80 pin v 40 pin drive and cable question

I have a question.

I recently went to visit a pc repair shop.

I was there about a job but thats a different story.

I was told something about cables and drives.

I cant remember exactly.

but along these lines.

either an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive will kill the 40 pin drive or a 40
pin cable on an 80 pin drive will kill the 80 pin drive.

can anyone clarify this as i had never heard it before.

as I do pc support I wouldnt want to corrupt a drive by accident.

If need be I would rather pay a few bucks to stock up on the 2 types of
cable.

"senn" wrote:

....
either an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive will kill the 40 pin drive
or a 40 pin cable on an 80 pin drive will kill the 80 pin drive.
....

Are you talking about ordinary hard disk drive cables?

I used to receive BIOS notifications that there was no 80 pin cable
installed. I took it as a performance advisory, not a warning. It did
not kill my hard disk drive.

Whatever the difference between a 40 pin drive and an 80 pin drive,
how are you going to know? I didn't even know that is supposed to be
a specification.





--
Writing the first dynamically timed systemwide macro recorder for
Windows XP. Please see (comp.windows.open-look). Coding help is
needed, using VC++ 7.

senn wrote:

I have a question.

I recently went to visit a pc repair shop.

I was there about a job but thats a different story.

I was told something about cables and drives.

I cant remember exactly.

but along these lines.

either an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive will kill the 40 pin drive or a
40 pin cable on an 80 pin drive will kill the 80 pin drive.

can anyone clarify this as i had never heard it before.

as I do pc support I wouldnt want to corrupt a drive by accident.

If need be I would rather pay a few bucks to stock up on the 2 types of
cable.

It'll kill the performance, as, I believe, Ultra DMA 66 and faster require
80 wire cables.

As for harming drives, I seriously doubt it. I've used 40 wire cables on
ATA100 drives before on an older computer and never had a problem.


--

Registered Linux user #378193

senn wrote:
I have a question.

I recently went to visit a pc repair shop.

I was there about a job but thats a different story.

I was told something about cables and drives.

I cant remember exactly.

but along these lines.

either an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive will kill the 40 pin drive or a 40
pin cable on an 80 pin drive will kill the 80 pin drive.

can anyone clarify this as i had never heard it before.

as I do pc support I wouldnt want to corrupt a drive by accident.

If need be I would rather pay a few bucks to stock up on the 2 types of
cable.



No, whoever told you that was wrong. It will force a drive to run at
ATA33 speeds rather than the ATA66/100/133 of which it may be capable of
running. This does not apply to CDROM drives IIRC, only to hard disk drives.

Ari

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"spodosaurus" wrote in message
...
senn wrote:
I have a question.

I recently went to visit a pc repair shop.

I was there about a job but thats a different story.

I was told something about cables and drives.

I cant remember exactly.

but along these lines.

either an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive will kill the 40 pin drive or a
40
pin cable on an 80 pin drive will kill the 80 pin drive.

can anyone clarify this as i had never heard it before.

as I do pc support I wouldnt want to corrupt a drive by accident.

If need be I would rather pay a few bucks to stock up on the 2 types of
cable.



No, whoever told you that was wrong. It will force a drive to run at
ATA33 speeds rather than the ATA66/100/133 of which it may be capable of
running. This does not apply to CDROM drives IIRC, only to hard disk
drives.

so,

if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it faster?

and will there be gradual data corruption due to different types?

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:16:51 +1000, "senn"
wrote:

if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it faster?

You can not attach an 80 PIN plug to a 40 PIN receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector.[*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.
[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

"Rich Webb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:16:51 +1000, "senn"
wrote:

if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it faster?

You can not attach an 80 PIN plug to a 40 PIN receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector.[*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.

ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to data
corruption or drive problems?

senn wrote:
"Rich Webb" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:16:51 +1000, "senn"
wrote:


if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it faster?

You can not attach an 80 PIN plug to a 40 PIN receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector.[*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.


ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to data
corruption or drive problems?



All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is capable
of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.

Cheers,

Ari


--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"spodosaurus" wrote in message
...
senn wrote:
"Rich Webb" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:16:51 +1000, "senn"
wrote:


if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it
faster?

You can not attach an 80 PIN plug to a 40 PIN receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector.[*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.


ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to
data
corruption or drive problems?



All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is capable
of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.

ari,

so from what youre saying an 80 conductor cable on a 40 conductor drive wont
cause problems either?

senn wrote:

"spodosaurus" wrote in message
...

senn wrote:

"Rich Webb" wrote in message
...


On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:16:51 +1000, "senn"
wrote:



if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it

faster?

You can not attach an 80 PIN plug to a 40 PIN receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector.[*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.


ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to

data

corruption or drive problems?



All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is capable
of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.


ari,

so from what youre saying an 80 conductor cable on a 40 conductor drive wont
cause problems either?



Correct: it won't cause problems.

And 80 conductor IDE cable has better electrical characteristics than a 40
conductor IDE cable. You don't 'have' to use it for UDMA33, although it's
recommended, but it's *required* for faster speeds.

The controller can tell which type of cable is being used and if it's 40
conductor then speeds will be limited to UDMA33, or less, regardless of the
hard drive's capability. So a UDMA100 drive will be operating UDMA33, or
less, on a 40 conductor cable. If you use an 80 conductor cable then the
drive's capability will set the speed (assuming everything else allows it)
so a UDMA100 drive will operate at UDMA100 speeds while a UDMA33 drive
would operate at UDMA33 speeds.