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#21
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"Ed" wrote Yeah, the more I think about it.... as usual AMD will have no choice but to follow what Intel sets as a standard, so the ATX layout could be totally obsolete a lot sooner then we may think. :0 BTX sort of reminds me of when Intel abandoned Socket-7 and AMD kept on using it and improved it (super socket-7). Motherboard makers were selling boards that had AT and ATX power plugs on them, EDO and DIMM ram slots, possibly even had AGP slots ? on them before finally getting fazed out by the ATX standards. I guess the same thing could happen again, I'd sure like to get at least another 2 years out of my $100+ Antec tower! Is there anything really stopping mobo makers from making AMD boards that fit a ATX case but support DDR2, the new hardware cards and PSUs? Hi, hehe here is an interesting report: *Intel Chipsets to Lack AGP Support?* www.anandtech.com/chipsets/showdoc.html?i=1953 If this is true, than I freely admit that I had *No Idea* that Alderwood and Grantsdale chipsets (Prescott Native platform) wouldn't support my shiny new Radeon 9800 AGP 8x. I can't believe that Intel will do that (will they?). Pretty much says what you said, that VIA and SiS will try and make a *Hybrid* board. Man, I don't remember such a time that all this new stuff was happening at the same time. I may just have to build a vanilla P4c *classic* and sit it out for a few years :P. Don't like the fact that you can't swap out part so easily. Wonder if they do these things to *force* people to buy more hardware? -- Wayne ][ |
#22
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Wayne Youngman wrote:
"Ed" wrote If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other choice. Hi, interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away *totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then all your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means that not one single component from your INTEL system will work with AMD? (hmm apart from Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today only the CPU is bound, you can swap memory and graphics cards between AMD & INTEL systems, not for long, you must choose! The switch-over from ISA to PCI, AT to ATX, PCI to AGP (for video cards) all took a couple of years at least. I've got a system that will go in an AT or ATX case, will accept PCI or ISA cards (and an AGP card), and another that will take SDRAM or EDO. This is exactly what will happen with BTX. There will be boards that will have both PCI and PCI-Express slots (and probably an ATX slot too). Granted they might be (marginally) more expensive than straight ATX or BTX boards, but they will exist because of the number of "legacy" devices around. It would be commercial suicide for a company to make a board (in 6 months time) that accepted no standard PCI cards and no AGP cards. Case in point: the IBM PS2 with it's microchannel bus. I'd say it'd be at least two years before you start to have to look hard for PCI or AGP supporting boards (assuming BTX doesn't die). And if BTX does take off, you can be sure that there will be AMD-cpu chipsets that will support it. -- Michael Brown www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open |
#23
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"Michael Brown" wrote The switch-over from ISA to PCI, AT to ATX, PCI to AGP (for video cards) all took a couple of years at least. I've got a system that will go in an AT or ATX case, will accept PCI or ISA cards (and an AGP card), and another that will take SDRAM or EDO. This is exactly what will happen with BTX. There will be boards that will have both PCI and PCI-Express slots (and probably an ATX slot too). Granted they might be (marginally) more expensive than straight ATX or BTX boards, but they will exist because of the number of "legacy" devices around. It would be commercial suicide for a company to make a board (in 6 months time) that accepted no standard PCI cards and no AGP cards. Case in point: the IBM PS2 with it's microchannel bus. I'd say it'd be at least two years before you start to have to look hard for PCI or AGP supporting boards (assuming BTX doesn't die). And if BTX does take off, you can be sure that there will be AMD-cpu chipsets that will support it. Hi, great reply there! Yes *Historically* that's how its worked out so far, and normally I would agree with what you said, but INTEL is *very* aware of AMD now, and may be taking swift action to pull their whole platform up-to-date. 2004 looks like it will be a very significant year in PC platforms, I thought the AMD side of things was getting messy, now it looks like INTEL are going for it too! At the end of the day I'm sure it will all be for the best, but for all us *enthusiasts* who build machines for friends/clients etc. . . we got our work cut out for us! what a learning curve, hehe and then we can get into 64-Bit computing :P -- Wayne ][ |
#24
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:04:30 -0500, "TomG"
wrote: and that is a *good* thing? -- Thomas Geery Network+ certified Tom, Stop top-posting replies.............. :-) I have to read down to the end to find out what you are talking about............ John Lewis ftp://geerynet.d2g.com ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!... over 120,000 FTP users served! ^^^^^^^ "Wayne Youngman" wrote in message ... "Ed" wrote If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other choice. Hi, interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away *totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then all your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means that not one single component from your INTEL system will work with AMD? (hmm apart from Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today only the CPU is bound, you can swap memory and graphics cards between AMD & INTEL systems, not for long, you must choose! You see where this is going if AMD stick to ATX. . . -- Wayne ][ |
#25
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Hi, when was the last time you had your Case *form-factor* changed? (4 years ago maybe?) when was the last time you had your PSU *form-factor* changed? (2 years ago maybe?) when was the last time you had your Graphics Card *form-factor* changed?(4 years ago maybe?) when was the last time you had your Memory *form-factor* changed?(4 years ago maybe?) when was the last time you had your PCI/Expansion Cards *form-factor* changed?(4 years ago maybe?) Please try and understand my posts before you give a *blanket* response people, what is happening here is *Exceptional* don't you see? when ever in your life have you ever seen something like this before? never. . .thought so! Bull**** - about 1980 - and it was far more exciting! http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/ice/4004thb.htm -- Mark H --- Frag on ! NF7-S v2.0 Win2k-sp4 WinXp-sp1a |
#26
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"Wayne Youngman" what is happening here is *Exceptional* don't you see? If you say so boss! |
#27
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A very good thing!
"John Lewis" wrote in message ... On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:04:30 -0500, "TomG" wrote: and that is a *good* thing? -- Thomas Geery Network+ certified Tom, Stop top-posting replies.............. :-) I have to read down to the end to find out what you are talking about............ John Lewis ftp://geerynet.d2g.com ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!... over 120,000 FTP users served! ^^^^^^^ "Wayne Youngman" wrote in message ... "Ed" wrote If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other choice. Hi, interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away *totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then all your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means that not one single component from your INTEL system will work with AMD? (hmm apart from Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today only the CPU is bound, you can swap memory and graphics cards between AMD & INTEL systems, not for long, you must choose! You see where this is going if AMD stick to ATX. . . -- Wayne ][ |
#28
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I always top post replies. always have with very few exceptions.
-- Thomas Geery Network+ certified ftp://geerynet.d2g.com ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!... over 120,000 FTP users served! ^^^^^^^ "John Lewis" wrote in message ... On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:04:30 -0500, "TomG" wrote: and that is a *good* thing? -- Thomas Geery Network+ certified Tom, Stop top-posting replies.............. :-) I have to read down to the end to find out what you are talking about............ John Lewis ftp://geerynet.d2g.com ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!... over 120,000 FTP users served! ^^^^^^^ "Wayne Youngman" wrote in message ... "Ed" wrote If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other choice. Hi, interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away *totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then all your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means that not one single component from your INTEL system will work with AMD? (hmm apart from Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today only the CPU is bound, you can swap memory and graphics cards between AMD & INTEL systems, not for long, you must choose! You see where this is going if AMD stick to ATX. . . -- Wayne ][ |
#29
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The switch-over from ISA to PCI, AT to ATX, PCI to AGP (for video cards) all took a couple of years at least. I've got a system that will go in an AT or ATX case, will accept PCI or ISA cards (and an AGP card), and another that will take SDRAM or EDO. This is exactly what will happen with BTX. There will be boards that will have both PCI and PCI-Express slots (and probably an ATX slot too). Granted they might be (marginally) more expensive than straight ATX or BTX boards, but they will exist because of the number of "legacy" devices around. It would be commercial suicide for a company to make a board (in 6 months time) that accepted no standard PCI cards and no AGP cards. Case in point: the IBM PS2 with it's microchannel bus. I'd say it'd be at least two years before you start to have to look hard for PCI or AGP supporting boards (assuming BTX doesn't die). And if BTX does take off, you can be sure that there will be AMD-cpu chipsets that will support it. Yea it's been this way since I can remember working on pc's (286's for me).. But if you look at the BTX standard (not yet adopted by anyone other than Intel, May it fall the way of the ITX Standard) then it's not going to allow (as easily) for some of these products to go into your standard pc.. It's more than a cunning ploy that the board now goes on the other side of the system .. Granted it might not be a big problem for board mfgr's.. I still think it's a much needed move, and i'll be happy to see AGP and PCI die.. I hate the idea of mixing cards in a system.. It's virtually a must now cause you have a hard time getting good PCI video cards.. If the BTX can deliver well for "Thermal" and "Airflow" requirements then it will def be adopted.. I would LOVE to see some good changes to allow me to cool my system (the Btx doesnt seem to hav ethem) .. I guess the big thing will be how it all gets adopted like you say.. will we have ATX12v/BTX Psu's & Cases rolling out the doors soon That'll be the sign that the industry has deided to take it and run |
#30
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:24:15 -0500, "TomG"
wrote: I always top post replies. always have with very few exceptions. Can't teach an old dog new tricks, I suppose... Even your sheep-acquaintances know that by now.............. John Lewis -- Thomas Geery Network+ certified ftp://geerynet.d2g.com ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!... over 120,000 FTP users served! ^^^^^^^ "John Lewis" wrote in message ... On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:04:30 -0500, "TomG" wrote: and that is a *good* thing? -- Thomas Geery Network+ certified Tom, Stop top-posting replies.............. :-) I have to read down to the end to find out what you are talking about............ John Lewis ftp://geerynet.d2g.com ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!... over 120,000 FTP users served! ^^^^^^^ "Wayne Youngman" wrote in message ... "Ed" wrote If you stick with AMD I'd bet an ATX setup today would be good for another 5 years, I just don't see AMD switching to the BTX layout anytime soon, unless ATX disappears overnight and they have no other choice. Hi, interesting point, What we may be seeing now is INTEL breaking away *totally*. What I mean by that is if you choose *INTEL Inside* then all your components will only work on an INTEL system. That means that not one single component from your INTEL system will work with AMD? (hmm apart from Hard-disks, and USB2.0 devices). Whereas today only the CPU is bound, you can swap memory and graphics cards between AMD & INTEL systems, not for long, you must choose! You see where this is going if AMD stick to ATX. . . -- Wayne ][ |
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