P4 vs Centrino? Which of these laptops?

I'm looking at two laptops at:
http://www.accessmicro.com/content/p...ction=NoteBook
(note: sometimes it takes a LONG time for the page to load.)

The two Intel laptops I'm looking at, one is a P4 and the other a
Mobile Centrino.
What's the difference? I ask because laptop A, the Centrino, is more
espensive, but laptop B, the P4, seems much more powerful...except the
Centrino has a 1MB L2 cache while the P4 has a 512KB L2.

Can anyone explain based on this why one would be more powerful than
the other?
Thanks! =)

M8080 Mobile-Intel Centrino
CPU: Centrino Mobile FSB 400MHz @ 1.3GHz CPU
CORE LOGIC: Montara - GM +ICH4 -M w/ 1MB L2 cache
RAM: DDR-SDRAM
VIDEO: Intel 82852/82855 64MB

G732-Intel Pentium 4
CPU: P4 Northwood 533 MHz FSB @ 2.2 GHz
CO 512KB L2 cache
RAM: DDR SO DIMM
VIDEO: ATI Mobility 9000 M9 64MB

Liam
druid -at- celticbear -dot- com

On 26 Jun 2003 06:56:25 -0700, (LRW) wrote:

I'm looking at two laptops at:
http://www.accessmicro.com/content/p...ction=NoteBook
(note: sometimes it takes a LONG time for the page to load.)

The two Intel laptops I'm looking at, one is a P4 and the other a
Mobile Centrino.
What's the difference? I ask because laptop A, the Centrino, is more
espensive, but laptop B, the P4, seems much more powerful...except the
Centrino has a 1MB L2 cache while the P4 has a 512KB L2.

Can anyone explain based on this why one would be more powerful than
the other?
Thanks! =)

M8080 Mobile-Intel Centrino
CPU: Centrino Mobile FSB 400MHz @ 1.3GHz CPU
CORE LOGIC: Montara - GM +ICH4 -M w/ 1MB L2 cache
RAM: DDR-SDRAM
VIDEO: Intel 82852/82855 64MB

G732-Intel Pentium 4
CPU: P4 Northwood 533 MHz FSB @ 2.2 GHz
CO 512KB L2 cache
RAM: DDR SO DIMM
VIDEO: ATI Mobility 9000 M9 64MB

Common wisdom: 1.6GHz centrino=2.4GHz P4, so 1.3GHz=2GHz P4.

Centrino executes (on the average) more instructions per clock than
the P4.

In order to be branded Centrino, computers must come with 802.11b, a
feature you'll be sorry for leaving out if you do. Odd that the web
description mentions this feature only by way of the "built-in
wireless antenna".

Main selling point of the Centrino: lower power consumption, longer
battery life. Unless you're using your notebook as a portable desktop
replacement, longer battery life trumps a 10% difference in speed any
day.

Notebook purchased for travel and other mobile use: Centrino.

Notebook purchased as portable desktop replacement: P4.

RM

"Robert Myers" wrote in message
...
On 26 Jun 2003 06:56:25 -0700, (LRW) wrote:

I'm looking at two laptops at:
http://www.accessmicro.com/content/p...ction=NoteBook
(note: sometimes it takes a LONG time for the page to load.)

The two Intel laptops I'm looking at, one is a P4 and the other a
Mobile Centrino.
What's the difference? I ask because laptop A, the Centrino, is more
espensive, but laptop B, the P4, seems much more powerful...except the
Centrino has a 1MB L2 cache while the P4 has a 512KB L2.

Can anyone explain based on this why one would be more powerful than
the other?
Thanks! =)

M8080 Mobile-Intel Centrino
CPU: Centrino Mobile FSB 400MHz @ 1.3GHz CPU
CORE LOGIC: Montara - GM +ICH4 -M w/ 1MB L2 cache
RAM: DDR-SDRAM
VIDEO: Intel 82852/82855 64MB

G732-Intel Pentium 4
CPU: P4 Northwood 533 MHz FSB @ 2.2 GHz
CO 512KB L2 cache
RAM: DDR SO DIMM
VIDEO: ATI Mobility 9000 M9 64MB

Common wisdom: 1.6GHz centrino=2.4GHz P4, so 1.3GHz=2GHz P4.

Centrino executes (on the average) more instructions per clock than
the P4.

In order to be branded Centrino, computers must come with 802.11b, a
feature you'll be sorry for leaving out if you do. Odd that the web
description mentions this feature only by way of the "built-in
wireless antenna".

Main selling point of the Centrino: lower power consumption, longer
battery life. Unless you're using your notebook as a portable desktop
replacement, longer battery life trumps a 10% difference in speed any
day.

Notebook purchased for travel and other mobile use: Centrino.

Notebook purchased as portable desktop replacement: P4.

RM

You should also consider AMD laptops with 802.11b functionality. AMD has
been architecturally doing what Centrino has just begun to do for some time
now.

ken k

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:03:05 -0400, JK wrote:

snip
The Centrino system has a processor that is only 1.3 ghz.
Although it will probably run faster than a 1.3 ghz Pentium 4,
it is probably much slower than an Athlon XP2000+ in most
software.

While a computer architect I very much admire at AMD would be glad to
know that people are championing the cause of AMD processors for
mobile applications, this kind of statement really isn't helpful.

My guess, based on reading lots of benchmarks and understanding what I
do of the architectures of the chips involved, would be that the
performance of a 1.3 GHz Centrino and an Athlon XP2000+ would be
indistinguishable to most users, and that benchmarks would confirm
that their performance is comparable.

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm lists the "typical power
dissipation of an Athlon XP2000+ as 62.5 watts and the "thermal design
power of 1.3GHz Banias (the processor part of the Centrino set) as 22
wattts.

AMD processors are always worth considering, but overstating the case
really doesn't help anyone, including AMD. In particular, trying to
push Athlon XP's as a drop-in, low-cost replacement for Centrino is
something I don't think even AMD marketeers would do.

AMD is working on its own innovative low-power designs. I don't think
the Athlon XP is one of them. Don't steal their thunder by trying to
help them out with misplaced cheerleading.

RM

Robert Myers wrote in message . ..
On 26 Jun 2003 06:56:25 -0700, (LRW) wrote:

Common wisdom: 1.6GHz centrino=2.4GHz P4, so 1.3GHz=2GHz P4.

Centrino executes (on the average) more instructions per clock than
the P4.


Thanks for the feedback! But, "common wisdom"? I didn't know that.
(One of the reasons I'm asking about the differences.) Why is it that
the Centrino executes more instructions? Does it have to do with the
double sized L2 cache?

I have heard that AMD does the same thing which is why they can
outperform Pentiums of the same speed even with their lower FSB. (Do I
have that right?)

Well, this is probably 75/25 desktop replacement. Which is one reason
that ATI Moility 9000 video card is very appealing.

Thanks again for the reply! =)

Robert Myers wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:03:05 -0400, JK wrote:

snip
The Centrino system has a processor that is only 1.3 ghz.
Although it will probably run faster than a 1.3 ghz Pentium 4,
it is probably much slower than an Athlon XP2000+ in most
software.

While a computer architect I very much admire at AMD would be glad to
know that people are championing the cause of AMD processors for
mobile applications, this kind of statement really isn't helpful.

My guess, based on reading lots of benchmarks and understanding what I
do of the architectures of the chips involved, would be that the
performance of a 1.3 GHz Centrino and an Athlon XP2000+ would be
indistinguishable to most users, and that benchmarks would confirm
that their performance is comparable.

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm lists the "typical power
dissipation of an Athlon XP2000+ as 62.5 watts and the "thermal design
power of 1.3GHz Banias (the processor part of the Centrino set) as 22
wattts.

LOL! You looked up the power consumption for the desktop
XP2000+ Palomino.The mobile XP2200+ is listed as having a maximum
power consumption of 35 watts. There is no listing there for typical
power consumption. I see the mobile Pentium 4 2.2 ghz listed at
46.6 watts estimated max power dissipation, while the Pentium 4
desktop cpu has an estimated max power consumption of 73.4 watts
(thermal design power/.75) . OUCH! I would not want to have that in
my notebook. The vast majority of AMD based notebooks use mobile
Athlon XP processors, while the vast majority of Intel based notebooks
under $1300 use Celeron or desktop P4 processors.



AMD processors are always worth considering, but overstating the case
really doesn't help anyone, including AMD. In particular, trying to
push Athlon XP's as a drop-in, low-cost replacement for Centrino is
something I don't think even AMD marketeers would do.

That is funny! I would not consider the Centrino an adequate mobile
Athlon XP replacement, even if the high price of Centrino is ignored.




AMD is working on its own innovative low-power designs. I don't think
the Athlon XP is one of them. Don't steal their thunder by trying to
help them out with misplaced cheerleading.

There are low voltage XP-M processors up to XP2000+ for the thin and
light market if someone wants a thin notebook with long battery life.

http://www.crn.com/sections/Breaking...rticleID=42708



RM

"Kenneth A Kauffman" wrote in message ...

You should also consider AMD laptops with 802.11b functionality. AMD has
been architecturally doing what Centrino has just begun to do for some time
now.

ken k

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 802.11b is simply wireless networking, yes?
Can't you just add a wireless PCMCIA NIC and call it good?

Personally, I'm a huge AMD fan. I'm looking into this for my wife. =)

Thanks for the feedback!
Liam

"LRW" wrote in message
om...
"Kenneth A Kauffman" wrote in message
...

You should also consider AMD laptops with 802.11b functionality. AMD
has
been architecturally doing what Centrino has just begun to do for some
time
now.

ken k

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 802.11b is simply wireless networking, yes?
Can't you just add a wireless PCMCIA NIC and call it good?

Personally, I'm a huge AMD fan. I'm looking into this for my wife. =)

Thanks for the feedback!
Liam

Yes. But Centrino is not strictly a processor but a "chipset" which includes
specifications for built in 802.11b. So.. if you were to go "head to head"
looking at laptops, a Centrino machine will always provide 802.11b.
Therefor, comparing to anyother laptop 'feature for feature' you need to
consider cost of this functionality too.

ken k

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:22:02 -0400, Robert Myers
wrote:


In order to be branded Centrino, computers must come with 802.11b,

Centrino has to be Intel's 802.11b - there are other alternatives in
Pentium-M systems.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:38:52 -0400, Robert Myers
wrote:
AMD is working on its own innovative low-power designs. I don't think
the Athlon XP is one of them. Don't steal their thunder by trying to
help them out with misplaced cheerleading.

The Athlon XP-M has been available for months now.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??