AMD64 or Semperon, deal or no deal?

I have been weighing up the value of these two processors
in a new system. It seems to me the two processors have
fairly similar performances in most situations but that an
AMD64 system is considerably more expensive at about
£100 - £150 more (not so easy to compare as other items
on the machines differ).
I am beginning to think that the Semperon would be a better
option for me because of the following reason - all the AMD64
systems I have seen available (at a price I am willing to pay)
appear to be socket 754, so I will be paying a highish price for
an end of line system with little or no possibility of upgradability.
If that is the case then I may as well get the cheaper Semperon
and use the fairly considerable amount of money I save to upgrade
to a 939 system (new motherboard and processor) at a later date.

Basically my only upgrade cost would be the new motherboard
which at todays prices is about £60 because I will have to buy
a new processor anyway.

A few other points:-

What are those card reader thingys and can I add one if it doesn't
have one build in.

Is the semperon 64 bit?

Does it have cool and quiet?

I think the answers depend on the processor model but I won't
know what that is in store.

Or maybe I should go for the AMD64 machine with a higher spec
(and price) even if it is end of line?

It would solve all my probs if I could get a 939 AMD64 but I don't
want to spend more than £550 (well £500 really).

It's all very confusing!!

Why are the 939 systems so hard to find at a decent price when
the motherboards don't actually cost much more (£10)?
Seems to me its a question of clearing obsolete stock and the
supply chain is basically a monopoly? (I am in the UK).

"Tad Confused" wrote in message
...
I have been weighing up the value of these two processors
in a new system. It seems to me the two processors have
fairly similar performances in most situations but that an
AMD64 system is considerably more expensive at about
£100 - £150 more (not so easy to compare as other items
on the machines differ).
I am beginning to think that the Semperon would be a better
option for me because of the following reason - all the AMD64
systems I have seen available (at a price I am willing to pay)
appear to be socket 754, so I will be paying a highish price for
an end of line system with little or no possibility of upgradability.
If that is the case then I may as well get the cheaper Semperon
and use the fairly considerable amount of money I save to upgrade
to a 939 system (new motherboard and processor) at a later date.

Basically my only upgrade cost would be the new motherboard
which at todays prices is about £60 because I will have to buy
a new processor anyway.

A few other points:-

What are those card reader thingys and can I add one if it doesn't
have one build in.

Is the semperon 64 bit?


Seems some are and some ain't, will be hard work finding out
what is in the box
http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/Default.aspx



Does it have cool and quiet?

I think the answers depend on the processor model but I won't
know what that is in store.

Or maybe I should go for the AMD64 machine with a higher spec
(and price) even if it is end of line?

It would solve all my probs if I could get a 939 AMD64 but I don't
want to spend more than £550 (well £500 really).

It's all very confusing!!

Why are the 939 systems so hard to find at a decent price when
the motherboards don't actually cost much more (£10)?
Seems to me its a question of clearing obsolete stock and the
supply chain is basically a monopoly? (I am in the UK).

"Tad Confused" wrote in message
...
I have been weighing up the value of these two processors
in a new system. It seems to me the two processors have
fairly similar performances in most situations but that an
AMD64 system is considerably more expensive at about
£100 - £150 more (not so easy to compare as other items
on the machines differ).

Basically my only upgrade cost would be the new motherboard
which at todays prices is about £60 because I will have to buy
a new processor anyway.

And new RAM. Chances are that the new board will need DDR2 by that time.

A few other points:-

What are those card reader thingys and can I add one if it doesn't
have one build in.

You can add a memory card reader. There are lots out there and they are
pretty cheap!
Or maybe I should go for the AMD64 machine with a higher spec
(and price) even if it is end of line?

You need to ask yourself two basic questions...

- Will I use this same machine, unupgraded for 2 or more years?

- Do I plan to do any gaming on this PC?

I built my current PC about 30 months ago. I didn't scrimp (but kept away
from leading edge) so the machine has been a joy to use. I'm planning on
replacing it finally, but only because we want a PVR. My current machine
will take over the PVR function and I'll get a new machine. I probably could
have used this PC for another year or two without any problems.

So, if this machine will stay unupgraded within two years, get whatever
technology fits your budget and plan to replace the whole machine at the end
of it's life. This is usually the best strategy for most users.

If you plan to upgrade bits here and there, then you need to plan your
strategy. You can pick up a cheap socket 939 mainboard these days. A Sempron
may do OK for a while. You really need to plan your upgrades in advance.

If you are going to do any gaming, then forget about saving any money. Get a
good processor, decent video card, then build your PC around that. 512meg of
memory will be OK, but 1gig is better. Don't worry about getting super fast,
low latency memory as it really adds to the cost - but don't get cheapo
either.

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:58:59 GMT, "Tad Confused"
wrote:

A few other points:-

What are those card reader thingys and can I add one if it doesn't
have one build in.

I had one on my caompaq and I trashed my compaq soon after I got it. I
disconnected the card reader that came free on that bareboens system I
got cheap. It was a 3200 AMD 64 754 socket. I never use it. The only
thing that could use it are my camera cards but I can easily use the
USB cable that came with the camera to transfer data rather than
taking the card out and shoving it into the PC card reader.

For me it was hogging resources too in WIN XP. I tried to add a TV
tuner to the Compaq and I kept getting out of resources
warnings/errors. I was wondering what the heck that was and looked
through device manager and found that if I disabled the card reader
which was shown as 6 different devices I was able to install the
tuner.

The first thing I did was trash the case and the card reader and
siwtched motherboards. A lot of the low end systems come with graphics
builtin , microATX boards with 3 slots. This was a SIS chip MB from
ASUS. I swapped for a nforce3 full ATX board and a new case.


Is the semperon 64 bit?

Does it have cool and quiet?

Im pretty sure it does but not all are 64 bit. The older semprons
werent the newer ones are. I thought by now ALL were 64 bit but I saw
some posts from people who bought the FRYs deals - a US store that
often has combo sempron + MBs on sale. They were differentiating the
models of 2800 and 3100 semprons --- which were 64 bit etc. Some are
said to OC better than others and they switched the manufacturing
pricess from 130 and 90 nm on them. Once again I thought by now they
were all 90 nm.

The thing is - Ive always heard the semprons OCed well and Ive seen
some tests in the past where they were darn close to the AMD 64 stock
speeds after being OCed. However Im trying to find some reviews right
now of OCed 2800s since I bought several of the combos Nforce3 + 2800
semprons and I want to see how close I can get to a 3200 or higher AMD
64.

Ive got the 754 socket 3200 AMD 64 too like I mentioned and a 939 X2
dual core 3800.


It would solve all my probs if I could get a 939 AMD64 but I don't
want to spend more than £550 (well £500 really).

In the US you can probably get that farily easily with rebate deals. I
got my 754 socket system froim compaq for I think 200 bucks close to
Jan/feb I think. People have gotten Compaq systems for lower since
then. However that doesnt help ypu if you are in the UK of course.

Why are the 939 systems so hard to find at a decent price when
the motherboards don't actually cost much more (£10)?
Seems to me its a question of clearing obsolete stock and the
supply chain is basically a monopoly? (I am in the UK).

Well the 929 isnt in the clearance phase yet. Maybe late next year
youll see them clearance out and some systems cheap. That would happen
far after the M2s were out and started coming down in price. Then the
939s would begin the phase out.

But like I said 939 systems can be found reasonably cheap here but
only with coupon/rebate deals during special sales. The processor
surprisingly has held up or leveled off in price. Often graphics cards
and processors and other things after falling to a certain point
everyone expects them to keep falling at the same rate but they dont.
They level off and sit there. The 3000 and 3200 AMD 64 for some reason
I expected them to be under 100 by now since they had been falling
fast but the sempron has taken the sub 100 space and the 3200 has
stayed at the 140 level for a long time. That puts a floor on how low
the systems will go to some extent. You can still find systems cheaper
than 600-700 US dollars though fairly easily though all the low end
systems are semprons and 754 64s.

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 01:03:20 GMT, "Tad Confused"
wrote:


Seems some are and some ain't, will be hard work finding out
what is in the box
http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/Default.aspx


A lot of places have it in their advertisements now sempron 64.
I guess it will be hard to tell though if its in a system build and
the builder doesnt want to say.

See
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819104245

Check it with Central brain identifier after you get it.
http://cbid.amdclub.ru/

The posts I see claim the 2800 doesnt have Cool N quiet.
In Wikipedia it says 3000+ sempron 64s use cool n quiet.
One post says dont use Cool n quiet when OCing.

Ocing --- the 2800 people say they get 2.0-2.2 fairly easy putting it
in 3200 AMD 64 territory. The 3100 up close to 3500 AMD 64 territory.

"Tad Confused" wrote in message
...
I have been weighing up the value of these two processors
in a new system. It seems to me the two processors have
fairly similar performances in most situations but that an
AMD64 system is considerably more expensive at about
£100 - £150 more (not so easy to compare as other items
on the machines differ).
I am beginning to think that the Semperon would be a better
option for me because of the following reason - all the AMD64
systems I have seen available (at a price I am willing to pay)
appear to be socket 754, so I will be paying a highish price for
an end of line system with little or no possibility of upgradability.
If that is the case then I may as well get the cheaper Semperon
and use the fairly considerable amount of money I save to upgrade
to a 939 system (new motherboard and processor) at a later date.

Basically my only upgrade cost would be the new motherboard
which at todays prices is about £60 because I will have to buy
a new processor anyway.

A few other points:-

What are those card reader thingys and can I add one if it doesn't
have one build in.

Is the semperon 64 bit?

Does it have cool and quiet?

I think the answers depend on the processor model but I won't
know what that is in store.

Or maybe I should go for the AMD64 machine with a higher spec
(and price) even if it is end of line?

It would solve all my probs if I could get a 939 AMD64 but I don't
want to spend more than £550 (well £500 really).

It's all very confusing!!

Why are the 939 systems so hard to find at a decent price when
the motherboards don't actually cost much more (£10)?
Seems to me its a question of clearing obsolete stock and the
supply chain is basically a monopoly? (I am in the UK).

I actually just read a review on www.tomshardware.com (sorry dont' ahve the
exact link, so a search for athlong 64 or sempron 64) but from their article
they said it's best to go witha slower athlon 64 machine than a higher end
semperon. (main reason that sempron is old motherboard and athlon can be
bought on the new 939 boards (which ironically, are now going to be obsolete
by the new M2 socket). I'm currently in the same suitation, looking for a
cheap computer, and I think I'm going to go with an athlon 64 939 mainly
because of a lot less limited upgrade path. (think about it, could get the
cheapest 939 athlon and in a year or so upgrade to what is the fastest at
this current time and save a bundle). if your not doing any gaming, thats
how I'd go.

Heres another clue.

I got the 2800

SDA2800BA BOX - the BA as its sometimes referred to.
The BX I definitely is 64 bits and SSE3.

The BA -- was only 32bits but even they have the 64 bit enabled now.
They started shipping them in the second half of 2005 so I imagine its
relatively rare to find a 32 but nowadays but I may be wrong. The BA
doesnt have SSE3 ---- not sure if its even slightly important or not.

The one defintely 64 bit SDA2800BX BOX. Box I take it refers to the
retail box version which i got with the board , meaning 3 year
warranty and fan included.

I also noticed some boxes on the 2800 series have 64 bit at the bottom
right hand corner. The thing is these arent on all the 64 bit CPUs
for some reason I think. Are they on the BX boxes and not the BAs ?
Who knows.

wrote in message
news
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 01:03:20 GMT, "Tad Confused"
wrote:


Seems some are and some ain't, will be hard work finding out
what is in the box
http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/Default.aspx


A lot of places have it in their advertisements now sempron 64.
I guess it will be hard to tell though if its in a system build and
the builder doesnt want to say.

See
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819104245

Check it with Central brain identifier after you get it.
http://cbid.amdclub.ru/

The posts I see claim the 2800 doesnt have Cool N quiet.
In Wikipedia it says 3000+ sempron 64s use cool n quiet.
One post says dont use Cool n quiet when OCing.

Ocing --- the 2800 people say they get 2.0-2.2 fairly easy putting it
in 3200 AMD 64 territory. The 3100 up close to 3500 AMD 64 territory.

I suspect that the machine I am looking at:-
http://www.currys.co.uk/product.php?...amp_id=froogle
uses this processor (its just says semperon not semperon64):-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16819104220

However the reviews for it are very positive even if it is not a 64.

Mind you it might be this one (the 64) it's hard to say because the shop
selling them is pretty useless but I somehow doubt they would miss the
oppertunity to sell it as a 64.
I guess I could go to the store and ask the useless staff if I want to
waste my time, I hink I would need to open up the machine to be sure
but I am sure there are some software progs which would confirm
the identity of the processor (or something in the operating system)
I could click (I would appreciate any help here as I am not familiar with
windows XP, as I use W98 where the system icon in the control
panel might help you.

I find it really annoying that you cannot find out what you are
buying and that even the manufacturers appear unable to
supply the info.

Maybe it would be better to get an Intel.!!

"Dr Nick" wrote in message
news:S2A_f.6771$EA3.4280@dukeread10...

"Tad Confused" wrote in message
...
I have been weighing up the value of these two processors
in a new system. It seems to me the two processors have
fairly similar performances in most situations but that an
AMD64 system is considerably more expensive at about
£100 - £150 more (not so easy to compare as other items
on the machines differ).
I am beginning to think that the Semperon would be a better
option for me because of the following reason - all the AMD64
systems I have seen available (at a price I am willing to pay)
appear to be socket 754, so I will be paying a highish price for
an end of line system with little or no possibility of upgradability.
If that is the case then I may as well get the cheaper Semperon
and use the fairly considerable amount of money I save to upgrade
to a 939 system (new motherboard and processor) at a later date.

Basically my only upgrade cost would be the new motherboard
which at todays prices is about £60 because I will have to buy
a new processor anyway.

A few other points:-

What are those card reader thingys and can I add one if it doesn't
have one build in.

Is the semperon 64 bit?

Does it have cool and quiet?

I think the answers depend on the processor model but I won't
know what that is in store.

Or maybe I should go for the AMD64 machine with a higher spec
(and price) even if it is end of line?

It would solve all my probs if I could get a 939 AMD64 but I don't
want to spend more than £550 (well £500 really).

It's all very confusing!!

Why are the 939 systems so hard to find at a decent price when
the motherboards don't actually cost much more (£10)?
Seems to me its a question of clearing obsolete stock and the
supply chain is basically a monopoly? (I am in the UK).

I actually just read a review on www.tomshardware.com (sorry dont' ahve
the
exact link, so a search for athlong 64 or sempron 64) but from their
article
they said it's best to go witha slower athlon 64 machine than a higher
end
semperon. (main reason that sempron is old motherboard and athlon can be
bought on the new 939 boards (which ironically, are now going to be
obsolete
by the new M2 socket). I'm currently in the same suitation, looking for a
cheap computer, and I think I'm going to go with an athlon 64 939 mainly
because of a lot less limited upgrade path. (think about it, could get the
cheapest 939 athlon and in a year or so upgrade to what is the fastest at
this current time and save a bundle). if your not doing any gaming, thats
how I'd go.


That is what I used to think however I an f**ked if I can find a athlon 64
at a reasonable price and the ones I can find are almost certaintly 745
versions.
(it seems impossible to find out untill you have bought the machine).

The situation I seem to be in is that I will have to pay an extra £150 for
the athlon64 with a 200gig drive and 256 graphics as opposed to
a semperon with an 80gig drive and 64meg graphics.
I estimate the 200gig drive is worth £30 more so that leaves £120
for the graphics (which I aint to bothered about) and the AMD64
which is actually 745 anyway, so if I am buying an unupgradable
system I might as well get the cheaper won (£400 v £550).
The main problem is I can't find 939 systems and a 939 mobo
dont cost that much (£60?) which is small compared to the
£150 or much more I would have to pay for a 939 system.
It's annoying though, I am gonna take a look on ebay.



or

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:54:51 GMT, "Tad Confused"
wrote:

I find it really annoying that you cannot find out what you are
buying and that even the manufacturers appear unable to
supply the info.

Maybe it would be better to get an Intel.!!

Well in this case its difficult cause its such subtle information. Its
not like you are asking if theres a 3100 or 3400 . Also its prebuilt
so they wouldnt know the exact chip details unless Packard Bell
provided the info.

You know I dont see that model at their site. In fact I didnt even
know PB was still in business. The last time I saw one was in the late
90s when a neighbor bought one. They used to be a popular super low
end brand like emachines but they seemed to have disappeared around
here.

Anyway I only see the 1308 which has a INTEL chip. Does that mean the
1309 is a new model? If thats the case they might be using new chips
and it seems like ALL the new sempron 2800s and 3100s are ALL 64 bit
now. Of course I cant guarantee that.

I noticed there are cheap refurb models here

Dont know the Euro mkt so this may be a sleazy seller or there may be
some catch like shipping etc . These are refurbs though but they have
some straight AMD 3400 systems for cheap.
http://www.europc.co.uk/pages/Produc...aspx?PID=52240