Little warning: USB is broken: USB 2.0/3.0 doesn't work on USB 1.0

Sigh,

As far as I know nobody made a video about how usb 2.0/3.0 external harddisks and usb sticks can't work on usb 1.0.

The manufacturers kinda implicitely/indirectly mention this but not mentioning usb 1.0 backwards compatibility.

So basically this means the USB STANDARD IS BROKEN and therefore it sucks ballz.

This video shows the mentioning on the packages and websites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_2xH--E_o0

It also explores wikipedia, there is very little information about WHY it's not backward compatible.

What is even worse about this is:

The usb 2.0 and usb 3.0 plugs will fit in a usb 1.0 port. Making people believe that maybe it will work on computers and windows xp.

I tried this yesterday and windows xp did detect the drive a little bit, but for some reason couldn't read or write or make it show up in windows explorer.

So now I am not sure what is going on.

Is it a windows xp limitation ? Is it a driver issue ? Like many peope might believe, they will start messing around, but what if it can never work ?!?!?!

It wastes their time... and therefore manufacturers and the usb "comitee" that made this standard should be somewhat ashamed of themselfes !

This problem can still be corrected by being HONEST about it and TELLING people STRAIGHT to their FACES why it won't work.

Perhaps these ****ers don't even know WHY it won't work ?! WHAT THE **** MAN ?!.

So let this be a HEADS up in case you think you can use these devices on old computers.

Only if they are not that old and have usb 2.0.... but usb 1.0 computers ?!?!?!?

Not according to them ?! good luck figuring out which usb ports your computer supports ?!

If somebody still knows a hack how to get this working on usb 1.0 ports I still be interested ! =D

Maybe they just disabled it because it might be slow, big mistake...

Slow drives can still be usefull for getting data off of old machines.

Beats unsafe internet connections !

Now you know, somewhat, and knowing somewhat, is HALF the battle G.I. JOEEE ! =D

Bye,
Skybuck.

wrote:
Sigh,

As far as I know nobody made a video about how usb 2.0/3.0 external harddisks and usb sticks can't work on usb 1.0.

The manufacturers kinda implicitely/indirectly mention this but not mentioning usb 1.0 backwards compatibility.

So basically this means the USB STANDARD IS BROKEN and therefore it sucks ballz.

This video shows the mentioning on the packages and websites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_2xH--E_o0

It also explores wikipedia, there is very little information about WHY it's not backward compatible.

What is even worse about this is:

The usb 2.0 and usb 3.0 plugs will fit in a usb 1.0 port. Making people believe that maybe it will work on computers and windows xp.

I tried this yesterday and windows xp did detect the drive a little bit, but for some reason couldn't read or write or make it show up in windows explorer.

So now I am not sure what is going on.

Is it a windows xp limitation ? Is it a driver issue ? Like many peope might believe, they will start messing around, but what if it can never work ?!?!?!

It wastes their time... and therefore manufacturers and the usb "comitee" that made this standard should be somewhat ashamed of themselfes !

This problem can still be corrected by being HONEST about it and TELLING people STRAIGHT to their FACES why it won't work.

Perhaps these ****ers don't even know WHY it won't work ?! WHAT THE **** MAN ?!.

So let this be a HEADS up in case you think you can use these devices on old computers.

Only if they are not that old and have usb 2.0.... but usb 1.0 computers ?!?!?!?

Not according to them ?! good luck figuring out which usb ports your computer supports ?!

If somebody still knows a hack how to get this working on usb 1.0 ports I still be interested ! =D

Maybe they just disabled it because it might be slow, big mistake...

Slow drives can still be usefull for getting data off of old machines.

Beats unsafe internet connections !

Now you know, somewhat, and knowing somewhat, is HALF the battle G.I. JOEEE ! =D

Bye,
Skybuck.

A quick Google should tell you that the manufacturers
think the USB2 pins on the USB3 key, work on the USB1.1
rates of an old computer.

It's just a matter of getting the connector to fit.

The first generation of USB1.1 jacks, fit too tightly,
and you might have trouble seating the device.

You should only buy USB3 sticks with *metal* barrels,
as the ones with plastic barrels bend way too much,
and one of the USB3 contacts will snap off in the
first day of usage. And plugging it into one of those
tight USB1.1 jacks, is just asking for trouble with
a plastic barrel. Guaranteed bad times...

The other question, is how any Class drivers react
in that situation. If the OS is more modern, maybe
that helps. My oldest computer (with USB1.1 ports),
it's not very good on recognizing hardware. Won't
boot from a DVD. The CD drive won't read CDRW,
will likely read CDR, won't read 800MB overburns.
The machine won't boot from USB. Has no popup boot
menu. When you stick a SATA card in, it won't recognize
the SATA card and refuses to register the disk drives.
The old computers are "pretty cranky" :-)

Paul

HOLY****.

PENTIUM 3 actually has USB 2.0 PORTS.

NOW I LOOK LIKE A FOOL =D

I FEEL EMBARRESSED LOL.

DELETING MY YOUTUBE VIDEO QUICKLY.

SORRY FOLKS FOR SCREAMING AT YOU ! LOL.

Bye,
Skybuck =D

P.S.: Let's pretend this never happened you are also part to blame with all your ****ty usb versions :PPPPP****** HAHA.

On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 7:36:17 AM UTC+1, wrote:
HOLY****.

PENTIUM 3 actually has USB 2.0 PORTS.

NOW I LOOK LIKE A FOOL =D

I FEEL EMBARRESSED LOL.

DELETING MY YOUTUBE VIDEO QUICKLY.

SORRY FOLKS FOR SCREAMING AT YOU ! LOL.

Bye,
Skybuck =D

P.S.: Let's pretend this never happened you are also part to blame with all your ****ty usb versions :PPPPP****** HAHA.


OH **** I CONSULATED THE WRONG MOTHERBOARD MANUAL.

NF4SK is for Socket 939... not pentium 3 LOL.

It's late OH MY GOD ****.

Bye for now,
Gotta find correct manual gjez.
Bye,
Skybuck.

Correct manual if you can call it that, just some specs is 694x.pdf:

97&;
$SROOR3UR$
0+]
6LQJOH&KLS6ORW6RFNHW1RUWK%ULGJH
IRU'HVNWRSDQG0RELOH3&6\VWHPV
ZLWK$*3[DQG3&,
SOXV$GYDQFHG(&&0HPRU\&RQWUROOHU
VXSSRUWLQJ3&3&6'5$0
9LUWXDO&KDQQHO0HPRU\9&0 (6'5$0
5HYLVLRQ
6HSWHPEHU
9,$7(&+12/2*,(6,1&

Great can;t copy pasteit... thanks acrobat reader !

VIA Apollo pro chipset .

Probably USB 1.0 ports damn !

I was right all along... re-uploading video ! LOL.

Bye,
Skybuck.

LOL OK NOT GOING TO RE-UPLOAD VIDEO,

CAUSE I AM NOT CONVINCED IT'S AN USB 1.0 problem.

First I will try usb stick and maybe partition harddisks and try again.

This might take days or weeks or months... because I wanna do something else first mostly...

But I will re-investigate this issue in future and report back if drives or usb stick dont work !

Consider this issue half-solved, open and remaining a slight mystery for now.

Bye for now,
Skybuck.

wrote:
Correct manual if you can call it that, just some specs is 694x.pdf:

97&;
$SROOR3UR$
0+]
6LQJOH&KLS6ORW6RFNHW1RUWK%ULGJH
IRU'HVNWRSDQG0RELOH3&6\VWHPV
ZLWK$*3[DQG3&,
SOXV$GYDQFHG(&&0HPRU\&RQWUROOHU
VXSSRUWLQJ3&3&6'5$0
9LUWXDO&KDQQHO0HPRU\9&0 (6'5$0
5HYLVLRQ
6HSWHPEHU
9,$7(&+12/2*,(6,1&

Great can;t copy pasteit... thanks acrobat reader !

VIA Apollo pro chipset .

Probably USB 1.0 ports damn !

I was right all along... re-uploading video ! LOL.

Bye,
Skybuck.

I have a 694T here, and it has a 686B Southbridge.

There are four USB ports, and the claim is it
has two hubs for them. But they're USB1.1 ports,
so it's not exactly a "feature" :-/

It's the TUV4X motherboard. I bought it as a spare back
around 2001 or 2002. Something like that. I never took it
out of the box until 2018, and I fired it up and it
works OK. (Had to put a good CR2032 into it though.)
I don't think I used the USB ports on it. I just set
it up on the kitchen table long enough to test it out.

The really scary thing about the boards back then,
is the memory bus only delivered data at 300MB/sec.
Talk about slow...

And your copy/paste problem. I've had that before. There
are a few PDFs where the font encoding tables are screwed
up and it prevents copying. There is actually one word
processor product that does this on purpose ("copy prevention").
You can use OCR to defeat this. All that you need is a
decent OCR program. (Open PDF in GIMP, save the
page as a JPG, TIF, or BMP, whatever the OCR program
needs, then OCR it. Now, if only there was a good
OCR program...) LibreOffice has an OCR plugin, but it
uses a Cloud server for the recognition, and you
should only put documents like your manual into it.
You can't put any "state secrets" into a tool like that.

Paul

wrote:
Correct manual if you can call it that, just some specs is 694x.pdf:

97&;
$SROOR3UR$

Great can;t copy pasteit... thanks acrobat reader !

It's got a few fonts with custom encoding.
And those are the ones that don't copy/paste properly.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040707...tinfo/694X.pdf

Paul

wrote:
Sigh,

As far as I know nobody made a video about how usb 2.0/3.0 external harddisks and usb sticks can't work on usb 1.0.

The manufacturers kinda implicitely/indirectly mention this but not mentioning usb 1.0 backwards compatibility.

So basically this means the USB STANDARD IS BROKEN and therefore it sucks ballz.

This video shows the mentioning on the packages and websites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_2xH--E_o0

It also explores wikipedia, there is very little information about WHY it's not backward compatible.

What is even worse about this is:

The usb 2.0 and usb 3.0 plugs will fit in a usb 1.0 port. Making people believe that maybe it will work on computers and windows xp.

I tried this yesterday and windows xp did detect the drive a little bit, but for some reason couldn't read or write or make it show up in windows explorer.

So now I am not sure what is going on.

Is it a windows xp limitation ? Is it a driver issue ? Like many peope might believe, they will start messing around, but what if it can never work ?!?!?!

It wastes their time... and therefore manufacturers and the usb "comitee" that made this standard should be somewhat ashamed of themselfes !

This problem can still be corrected by being HONEST about it and TELLING people STRAIGHT to their FACES why it won't work.

Perhaps these ****ers don't even know WHY it won't work ?! WHAT THE **** MAN ?!.

So let this be a HEADS up in case you think you can use these devices on old computers.

Only if they are not that old and have usb 2.0.... but usb 1.0 computers ?!?!?!?

Not according to them ?! good luck figuring out which usb ports your computer supports ?!

If somebody still knows a hack how to get this working on usb 1.0 ports I still be interested ! =D

Maybe they just disabled it because it might be slow, big mistake...

Slow drives can still be usefull for getting data off of old machines.

Beats unsafe internet connections !

Now you know, somewhat, and knowing somewhat, is HALF the battle G.I. JOEEE ! =D

Bye,
Skybuck.

I got this working by the way.

P4 1.8GHz 845 Northbridge ICH2 Southbridge
2 USB 1.1 ports
512MB RAM

I booted it with BionicPup 32-bit.

http://puppylinux.com/index.html#download

http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux...2-8.0-uefi.iso

I plugged in the USB3 Sandisk Flash, and the
file systems on it mounted.

If I'd used Win98, then without some help, it
wouldn't have worked. I'd need the
Maximus Decim NUSB drivers for USB Mass Storage
class to work. And Maximus doesn't work with
all chipsets either.

You just need the right OS to encourage it to work.
Or have the driver disc from way back when. One
or the other.

The USB3 stick has USB3 pins and USB2 pins.
The USB2 pins contact the USB1.1 jack and
the USB2 pins are the ones that are backward
compatible with USB1.1.

Eventually there will be USB versions that
don't work with USB1.1. I don't own anything
(yet) that doesn't work.

Paul

On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 9:14:12 AM UTC+1, Paul wrote:
wrote:
Sigh,

As far as I know nobody made a video about how usb 2.0/3.0 external harddisks and usb sticks can't work on usb 1.0.

The manufacturers kinda implicitely/indirectly mention this but not mentioning usb 1.0 backwards compatibility.

So basically this means the USB STANDARD IS BROKEN and therefore it sucks ballz.

This video shows the mentioning on the packages and websites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_2xH--E_o0

It also explores wikipedia, there is very little information about WHY it's not backward compatible.

What is even worse about this is:

The usb 2.0 and usb 3.0 plugs will fit in a usb 1.0 port. Making people believe that maybe it will work on computers and windows xp.

I tried this yesterday and windows xp did detect the drive a little bit, but for some reason couldn't read or write or make it show up in windows explorer.

So now I am not sure what is going on.

Is it a windows xp limitation ? Is it a driver issue ? Like many peope might believe, they will start messing around, but what if it can never work ?!?!?!

It wastes their time... and therefore manufacturers and the usb "comitee" that made this standard should be somewhat ashamed of themselfes !

This problem can still be corrected by being HONEST about it and TELLING people STRAIGHT to their FACES why it won't work.

Perhaps these ****ers don't even know WHY it won't work ?! WHAT THE **** MAN ?!.

So let this be a HEADS up in case you think you can use these devices on old computers.

Only if they are not that old and have usb 2.0.... but usb 1.0 computers ?!?!?!?

Not according to them ?! good luck figuring out which usb ports your computer supports ?!

If somebody still knows a hack how to get this working on usb 1.0 ports I still be interested ! =D

Maybe they just disabled it because it might be slow, big mistake...

Slow drives can still be usefull for getting data off of old machines.

Beats unsafe internet connections !

Now you know, somewhat, and knowing somewhat, is HALF the battle G.I. JOEEE ! =D

Bye,
Skybuck.

I got this working by the way.

P4 1.8GHz 845 Northbridge ICH2 Southbridge
2 USB 1.1 ports
512MB RAM

I booted it with BionicPup 32-bit.

http://puppylinux.com/index.html#download

http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux...2-8.0-uefi.iso

I plugged in the USB3 Sandisk Flash, and the
file systems on it mounted.

If I'd used Win98, then without some help, it
wouldn't have worked. I'd need the
Maximus Decim NUSB drivers for USB Mass Storage
class to work. And Maximus doesn't work with
all chipsets either.

You just need the right OS to encourage it to work.
Or have the driver disc from way back when. One
or the other.

The USB3 stick has USB3 pins and USB2 pins.
The USB2 pins contact the USB1.1 jack and
the USB2 pins are the ones that are backward
compatible with USB1.1.

Eventually there will be USB versions that
don't work with USB1.1. I don't own anything
(yet) that doesn't work.

Paul

OK Paul, thanks for trying this out !

I have never heard of puppy linux so this is new ?!

I have two questions for you:

How the hell are file systems/sectors/clusters transferred over USB ?! I am still mystified even after reading usb 3.1 specification.

Maybe it's scsi protocol on top of it, or something microsoft specific ? You know anything about that ?!

Second question:

How the hell do I mount a VHD in Linux ?! =D

I know Linux does things differently with scripts and automation and downloading software but I kinda like VHD/containers-like-approach for my own data and portability.

I don't get why Linux doesn't seem to support virtual harddisks out of the box, feels very weird and alien to me.

Bye,
Skybuck =D