customer refused goods ordered

"Paul Hopwood" wrote in message
...
"Gaz" wrote:

A few weeks ago I recieved a phone call from a potential customer, asking
about the availability and pricing of second hand computers.

[snip]

next week. Today, he phoned me, and told me that because of the wait, he
didnt want any of it anymore, i asked why, he said that the time it took
was
to long etc, I apologised for the time, explained it was out of my
control,
and offered an upgrade of a free CD writer as a way of making it up.

Now then, in these circumstances, i am significantly out of pocket, is
the
customer liable for my costs (i was acting as his agent)? Should i just
put
it down to experience, and make sure i get a deposit in future?

The customer is not liable for your costs unless you had a contract in
place stating that to be case. You should most certainly take a
deposit in future, not only to provide some compensation and
discourage the customer from canceling but it would also put you in a
better legal position.

Had you taken a deposit both parties would be bound by contract.

There is no requirement for a deposit for the contract to be
formed. Nor does there need to be a set of Terms and
Conditions beyond the obvious: "I will supply X and you
will pay Y". Of course, without written conditions any genuine
dispute will be found in a way most favourable to the consumer
but this doesn't mean that there is no contrtact.
ISTM that the verbal agreement that the OP had, formed
a valid contract that can be enforced. What that contract
is for is another matter and is this difficult issue that probably
does make enforcement financially impossible.

As
it stands you have no contract; "offer" and "acceptance" took place
but there was no "consideration" as no money (or anything else of
value) changed hands.

A valid contract requires that each party agree to a consideration,
there is absolutely no requirement that consideration has changed
hands before a contract become valid. Most contracts are formed
on the basis that the considerations will be made at a later date

In this instance you're essentially a reseller, unless you had
explicitly stated you were acting as an agent. In any event the
distinction does not alter your liability unless you defined the scope
and limitations of your agreement but, again, you would need to enter
into a contractual relationship for those terms to be binding.

He has done this. Proving the Terms will be virtually impossible.

There's not a lot you can do and anything you do will probably reflect
badly on your business so you'd probably be best selling on the goods
at cost and writing it down to experience.

I agree with this as an end result, but not with how you got there

tim

Adrian Boliston wrote:

"Paul Hopwood" wrote in message
...

Had you taken a deposit both parties would be bound by contract. As
it stands you have no contract; "offer" and "acceptance" took place
but there was no "consideration" as no money (or anything else of
value) changed hands.

It is perfectly possible to have a valid contract without money hving to be
paid "up front"!

Of course. Most contracts are in fact like that.

"tim" wrote:

The customer is not liable for your costs unless you had a contract in
place stating that to be case. You should most certainly take a
deposit in future, not only to provide some compensation and
discourage the customer from canceling but it would also put you in a
better legal position.

There is no requirement for a deposit for the contract to be
formed. Nor does there need to be a set of Terms and
Conditions beyond the obvious: "I will supply X and you
will pay Y". Of course, without written conditions any genuine
dispute will be found in a way most favourable to the consumer
but this doesn't mean that there is no contrtact.

Sorry. Perhaps I could of been clearer.

Technically the offer, acceptance and agreement for consideration to
take place would be sufficient to form a contract but, I gather from
the OP, that the vendor has no evidence with which to substantiate
this?

ISTM that the verbal agreement that the OP had, formed
a valid contract that can be enforced. What that contract
is for is another matter and is this difficult issue that probably
does make enforcement financially impossible.

Ultimately, were it end up in court, the OP could never demonstrate
there was any contract. Had a deposit been taken he would be in a
much better position as the customer would have a difficult time
claiming there was no contact and instead the argument would become
one of what exactly the terms of that contract were.

That said, if the customer had already parted with cash it would
probably discourage them from canceling in the first place and, even
it they did, it would hopefully be an amount sufficient to compensate
the vendor.

As
it stands you have no contract; "offer" and "acceptance" took place
but there was no "consideration" as no money (or anything else of
value) changed hands.

A valid contract requires that each party agree to a consideration,
there is absolutely no requirement that consideration has changed
hands before a contract become valid. Most contracts are formed
on the basis that the considerations will be made at a later date

Again, I was trying to look at it objectively. A contract which can
be denied by one party and remains unsubstantiated by the other is as
good as no contract.

There's not a lot you can do and anything you do will probably reflect
badly on your business so you'd probably be best selling on the goods
at cost and writing it down to experience.

I agree with this as an end result, but not with how you got there

At least we agree on something. :-)

--
iv Paul iv

I know it is of little use to you now, but in situations like that, when
I am ordering 1-off kit for a specific requirement, I always request a
small deposit in advance of sourcing the goods. I also generally quote
a delivery time and offer to deliver free of charge if I can't make the
delivery date.

The deposit keeps the buyer a buyer, and the advanced knowledge of no
delivery charge if I delivery late acts to keep me tuned in, and gives
the buyer a degree of confidence in my bona-fides and goes some way to
lessen the pain of paying the deposit upfront.

Regards

Ian

"Paul Womar" wrote in message
...
Paul Hopwood wrote:

Had you taken a deposit both parties would be bound by contract. As
it stands you have no contract; "offer" and "acceptance" took place
but there was no "consideration" as no money (or anything else of
value) changed hands.

AIUI a promise to pay is a thing of value, i.e. it counts as
consideration. IANAL.

Agreed.

I have heard many examples of this previously from independant law lectures.

IANAL....

--

Liddle Feesh
*fap fap fap fap*

Liddle Feesh wrote:

"Paul Womar" wrote in message
...
Paul Hopwood wrote:

Had you taken a deposit both parties would be bound by contract. As
it stands you have no contract; "offer" and "acceptance" took place
but there was no "consideration" as no money (or anything else of
value) changed hands.

AIUI a promise to pay is a thing of value, i.e. it counts as
consideration. IANAL.

Agreed.

I have heard many examples of this previously from independant law lectures.

IANAL....

True, you don't need a written contract, a contract can be made e.g. over
the telephone. But the problem here is:

1. There may not be any proof that such a promise has taken place.
2. Since the exact words doesn't exists, there may be different interpretations
on what has been agreed.

that's incredible.

For me you are in right 100%.

Just a suggestion: simply next time take payment in advance by Bank
Transfer! Avoid Credit Cards (credit card companies are against merchants):
they do not offer warranties to the merchant if the customer refuses the
items or the transaction.

Marco


"Gaz" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
A few weeks ago I recieved a phone call from a potential customer, asking
about the availability and pricing of second hand computers.

I explained to the customer that I dont normally handle second hand
computers, as long term reliabilty cannot be guaranteed, but, if he
wanted
me to, i knew a supplier who could get hold of some reasonable standard
PCs
with a monitor. I qouted a price for this, which he agreed, I explained
that
I was purchasing these goods on his behalf, my charge would be to put
licensed windows on, install the PC, and provide some basic tuition.

I repeated to the customer, that the reliability of second hand PCs cannot
be assured, and that I was not responsible for anything other then
assuring
that the item worked when it was installed (I conceeded to provide further
tech support for cost if needed, though).

The customer agreed to this, and requested I purchased him a new digital
camera, as he wanted to sell things on ebay....

I agreed a price, we made a verbal contract, I told the customer that I
will
put the order in as soon as i get off the phone, but it might take a few
days for delivery, as I was dependent on external suppliers.

The pc came a couple of days later, on delivery, it became clear that the
PC
was not up to the usual standards of the supplier. I was not able to
deliver the PC the day I intended to, the customer rang me a bit irate for
not telling him as soon as I knew that i would not be ablt to deliver that
day.

Customer had a fair point, pretty annoying when waiting for someone and
they
dont come. Anyway, grovelled intensly, explained the situation, how it was
out of my hands, and that the supplier will be sending me another within a
few days.

Anyway, long story short, 12 days after the initial contact was made, the
PC
was ready for delivery.

Contacted the customer, he told me he was on holiday, and would ring back
next week. Today, he phoned me, and told me that because of the wait, he
didnt want any of it anymore, i asked why, he said that the time it took
was
to long etc, I apologised for the time, explained it was out of my
control,
and offered an upgrade of a free CD writer as a way of making it up.

Not interested, said he doesnt want it.....

Now then, in these circumstances, i am significantly out of pocket, is the
customer liable for my costs (i was acting as his agent)? Should i just
put
it down to experience, and make sure i get a deposit in future?

any advice would be appreciated.

Gaz

"SS" wrote in message
...
that's incredible.

well we learn

For me you are in right 100%.

Well, i reckon, I was probably about 70% right. It was my fault that i didnt
collect a deposit, or make the terms and conditions clearer (ie. in
writing), maybe if i brushed up on my customer service skills it might be
better as well.

Just a suggestion: simply next time take payment in advance by Bank
Transfer! Avoid Credit Cards (credit card companies are against
merchants):
they do not offer warranties to the merchant if the customer refuses the
items or the transaction.

No one has asked for CC payments, (except of course my ebay trading), cheque
and cash is sufficient, I havent had a bounced cheque yet either....



Gaz

Marco