Daniels" replied tentatively:
"Rod Speed" wrote:

The student computer labs at the local campus of the
University of California use Kingwin removeable drive
caddies, and the lab technicians say that there have
been no problems.


But you did say that they arent exactly high performance drives.



Correct. All I know is their rotational speed - 5400 rpm.



I just called the lab manager, and the channel speeds are
ATA/100, and they've been upgraded to 7200 rpm hard drives
in the Kingwin removeable caddies. The only problems reported
were with the 12" 80-wire ribbon HD cables that came with the
Dell computers - they were too short to reach the expansion
drive bays, and the lab had to substitute standard 18" cables.

Please don't interpret this to mean that all removeable caddy
installations will work as well. They're not part of the ATA specs,
and so their use is, essentially, one's own engineering. But I plan
to use them for backing up my HD, and I think they're a great
convenience.... along with round cables. :-)

*TimDaniels*
 




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