A computer components & hardware forum. HardwareBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HardwareBanter forum » System Manufacturers & Vendors » Dell Computers
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old January 4th 09, 04:32 AM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop

On Jan 3, 6:55 pm, "Christopher Muto" wrote:
did you read the specs for the apc device? it is far from a 'generic' power
strip. would love to know any refererance for your claims.


A technically accurate response would post those specs. You did
not. Where is that APC and Tripplite numeric spec that lists each
kind of spike and protection from that spike? Or did you just know
APC and Tripplite are better because that is the popular myth. Not
some subjective claim from a sales brochure. Show me those numbers.

Meanwhile the circuit inside a generic power strip is the same
protection circuit. Deny it? Then you can state specifically what is
different. What parts are used? Why does the APC and Tripplite with
same parts somehow costs more? Again a technical challenge ... that
demands on technical knowledge and not repeating popular myths.

Where are those tech spec numbers that again are not provided?
  #12  
Old January 4th 09, 05:17 AM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
Christopher Muto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,222
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop

wtf? i provided a link to the product page that also has a detailed
specification page. it is abundantly clear that you didn't bother to read
it and that you have no references for the opnions that you offered. don't
but it if you don't think it is any good, but please don't just make stuff
up.

wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 6:55 pm, "Christopher Muto" wrote:
did you read the specs for the apc device? it is far from a 'generic'
power
strip. would love to know any refererance for your claims.


A technically accurate response would post those specs. You did
not. Where is that APC and Tripplite numeric spec that lists each
kind of spike and protection from that spike? Or did you just know
APC and Tripplite are better because that is the popular myth. Not
some subjective claim from a sales brochure. Show me those numbers.

Meanwhile the circuit inside a generic power strip is the same
protection circuit. Deny it? Then you can state specifically what is
different. What parts are used? Why does the APC and Tripplite with
same parts somehow costs more? Again a technical challenge ... that
demands on technical knowledge and not repeating popular myths.

Where are those tech spec numbers that again are not provided?



  #13  
Old January 4th 09, 05:57 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
Bud--
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 181
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop

wrote:
On Dec 26 2008, 10:41 am, wrote:
Should I get a voltage stabilizer or spike guard should be enough? Can
anyone please explain which is better to buy for a laptop? I live in
India, Asia where power cuts are frequent(3-4 hours/day). My last
machine got damaged due to spikes.


It’s a laptop which means a UPS does nothing useful.


I wouldn't see a voltage stabilizer as useful either.

Destructive spikes that can overwhelm that protection must be
earthed before entering the building.


The best information on surges and surge protection I have seen is at:
http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf
- "How to protect your house and its contents from lightning: IEEE guide
for surge protection of equipment connected to AC power and
communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005 (the IEEE is the
major organization of electrical and electronic engineers in the US).
And also:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf
- "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to protect the
appliances in your home" published by the US National Institute of
Standards and Technology in 2001

The IEEE guide is aimed at those with some technical background. The
NIST guide is aimed at the unwashed masses.

A protector that will magically
dissipate what even 3 kilometers could not stop - classic myth. The
effective protector simply connects (diverts, shunts, conducts) a
spike into earth so that protection inside the laptop remains intact.


w_ has a religious belief (immune from challenge) that surge protection
must directly use earthing. Thus in his view plug-in suppressors (which
are not well earthed) can not possibly work. The IEEE guide explains
plug-in suppressors work by CLAMPING (limiting) the voltage on all wires
(signal and power) to the common ground at the suppressor. Plug-in
suppressors do not work primarily by earthing (or stopping or absorbing
or magic). The guide explains earthing occurs elsewhere. (Read the guide
starting pdf page 40).

Both the IEEE and NIST guides say plug-in suppressors are effective.

Note that all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same
plug-in suppressor, or interconnecting wires need to go through the
suppressor. External connections, like phone, also need to go through
the suppressor. Connecting all wiring through the suppressor prevents
damaging voltages between power and signal wires. These multiport
suppressors are described in both guides.

The NIST guide, using US insurance information, suggests the major cause
of equipment damage is high voltage between power and phone/cable wires
(illustrated in the IEEE example above).

Laptops probably are more immune from surges than desktop computers.

--
bud-
  #14  
Old January 4th 09, 06:42 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop

On Jan 3, 11:17*pm, "Christopher Muto" wrote:
wtf? *i provided a link to the product page that also has a detailed
specification page. *it is abundantly clear that you didn't bother to read
it and that you have no references for the opnions that you offered. *


So where is that number for protection from each type of surge?
Still not provided. Why would you believe you have posted specs? So
many posts and you still don't provide any numbers.

But again. If you had spec numbers, you posted those numbers. Show
me. Where are your numbers for surge protection? Why do you instead
cite a sales brochure? How do you know something and yet cannot even
post a manufacturer spec? Because you don't have any numbers. You
made the claim. Therefore you have the numbers? Apparently not.

Meanwhile, APC and Tripplite protectors use the same protector
circuit found in generic "power strip' protectors. All three even
make the same numeric claims.

The OP is cautioned about those who _know_ but cannot even post one
manufacturer specification number. Instead learn from telcos who
don't use what Christopher has recommended. Telcos use effective
protectors that make a short connection to earth AND cost less money.
Effective protection means the spike does not even enter a building.
  #15  
Old January 5th 09, 03:39 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
Bud--
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 181
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop

wrote:
On Jan 3, 11:17 pm, "Christopher Muto" wrote:
wtf? i provided a link to the product page that also has a detailed
specification page. it is abundantly clear that you didn't bother to read
it and that you have no references for the opnions that you offered.


So where is that number for protection from each type of surge?


"Each type of surge" is nonsense. Plug-in suppressors have MOVs
(protection elements) from H-N, H-G, N-G. That is all possible
combinations and all possible surge modes.

Still not provided. Why would you believe you have posted specs? So
many posts and you still don't provide any numbers.


Christopher posted a "link to the product page that also has a detailed
specification page." w just ignores what doesn't fit his beliefs. He
doesn't believe specs exist.

The OP is cautioned about those who _know_ but cannot even post one
manufacturer specification number.


The OP is cautioned about those who claim plug-in suppressors are not
effective but cannot even post one source that supports that claim (as
Christopher pointed out).

Instead learn from telcos who
don't use what Christopher has recommended.


Gee, why wouldn't a telco use a plug-in suppressor for a switch which is
high amps, hard wired, with thousands of telephone circuits that would
have to go through the plug-in suppressor.


w can't even answer simple questions:
- Why do the only 2 examples of protection in the IEEE guide use plug-in
suppressors?
- Why does the NIST guide says plug-in suppressors are "the easiest
solution"?
- Why does the IEEE guide say for distant service points "the only
effective way of protecting the equipment is to use a multiport
[plug-in] protector"?

For real science read the IEEE and NIST guides. Both say plug-in
suppressors are effective.

--
bud--
  #16  
Old January 5th 09, 05:03 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop

On Jan 5, 9:39*am, bud-- wrote:
Still not provided. * Why would you believe you have posted specs? *So
many posts and you still don't provide any numbers.


Christopher posted a "link to the product page that also has a detailed
specification page." *w *just ignores what doesn't fit his beliefs. He
doesn't believe specs exist.


Which number claims protection from each type of surge? Christopher
cannot say. He does not know what numbers define surge protection.
So Christopher Muto posted a link to a subjective sales brochure – and
posted no numbers.

No protection numbers are provided because the APC and Tripplite
circuits are the same circuit in that generic power strip.
Christopher did not know that. Christopher recommended without
knowing all three are electrically same. Christopher recommended only
protectors with higher profit margins.

Bud - who promotes power strip protectors - has cut and pasted his
usual diatribe. Good. Page 42 Figure 8 demonstrates what the APC and
Tripplite protectors actually do. Without earth ground, the spike is
earthed 8000 volts destructively through an adjacent TV. Page 42
Figure 8 of Bud's IEEE guide shows why telcos don't waste money on APC
and Tripplite products. Telcos use protectors that actually provide
protection. Telcos use the 'whole house' protector earthed where a
spike cannot enter the building.

Bud's second citation is even more damning. Bud's NIST citation
says why APC and Tripplite protectors do not provide those spec
numbers:
You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor
"arrest" it. What these protective devices do is
neither suppress nor arrest a surge, but simply
divert it to ground, where it can do no harm.


Divert (shunt, connect) a spike to earth. How does APC or Tripplite
without earthing provide protection? Neither do. Bud's NIST citation
(page 19 of 24) is even blunter:
A very important point to keep in mind is that your
surge protector will work by diverting the surges to
ground. The best surge protection in the world can
be useless if grounding is not done properly.


Spike energy must be dissipated somewhere. Will that silly little
APC or Tripplite protector stop or absorb what three kilometers of sky
could not? Bud says yes. But even Bud's citations say spike energy
must be dissipated in earth. No wonder telcos waste no money on APC
or Tripplite protectors. Where is energy harmlessly dissipated? In
earth. Effective (and much less expensive) protectors have a short
(ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth.

No wonder Christopher Muto still will not post those protection
numbers. Those numbers do not exist. He does not know what the sales
brochure says. So Christopher must argue rather than post numbers.

Protecting a laptop and everything else inside a building means
earthing before a spike can enter that building. A protector is only
as effective as that 'less than 3 meter' connection to earth. No
earth ground means nothing will stop or dissipate spike energy. No
earth ground is why telcos don't waste money on what Christopher Muto
has recommended.
  #17  
Old January 5th 09, 08:07 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
Bud--
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 181
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop

wrote:
On Jan 5, 9:39 am, bud-- wrote:
Still not provided. Why would you believe you have posted specs? So
many posts and you still don't provide any numbers.

Christopher posted a "link to the product page that also has a detailed
specification page." w just ignores what doesn't fit his beliefs. He
doesn't believe specs exist.


Which number claims protection from each type of surge?


The village idiot repeats the nonsense about "each type of surge".

Bud - who promotes power strip protectors


I promote only accurate information.
w promotes his religious beliefs.

has cut and pasted his
usual diatribe.


Being evangelical in his beliefs about earthing and plug-in suppressors,
w trolls google-groups for "surge" to cut and paste in his religious
dogma. That is how he arrived.

Page 42 Figure 8 demonstrates what the APC and
Tripplite protectors actually do. Without earth ground, the spike is
earthed 8000 volts destructively through an adjacent TV.


If poor w could only read and think he could discover what the IEEE
guide says in this example:

- A plug-in suppressor protects the TV connected to it.
- "To protect TV2, a second multiport protector located at TV2 is required."
- The suppressor at TV1 causes absolutely no damage at TV2.
- In the example a surge comes in on a cable service with the ground
wire from cable entry ground block to the ground at the power service
that is far too long. In that case the IEEE guide says "the only
effective way of protecting the equipment is to use a multiport
[plug-in] protector."
- w's favored power service suppressors would provide absolutely NO
protection.

But w’s belief in earthing prevents him from understanding the clear
IEEE example.

Bud's second citation is even more damning. Bud's NIST citation
says why APC and Tripplite protectors do not provide those spec
numbers


What does the NIST guide really say about plug-in suppressors?
They are "the easiest solution".
And "one effective solution is to have the consumer install" a multiport
plug-in suppressor.

But poor w can't read anything that conflicts with his religious belief
in earthing.

Spike energy must be dissipated somewhere. Will that silly little
APC or Tripplite protector stop or absorb what three kilometers of sky
could not? Bud says yes.


The village idiot can't understand the clear explanation in the IEEE guide.
Repeating:
The IEEE guide explains plug-in suppressors work by CLAMPING (limiting)
the voltage on all wires (signal and power) to the common ground at the
suppressor. Plug-in suppressors do not work primarily by earthing (or
stopping or absorbing or magic). The guide explains earthing occurs
elsewhere. (Read the guide starting pdf page 40).

No wonder Christopher Muto still will not post those protection
numbers. Those numbers do not exist.


The village idiot can't find the specs Christopher posted. If w
ignores them they don't exist?

No
earth ground means nothing will stop or dissipate spike energy.


The required statement of religious belief in earthing.

Never seen - a link to anyone who agrees with w that plug-in
suppressors do NOT work.

Never seen - answers to simple questions:
- Why do the only 2 examples of protection in the IEEE guide use plug-in
suppressors?
- Why does the NIST guide says plug-in suppressors are "the easiest
solution"?
- Why does the NIST guide say "One effective solution is to have the
consumer install" a multiport plug-in suppressor?
- Why does the IEEE guide say for distant service points "the only
effective way of protecting the equipment is to use a multiport
[plug-in] protector"?
- How would w’s favored service panel suppressors provide any
protection in the IEEE example, pdf page 42?


For real science read the IEEE and NIST guides. Both say plug-in
suppressors are effective.

--
bud--
  #18  
Old January 5th 09, 11:21 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
Christopher Muto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,222
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop

thanks bud, nice to know that someone out there can read
how on earth he thinks the circut in the apc notebook adapter is exactly the
same as that in a generic power strip is beyond me. it does much more than
generic power strip. it has excellent specs, is from a reputable company,
and is far from a $1.99 power strip made in china. it has it has an
indicator to alert you that it suffered a surge that has rendered it
inoperable unlike generic strips that simple just continue to work without
surge supression givein a false sense of security. apc will replace it for
free if it becomes defective. and unlike lugging around a 6 outlet power
strip with a six foot cord along with your laptop, it neatly plugs in line
to the high voltage side of the notebook ac adapter to further reduce bulk.
don't buy it if you don't want, but i have found them to work great and at
$15 it is very cheap insurance. comes in three prong and two prong models,
get what is appropiate for your laptop's ac acapter.

"bud--" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 3, 11:17 pm, "Christopher Muto" wrote:
wtf? i provided a link to the product page that also has a detailed
specification page. it is abundantly clear that you didn't bother to
read
it and that you have no references for the opnions that you offered.


So where is that number for protection from each type of surge?


"Each type of surge" is nonsense. Plug-in suppressors have MOVs
(protection elements) from H-N, H-G, N-G. That is all possible
combinations and all possible surge modes.

Still not provided. Why would you believe you have posted specs? So
many posts and you still don't provide any numbers.


Christopher posted a "link to the product page that also has a detailed
specification page." w just ignores what doesn't fit his beliefs. He
doesn't believe specs exist.

The OP is cautioned about those who _know_ but cannot even post one
manufacturer specification number.


The OP is cautioned about those who claim plug-in suppressors are not
effective but cannot even post one source that supports that claim (as
Christopher pointed out).

Instead learn from telcos who
don't use what Christopher has recommended.


Gee, why wouldn't a telco use a plug-in suppressor for a switch which is
high amps, hard wired, with thousands of telephone circuits that would
have to go through the plug-in suppressor.


w can't even answer simple questions:
- Why do the only 2 examples of protection in the IEEE guide use plug-in
suppressors?
- Why does the NIST guide says plug-in suppressors are "the easiest
solution"?
- Why does the IEEE guide say for distant service points "the only
effective way of protecting the equipment is to use a multiport [plug-in]
protector"?

For real science read the IEEE and NIST guides. Both say plug-in
suppressors are effective.

--
bud--



  #19  
Old January 6th 09, 12:33 AM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop

On Jan 5, 5:21*pm, "Christopher Muto" wrote:
thanks bud, nice to know that someone out there can read
how on earth he thinks the circut in the apc notebook adapter is exactly the
same as that in a generic power strip is beyond me. *it does much more than
generic power strip.


It does? Then you posted those numbers. Oh? Still no numbers?
APC and Tripplite have same protection circuit also found in the $8
grocery store protector. Same circuit. A $150 Monster Cable
protector also has that same circuit. By charging more money, the
naive (ie Christopher) somehow know Monster Cable must be better. The
naive never learn even Monster Cable has the same circuit found in an
$8 discount store protector.

Christopher Muto repeatedly makes subjective claims AND refuses to
post spec numbers. As long as he (and Bud) do not provide numbers,
then he cannot be exposed as technically ignorant. What number claims
protection? Christopher does not know. If Christopher posts a
number, then everyone would learn how technically uneducated he really
is. If that number existed, Christopher would have posted it long
ago. He posts no numbers because he does not know what any of those
numbers mean. He recommended a protector only because popular urban
myth recommends it.

In North America, APC and Tripplite reputations are similar to
Monster Cable. Companies that sell effective 'whole house' protectors
also have superior international reputations ... such as Intermatic,
General Electric, Siemens, Square D (Schneider Electric), Polyphaser,
Keison, Leviton, Cutler Hammer (Eaton), and others. These same
companies are famous for numerous, safe and reliable electrical
equipment such as junction boxes, connectors, circuit breakers,
electric monitoring equipment ... Brand names found in every new
building in North America. Only those companies also provide 'whole
house' protectors.

Why do telcos not use APC and Tripplite products? At 100 surges per
thunderstorm, telcos need protectors that connect spikes to earth AND
remain functional after every spike. Another characteristic of
effective protectors? The protector must remain functional after
diverting (the word used by Bud's NIST citation) spike energy into
earth. Effective protection means spike energy is dissipated
harmlessly in earth AND does not enter the building. Effective
protection means nobody knows the surge even existed.

Both Christopher and Bud post repeatedly and still will not provide
that spec number. As every responsible source notes, spikes must be
harmlessly dissipated in earth. US Air Force manuals also demand a
'whole house' protector and not plug-in protectors from less
responsible manufacturers such as APC and Tripplite. Like all telcos
all over the world, the US Air Force also requires effective
protection. Therefore the US Air Force states:
Install the surge protection as soon as practical where the
conductor enters the interior of the facility.


Also called a 'whole house' protector. Also not called an APC or
Tripplite product.

An effective protector connect a spike to earth. Since it does not
have that short earthing connection, how does the APC, Monster Cable,
Tripplite, or generic power strip stop spikes? Somehow it will stop a
spikes by absorbing all that energy. Well again, review those spec
numbers. A protector of hundreds of joules will absorb what three
kilometers of sky could not stop? That is also what Bud and
Christopher claim. No wonder both fear to post spec numbers.

But again, where is that manufacturer spec number that claims
protection from the typically destructive spikes? Both Bud and
Christopher refuse to provide that spec number. Neither APC nor
Tripplite make numeric protection claims. If they did, then
Christopher would have posted those numbers long ago. Christopher
cannot post 1) what does not exist and 2) what he does not understand.

Christopher recommended APC and Tripplite products anyway. He knows
those products cost more money; therefore must be better. The only
number he really understands. A protector is only as effective as its
earth ground. Effective spike protection connects massive spike
energy harmlessly into earth – as even the US Air Force demands.

Best protection for the laptop AND everything else in the building is
a properly earthed 'whole house' protector. Then protection inside
all appliances is not overwhelmed. A solution only provided by more
responsible companies - even required by all telcos and the US Air
Force.
  #20  
Old January 6th 09, 01:00 AM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
S.Lewis[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,362
Default Advice on purchasing Inspiron 1525 laptop


"Christopher Muto" wrote in message
t...
thanks bud, nice to know that someone out there can read


snip


Not to butt in, but you knew where this was headed when Mr. Whole House
Grounding entered the thread.

I shall now exit as abruptly as I entered the thread.........

;-)


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dell Inspiron 1525 Pink Laptop windchen1214 Overclocking 0 November 15th 08 09:31 PM
Need Advice in Purchasing a Laptop AK Homebuilt PC's 5 July 25th 08 03:46 AM
Inspiron 6400 - 1525 t8769 Dell Computers 0 April 11th 08 08:58 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 HardwareBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.