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Barton in KT333 - help please



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 6th 03, 04:45 PM
S.Boardman
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Posts: n/a
Default Barton in KT333 - help please

Hello. I have just upgraded my MSI KT3 Ultra with a Barton XP2500+ and
Thermaltake Silentboost 7.
[Currently readings are as follows
XP1900 @ 1466Mhz.
Resting temp (in BIOS, side off case) 33 deg C
Used Artic Silver 5 so it should drop a bit more.
System temp (in BIOS, side off case) 32 deg C
CPU fan speed 2600rpm
I have PC2700 RAM at latency 2.5, set to SPD.
FSB 133, memory clock 133, AGP clock 55.5, PCI clock 33.3
CPU ratio set to auto]

I have found instructions to change the FSB, but it says
"make sure if your running at 133 that you dissable hostclk+33 first "
Where do I find hostclk+33 in my BIOS (v5.7)? I can't find it. Instructions
were at
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...TF-8&newwindow
=1&safe=off&threadm=5%25saa.7125%24wW.726681%40new s2.telusplanet.net&rnum=4&
prev=/groups%3Fq%3DMSI%2BKT3%2BUltra%2BBarton%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl
%3Den

Also, do I need to overclock the memory or something?


  #2  
Old November 6th 03, 06:46 PM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:45:04 -0000, "S.Boardman"
wrote:

Hello. I have just upgraded my MSI KT3 Ultra with a Barton XP2500+ and
Thermaltake Silentboost 7.
[Currently readings are as follows
XP1900 @ 1466Mhz.
Resting temp (in BIOS, side off case) 33 deg C
Used Artic Silver 5 so it should drop a bit more.
System temp (in BIOS, side off case) 32 deg C
CPU fan speed 2600rpm
I have PC2700 RAM at latency 2.5, set to SPD.
FSB 133, memory clock 133, AGP clock 55.5, PCI clock 33.3
CPU ratio set to auto]

I have found instructions to change the FSB, but it says
"make sure if your running at 133 that you dissable hostclk+33 first "
Where do I find hostclk+33 in my BIOS (v5.7)? I can't find it. Instructions
were at
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...TF-8&newwindow
=1&safe=off&threadm=5%25saa.7125%24wW.726681%40ne ws2.telusplanet.net&rnum=4&
prev=/groups%3Fq%3DMSI%2BKT3%2BUltra%2BBarton%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl
%3Den

Also, do I need to overclock the memory or something?


You do not need to overclock the memory, it is PC2700 which is correct
for a synchronous memory to FSB ratio of DDR, sometimes called 333MHz
but often called 166MHz at Double Data Rate.

See this review,
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.c...eid=989&page=3
If your bios settings menus are still the same, the first picture
shows the memory speed as 333MHz when they used a DDR266 CPU. Focus
on that memory speed, don't try to change the rest of the settings to
match those in the review. The memory speed at 333 is at "+33" in the
example provided in the review, because they were using a DDR266 CPU.
It would be synchronously set at 266 or at "-33" at 200. However,
since you start out with a 166MHz, DDR333 FSB CPU, after manually
setting the CPU FSB to 166MHz (which is DDR333), you'd set the memory
also to 333, which wouldn't be "+33" anymore, would be synchronous to
the DDR333, 166MHz of the CPU FSB.

However some boards have bios bugs, where changing the CPU FSB doesn't
change the memory menu, so if your choices for memory don't change
after you increase the CPU FSB to 166MHz, choose the "middle" speed
setting of the three.

If the setting is difficult to set on the first try and your board
fails to POST, just clear the CMOS via the jumper (or remove battery
for a few mintures) and try again. If you don't have a printed
version of the motherboard manual handy it might be good to check the
online manual to see where the motherboard Clear CMOS jumper is before
trying to change these settings.


Dave
  #3  
Old November 6th 03, 06:57 PM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:46:43 GMT, kony wrote:

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:45:04 -0000, "S.Boardman"
wrote:

Hello. I have just upgraded my MSI KT3 Ultra with a Barton XP2500+ and
Thermaltake Silentboost 7.
[Currently readings are as follows
XP1900 @ 1466Mhz.
Resting temp (in BIOS, side off case) 33 deg C
Used Artic Silver 5 so it should drop a bit more.
System temp (in BIOS, side off case) 32 deg C
CPU fan speed 2600rpm
I have PC2700 RAM at latency 2.5, set to SPD.
FSB 133, memory clock 133, AGP clock 55.5, PCI clock 33.3
CPU ratio set to auto]

I have found instructions to change the FSB, but it says
"make sure if your running at 133 that you dissable hostclk+33 first "
Where do I find hostclk+33 in my BIOS (v5.7)? I can't find it. Instructions
were at
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...TF-8&newwindow
=1&safe=off&threadm=5%25saa.7125%24wW.726681%40n ews2.telusplanet.net&rnum=4&
prev=/groups%3Fq%3DMSI%2BKT3%2BUltra%2BBarton%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl
%3Den

Also, do I need to overclock the memory or something?


The following is a different (BIOS version?) for the KT3 board, where
the memory bus isn't set to a frequency number but rather to "HCLK",
which if the BIOS functions properly, should be what you want. Note
that the picture shows 133MHz for "current host clock", while your
board with the Barton CPU installed and set correctly, would show
166MHz for the current host clock.


Dave
  #4  
Old November 6th 03, 07:30 PM
neopolaris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



S.Boardman wrote:
Hello. I have just upgraded my MSI KT3 Ultra with a Barton XP2500+ and
Thermaltake Silentboost 7.
[Currently readings are as follows
XP1900 @ 1466Mhz.
Resting temp (in BIOS, side off case) 33 deg C
Used Artic Silver 5 so it should drop a bit more.
System temp (in BIOS, side off case) 32 deg C
CPU fan speed 2600rpm
I have PC2700 RAM at latency 2.5, set to SPD.
FSB 133, memory clock 133, AGP clock 55.5, PCI clock 33.3
CPU ratio set to auto]

I have found instructions to change the FSB, but it says
"make sure if your running at 133 that you dissable hostclk+33 first "
Where do I find hostclk+33 in my BIOS (v5.7)? I can't find it.
Instructions were at

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...TF-8&newwindow

=1&safe=off&threadm=5%25saa.7125%24wW.726681%40new s2.telusplanet.net&rnum=4&

prev=/groups%3Fq%3DMSI%2BKT3%2BUltra%2BBarton%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl
%3Den

Also, do I need to overclock the memory or something?


Leave the FSB at 133. Go into bios and set the memory to speed. Restart.
Go back inton the bios and change the FSB from 133 to 166. restart. Should
do it.

neopolaris


  #5  
Old November 6th 03, 10:28 PM
S.Boardman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"kony" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:46:43 GMT, kony wrote:

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:45:04 -0000, "S.Boardman"
wrote:

snip settings


I have found instructions to change the FSB, but it says
"make sure if your running at 133 that you dissable hostclk+33 first "
Where do I find hostclk+33 in my BIOS (v5.7)? I can't find it.

Instructions
were at


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...=UTF-8&newwind

ow

=1&safe=off&threadm=5%25saa.7125%24wW.726681%40n ews2.telusplanet.net&rnum=

4&

prev=/groups%3Fq%3DMSI%2BKT3%2BUltra%2BBarton%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26

hl
%3Den

Also, do I need to overclock the memory or something?


The following is a different (BIOS version?) for the KT3 board, where
the memory bus isn't set to a frequency number but rather to "HCLK",
which if the BIOS functions properly, should be what you want. Note
that the picture shows 133MHz for "current host clock", while your
board with the Barton CPU installed and set correctly, would show
166MHz for the current host clock.


Yippeee :-) When I changed it to 166, the DRAM changed to HCLK
automatically. At boot it now says DRAM clock 333 XP 2500+.

[If I wanted to overclock it, do I up the FSB or the ratio bit or both? I'm
not planning to do it right yet, since I still have the northbridge h/s (it
still requires a push from a cold start :-( and I want to change the RAID
from 0 to 1 - my next task).]
Thanks for your help. The hd/fan did fit, and I did have to take the m/b
out - but I got it all back in again :-).
--
Susan (more posts coming. *Sigh*)


  #6  
Old November 6th 03, 11:06 PM
S.Boardman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Forget that! I'm having problems in Windows 98. It wouldn't boot in to
Windows - hung on blank screen. Then it just got into safe mode and explorer
crashed. It works fine with the original settings (@ XP 1900). I have a
hunch it is the video card. I got an 'out of range' warning from the monitor
too, after POST.

The card is a (MSI) nVidia GeForce4 MX 440. The memory clock reported by
display properties in Windows is 405MHz, core clock 270. Elsewhere in the
settings it has a tick by 66MHz and AGP x4. BIOS version is 4.17.00.24.00.

Please help.
--
Susan


  #7  
Old November 6th 03, 11:12 PM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:28:20 -0000, "S.Boardman"
wrote:


Yippeee :-) When I changed it to 166, the DRAM changed to HCLK
automatically. At boot it now says DRAM clock 333 XP 2500+.

[If I wanted to overclock it, do I up the FSB or the ratio bit or both? I'm
not planning to do it right yet, since I still have the northbridge h/s (it
still requires a push from a cold start :-( and I want to change the RAID
from 0 to 1 - my next task).]
Thanks for your help. The hd/fan did fit, and I did have to take the m/b
out - but I got it all back in again :-).


I'd go ahead and put a drop of oil in the northbridge fan NOW, rather
than waiting, even if you do replace it later... it might run for a
long time with the drop of oil but wear out completely if you keep
running it 'dry'.

It's hard to speculate exactly how far you can push that motherboard
and your PC2700 memory, so be cautious when raising the FSB speed...
it's the larger performance increase but also will subject you to
possibility of various things like memory errors, HDD corruption, and
USB ports, LAN, etc, malfunctioning after a certain point. I would
GUESS you should have no problems raising FSB at least to 172MHz, but
you'll have to do a lot of stability testing to go much higher, and I
wouldn't go higher until you have the HDD(s) backed up. Any
signficant FSB or memory timing changes should be followed up by
several hours of testing with memtest86:
http://www.memtest86.com
If this is your first time running the memory at 166MHz, if it was at
133MHz synchronous speed setting with the previous CPU, I'd run
memtest86 now regardless, just to be as sure as possible that it's
functioning properly.

The multiplier is the safter, easier way to increase CPU speed, though
your particular CPU will dictate how high it can go at default
voltage, though you may have BIOS settings or jumpers to change
voltage as well. I'd expect it can at least run at 12.5X multiplier,
though it might require a slight voltage increase. Just keep in mind
that "overdoing" it, if you raise the speed too high you may need to
clear the CMOS, then reenter any bios settings that were changed from
the defaults.


Dave
  #8  
Old November 7th 03, 12:43 AM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:06:13 -0000, "S.Boardman"
wrote:

Forget that! I'm having problems in Windows 98. It wouldn't boot in to
Windows - hung on blank screen. Then it just got into safe mode and explorer
crashed. It works fine with the original settings (@ XP 1900). I have a
hunch it is the video card. I got an 'out of range' warning from the monitor
too, after POST.

The card is a (MSI) nVidia GeForce4 MX 440. The memory clock reported by
display properties in Windows is 405MHz, core clock 270. Elsewhere in the
settings it has a tick by 66MHz and AGP x4. BIOS version is 4.17.00.24.00.

Please help.


I'm not sure what the problem is, but would suggest that you confirm
that the memory bus is indeed running in synchronous mode, equal to
the FSB speed. I'm wondering if it's possible that the motherboard
BIOS has a bug, that when it reports "333", it really means "FSB +33".
I'd try different bios settings for memory bus. Since this is
manifesting itself as a video problem you might also try changing some
video/agp settings in the bios. Since others have reported success
with a Barton and that motherboard, I'd assume it's something unique
to your system.

If you haven't yet ran memtest86, linked in my previous reply, i'd do
that as well.

Are you sure the northbridge fan is working, or other possibilities of
overheating?


Dave
  #9  
Old November 7th 03, 01:39 AM
Hippy Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Not familiar with the board but have a KT333 and a Barton 2500+ (which I
guess yours is from 1466MHz - 11x133)

In your original post you state that

I have PC2700 RAM at latency 2.5, set to SPD.
FSB 133, memory clock 133, AGP clock 55.5, PCI clock 33.3
CPU ratio set to auto]


The AGP clock is not right - if it is not a typing error - it should be 66.6
- is it still out of range with the 166fsb? also might it be locked to the
fsb in someway so it has been taken out of range by the increase in the fsb?
Also check that the cpu ratio is at 1:1 and not 4:5.

I also have (1x256Mb) pc2700 that I am running at 167Mhz @ 2.5, 2, 2, 6.
Some boards take issue with the number of ram sticks in use - in theory the
KT333 can only take two pc2700 sticks running at 166 - although no doubt
there are exceptions. Maybe try relaxing the memory timings - although I
found that the faster I ran my cpu - the less I could push the fsb -
irrespective of memory timings (other than if I tried CAS 2 - when no boot)

With regard to the overclocking - when you feel the need - I would check out

http://www.ocinside.de/go_e.html?/ht...md_pinmod.html

I currently have a 14 x multiplier on 167fsb = 2340Mhz with vcore at 1.85v.

Also it seems on my board (Asus A7V333) that the system runs noticeably
cooler with the fsb at 167 x 14 (2340Mhz) than it used to with the fsb at
172 x 12.5 (2150Mhz - [and not fully stable])


"S.Boardman" wrote in message
...
Forget that! I'm having problems in Windows 98. It wouldn't boot in to
Windows - hung on blank screen. Then it just got into safe mode and

explorer
crashed. It works fine with the original settings (@ XP 1900). I have a
hunch it is the video card. I got an 'out of range' warning from the

monitor
too, after POST.

The card is a (MSI) nVidia GeForce4 MX 440. The memory clock reported by
display properties in Windows is 405MHz, core clock 270. Elsewhere in the
settings it has a tick by 66MHz and AGP x4. BIOS version is 4.17.00.24.00.

Please help.
--
Susan




  #10  
Old November 7th 03, 12:58 PM
S.Boardman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"kony" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:28:20 -0000, "S.Boardman"
wrote:



I'd go ahead and put a drop of oil in the northbridge fan NOW, rather
than waiting, even if you do replace it later... it might run for a
long time with the drop of oil but wear out completely if you keep
running it 'dry'.

Which oil, and where exactly do I put it? I only see fins, how do I get to
the bit in the middle? Also, how can I tell if the northbridge bit is
overheating?

It's hard to speculate exactly how far you can push that motherboard
and your PC2700 memory, so be cautious when raising the FSB speed...
it's the larger performance increase but also will subject you to
possibility of various things like memory errors, HDD corruption, and
USB ports, LAN, etc, malfunctioning after a certain point. I would
GUESS you should have no problems raising FSB at least to 172MHz, but
you'll have to do a lot of stability testing to go much higher, and I
wouldn't go higher until you have the HDD(s) backed up. Any
signficant FSB or memory timing changes should be followed up by
several hours of testing with memtest86:
http://www.memtest86.com
If this is your first time running the memory at 166MHz, if it was at
133MHz synchronous speed setting with the previous CPU, I'd run
memtest86 now regardless, just to be as sure as possible that it's
functioning properly.


I wasn't planning to go higher than 1500MHz until I've done the RAID swap.
It looks now as though the northbridge issue is more pressing. I'm never
going to get a motherboard with a fan on again (if I can possibly help it).

The multiplier is the safter, easier way to increase CPU speed, though
your particular CPU will dictate how high it can go at default
voltage, though you may have BIOS settings or jumpers to change
voltage as well. I'd expect it can at least run at 12.5X multiplier,
though it might require a slight voltage increase. Just keep in mind
that "overdoing" it, if you raise the speed too high you may need to
clear the CMOS, then reenter any bios settings that were changed from
the defaults.

Thanks
--
Susan


 




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