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Trouble booting now totally out of service



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 16th 05, 12:17 AM
kony
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:10:25 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:


The one I found is the Biostar M7VKE Socket A at:
http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product_info.php?products_id=3624m Since the board I'm replacing is a
Chips & Technologies M805LR with VIA KT133 chipset, AMD Duron and Athlon Socket A, PC133 SDRAM up to 1
GB, and AGP 4X (AGP2.0), the specs are very close.


That's not a very high quality board, though it might be
sufficient for a couple years use. It isn't KT133 though,
it's the integrated-video version of it. That may be fine,
windows may make the minor changes (which are only device
names, functionally it's the same chipset plus the video),
but I'd think it might be better to go with the KT133A since
you don't need the integrated video.




But possible concerns a
They only mention the VIA VT8365 chipset which is also used in the KT133, but that is only the
Northbridge portion of the whole set per http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/legacy/km133/ and
I wonder what they use for the Southbridge portion and if the omission is hiding something.


You might Google for reviews and tech specs of that board,
though usually they'd use the same southbridge. The picture
shows ATA100 sticker on it, probably that means the 686B
southbridge. You can simply read the markings on your
current board's southbridge to determine which it is.



"Supports up to 1024 MB SDRAM"; "Two 168-pin DIMM sockets" which is all correct, but I wonder why they
don't mention PC100/133 like everyone else has?


Some specs are often omitted by sellers. Some even by
manufacturers on their product pages, especially with the
cheap, lesser supported boards. IMO, you'd be better off to
keep looking for a better brand of board, as boards this old
have alread depreciated, a better board shouldn't cost much
more. Even so, I expect the board would work... but I'd
check on a bios update on Biostar's site, I would not want
to run a cheap(ly supported) board on an early bios version.



They just mention AGP slot without mentioning any specs.


Board is 4X AGP, it'll support your present card.


Condition "PULLS", whatever definition they give to that term.


Usually means an old retired box had a board that still
worked- it's used most often, and probably used a lot.
It could even have caps that are failing already but not
completely dead.

I wouldn't buy an old pull, not after this much time has
passsed since it was new. Pull could equal refurb, but I'd
be inclinded to think a pull was less desirable than a
refurb.



7 day return window, $8.95 for a 1 year warrantee. Guess it's really a $39.95 mb. :-) 7 days is too
close for my taste given that there are other unknowns with this system in getting it up & running.

All in all, they are sort of loose and lack the type of precision in describing their products that most
of the other websites I've seen have. They don't even give the board dimensions except to say mATX.


I would keep looking... not a very good board for multiple
reasons mentioned.
  #22  
Old June 16th 05, 09:34 PM
Robert Heiling
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kony wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:10:25 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:

The one I found is the Biostar M7VKE Socket A at:
http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product_info.php?products_id=3624m Since the board I'm replacing is a
Chips & Technologies M805LR with VIA KT133 chipset, AMD Duron and Athlon Socket A, PC133 SDRAM up to 1
GB, and AGP 4X (AGP2.0), the specs are very close.


That's not a very high quality board,
[.....]
I would keep looking... not a very good board for multiple
reasons mentioned.


Thanks for that feedback. I had been feeling rather queasy about it already and that clinches it. There was
almost another site that had that board also, but the site didn't work so there are no other better sources
for that same Biostart mb. The MSI MS-6340M simply isn't available and Abit & Asus don't seem to have made an
equivalent. Gigabyte made a GA-7ZMMHC which would do the job, but the only one I've seen (Baber) was priced
at $97. I think I'm going in circles, so I probably should drop it for awhile. Since that Biostar availablity
came up just last month, maybe I should just check periodically to view the changing scenery.

In the meantime, I've set the system up on my workbench where I can put some decent light on it instead of a
flashlight. Realizing that I hadn't swapped out the new AGP card to see if it had failed, I swapped the old
ATI Radeon back in and all behavior is identical unfortunately. Just saw that monitor info might be helpful
and it's a very old Gateway Vivitron 1776 CPD-17F13

State | Power consumption| Required Resumption time | Power Indicator| Power Saving Indicator

Normal op| 100% | none | green on | orange off
Suspend | ~10% | ~3 sec | green on | orange on
Active-off| ~6% | ~10sec | green off| orange on

What I observe on the monitor is that the screen stays dark and the orange led is on steady, but the green
led comes on for a few seconds (~5-10), goes of for a few, then back on and repeats the pattern. The green-on
periods are the longer length since the system has been on some time. Pressing the front panel reset has no
effect on the led state. If we explained that previous behavior of not booting until warmed up by a vented
capacitor instead of cracked solder, could the current behavior be explained the same way by a capacitor
gradually building up a charge and then losing the charge because of the venting damage? But again, those
time periods are close to the chart, so maybe that's what's going on, but the computer is definitely
triggering it somehow.

Sure hope you haven't got tired of all these questions! :-)

Bob



  #23  
Old June 17th 05, 12:24 AM
kony
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Default

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:34:33 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:

snip

What I observe on the monitor is that the screen stays dark and the orange led is on steady, but the green
led comes on for a few seconds (~5-10), goes of for a few, then back on and repeats the pattern. The green-on
periods are the longer length since the system has been on some time. Pressing the front panel reset has no
effect on the led state. If we explained that previous behavior of not booting until warmed up by a vented
capacitor instead of cracked solder, could the current behavior be explained the same way by a capacitor
gradually building up a charge and then losing the charge because of the venting damage? But again, those
time periods are close to the chart, so maybe that's what's going on, but the computer is definitely
triggering it somehow.


It would simply be explained by a slightly different output
timing of the video card's bios display (monitor signal)
then failing since the board itself isn't posting. Nothing
to be dwelling on, it is a bit irrelevant at this point.
  #24  
Old June 17th 05, 01:41 AM
Robert Heiling
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

kony wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:34:33 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:

snip

What I observe on the monitor is that the screen stays dark and the orange led is on steady, but the green
led comes on for a few seconds (~5-10), goes of for a few, then back on and repeats the pattern. The green-on
periods are the longer length since the system has been on some time. Pressing the front panel reset has no
effect on the led state. If we explained that previous behavior of not booting until warmed up by a vented
capacitor instead of cracked solder, could the current behavior be explained the same way by a capacitor
gradually building up a charge and then losing the charge because of the venting damage? But again, those
time periods are close to the chart, so maybe that's what's going on, but the computer is definitely
triggering it somehow.


It would simply be explained by a slightly different output
timing of the video card's bios display (monitor signal)
then failing since the board itself isn't posting. Nothing
to be dwelling on, it is a bit irrelevant at this point.


Noted! and many thanks again for all of the knowledgeable help you've been giving me. You've given me what I need
to know with this motherboard situation and I'll let you know how it all works out in the end.

Bob



  #25  
Old June 25th 05, 06:08 PM
Robert Heiling
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

kony wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:10:25 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:

The one I found is the Biostar M7VKE Socket A at:
http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product_info.php?products_id=3624m Since the board I'm replacing is a
PCChips M805LR with VIA KT133 chipset, AMD Duron and Athlon Socket A, PC133 SDRAM up to 1
GB, and AGP 4X (AGP2.0), the specs are very close.


That's not a very high quality board, though it might be
sufficient for a couple years use. It isn't KT133 though,
it's the integrated-video version of it. That may be fine,
windows may make the minor changes (which are only device
names, functionally it's the same chipset plus the video),
but I'd think it might be better to go with the KT133A since
you don't need the integrated video. SNIP


Sorry to bug you again on this, but I'd like your opinion if you would please. I've located another board
that fits all my specs - MSI built, Socket A, KT133, AGP, mATX, 200MHz FSB, etc and I can use my PC133
memory. They claim the boards are OEM overstock or pulls. Boards like this are pretty old and the technology
is outdated I would think, so the ones I've previously seen were priced from ~$20-$32. In this case, they're
asking $80 and claim that they will have no trouble selling them at that price. Who would buy them except
people in the same boat as I am with a failed motherboard? What do you think about that $80 price? Maybe I'm
just being too conservative.

Bob

  #26  
Old June 25th 05, 07:26 PM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:08:23 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:

kony wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:10:25 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:

The one I found is the Biostar M7VKE Socket A at:
http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product_info.php?products_id=3624m Since the board I'm replacing is a
PCChips M805LR with VIA KT133 chipset, AMD Duron and Athlon Socket A, PC133 SDRAM up to 1
GB, and AGP 4X (AGP2.0), the specs are very close.


That's not a very high quality board, though it might be
sufficient for a couple years use. It isn't KT133 though,
it's the integrated-video version of it. That may be fine,
windows may make the minor changes (which are only device
names, functionally it's the same chipset plus the video),
but I'd think it might be better to go with the KT133A since
you don't need the integrated video. SNIP


Sorry to bug you again on this, but I'd like your opinion if you would please. I've located another board
that fits all my specs - MSI built, Socket A, KT133, AGP, mATX, 200MHz FSB, etc and I can use my PC133
memory. They claim the boards are OEM overstock or pulls. Boards like this are pretty old and the technology
is outdated I would think, so the ones I've previously seen were priced from ~$20-$32. In this case, they're
asking $80 and claim that they will have no trouble selling them at that price. Who would buy them except
people in the same boat as I am with a failed motherboard? What do you think about that $80 price? Maybe I'm
just being too conservative.



$80 is a bit overpriced, they might not've cost that much at
many vendors when brand new and modern technology. I can't
help but think the whole reason they still have them is
because nobody pays $80 for it these days. Even so, this
can be what happens to older hardware- the lowest cost
vendors sell out and so on, till online the high-priced
options remain.

"Overstock or pulls" is a pretty big difference though...
No way I'd pay $80 for a pull today.

Here's one for $40, there may be others if you look around
the 'net.
http://www.targetpcinc.com/Details.a...mID=2485&Res=2

I"m not claiming it's a great board, but rather I have no
experience with it and generally avoid Chaintech. Even so,
$40 less with option to return it if it doesn't work right
seems a worthwhile risk.


Then again, it could be time to bite the bullet and upgrade
the whole system, or at least a newer motherboard and some
DDR memory. This is also another reason it's good to avoid
mATX cases- as there were more KT133 full ATX boards at the
time, and still a few more today.
  #27  
Old June 25th 05, 11:12 PM
CBFalconer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Robert Heiling wrote:
kony wrote:

.... snip ...

That's not a very high quality board, though it might be
sufficient for a couple years use. It isn't KT133 though,
it's the integrated-video version of it. That may be fine,
windows may make the minor changes (which are only device
names, functionally it's the same chipset plus the video),
but I'd think it might be better to go with the KT133A since
you don't need the integrated video. SNIP


Sorry to bug you again on this, but I'd like your opinion if you
would please. I've located another board that fits all my specs -
MSI built, Socket A, KT133, AGP, mATX, 200MHz FSB, etc is outdated
I would think, so the ones I've previously seen were priced from
~$20-$32. In this case, they're asking $80 and claim that they
will have no trouble selling them at that price. Who would buy
them except people in the same boat as I am with a failed
motherboard? What do you think about that $80 price? Maybe I'm
just being too conservative.


Please control your linelength. Lines should not exceed 72 chars,
and a 65 limit is better. I reformatted this.

Why get an inferior MB? Directron.com has complete 450 Mhz
systems, with HD, CPU, Video, Networking, Audio, DVD, case, PS
available for USD 69. The one I got even has ECC capabilities, but
not ECC memory.


--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson


  #28  
Old June 26th 05, 01:46 AM
Robert Heiling
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

CBFalconer wrote:

Robert Heiling wrote:
kony wrote:

... snip ...

That's not a very high quality board, though it might be
sufficient for a couple years use. It isn't KT133 though,
it's the integrated-video version of it. That may be fine,
windows may make the minor changes (which are only device
names, functionally it's the same chipset plus the video),
but I'd think it might be better to go with the KT133A since
you don't need the integrated video. SNIP


Sorry to bug you again on this, but I'd like your opinion if you
would please. I've located another board that fits all my specs -
MSI built, Socket A, KT133, AGP, mATX, 200MHz FSB, etc is outdated
I would think, so the ones I've previously seen were priced from
~$20-$32. In this case, they're asking $80 and claim that they
will have no trouble selling them at that price. Who would buy
them except people in the same boat as I am with a failed
motherboard? What do you think about that $80 price? Maybe I'm
just being too conservative.


Please control your linelength. Lines should not exceed 72 chars,
and a 65 limit is better.


I completely agree. I've recently been having an intermitant problem
with this Netscape in that regard and haven't had the time to
troubleshoot it. It has been set at 72 for an eternity.

I reformatted this.


I wish I had all that extra time on my hands. :-)

Why get an inferior MB? Directron.com has complete 450 Mhz


Oh! I see! Go *all the way* and get an inferior system?

systems, with HD, CPU, Video, Networking, Audio, DVD, case, PS
available for USD 69. The one I got even has ECC capabilities, but
not ECC memory.


You really must be kidding me and I can take a joke, but I'll sell you
the working P-233 mmx in my garage that this one replaced for even
less than that. For only the price of a replacement motherboard, I can
use my own case, AGP board, 1/2 gig of PC133 memory, Athlon 1MHz,
CPU, WD disk drives, etc. Why in the world would I want to buy your
ancient system at any price?

Bob

  #29  
Old June 26th 05, 03:21 AM
Robert Heiling
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

kony wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:08:23 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:

kony wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:10:25 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:

The one I found is the Biostar M7VKE Socket A at:
http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product_info.php?products_id=3624m Since the board I'm replacing is a
PCChips M805LR with VIA KT133 chipset, AMD Duron and Athlon Socket A, PC133 SDRAM up to 1
GB, and AGP 4X (AGP2.0), the specs are very close.

That's not a very high quality board, though it might be
sufficient for a couple years use. It isn't KT133 though,
it's the integrated-video version of it. That may be fine,
windows may make the minor changes (which are only device
names, functionally it's the same chipset plus the video),
but I'd think it might be better to go with the KT133A since
you don't need the integrated video. SNIP


Sorry to bug you again on this, but I'd like your opinion if you would please. I've located another board
that fits all my specs - MSI built, Socket A, KT133, AGP, mATX, 200MHz FSB, etc and I can use my PC133
memory. They claim the boards are OEM overstock or pulls. Boards like this are pretty old and the technology
is outdated I would think, so the ones I've previously seen were priced from ~$20-$32. In this case, they're
asking $80 and claim that they will have no trouble selling them at that price. Who would buy them except
people in the same boat as I am with a failed motherboard? What do you think about that $80 price? Maybe I'm
just being too conservative.


$80 is a bit overpriced, they might not've cost that much at
many vendors when brand new and modern technology. I can't
help but think the whole reason they still have them is
because nobody pays $80 for it these days. Even so, this
can be what happens to older hardware- the lowest cost
vendors sell out and so on, till online the high-priced
options remain.

"Overstock or pulls" is a pretty big difference though...
No way I'd pay $80 for a pull today.


Thanks for the confirmation.

Here's one for $40, there may be others if you look around
the 'net.
http://www.targetpcinc.com/Details.a...mID=2485&Res=2


Thanks! That's a good one and I don't know how I missed it. It
looks good and they have a standard 90 day warranty and the
other outfit gave only 30 days. I've emailed them to see if the
boards are new, refurb, used, etc? Probably won't hear now until
Monday, but I'll order it unless the response is bad news.

I"m not claiming it's a great board, but rather I have no
experience with it and generally avoid Chaintech. Even so,
$40 less with option to return it if it doesn't work right
seems a worthwhile risk.


I agree. That name is a turnoff though and reminds me of
"chainsaw".g

Then again, it could be time to bite the bullet and upgrade
the whole system, or at least a newer motherboard and some
DDR memory. This is also another reason it's good to avoid
mATX cases- as there were more KT133 full ATX boards at the
time, and still a few more today.


I had been looking around for a bundled cpu & motherboard, Intel
or Athlon, that would take my PC133 when I found that other one
on a side track. In the final anlysis, I could just simply go
out and buy a new system, but this one is entirely adequate for
my wife's purposes and anything faster is simply overkill.

Thanks again!

Bob


  #30  
Old June 28th 05, 01:38 AM
Robert Heiling
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Robert Heiling wrote:

kony wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:08:23 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote:
kony wrote:


snip

Here's one for $40, there may be others if you look around
the 'net.
http://www.targetpcinc.com/Details.a...mID=2485&Res=2


Thanks! That's a good one and I don't know how I missed it. It
looks good and they have a standard 90 day warranty and the
other outfit gave only 30 days. I've emailed them to see if the
boards are new, refurb, used, etc? Probably won't hear now until
Monday, but I'll order it unless the response is bad news.


An email came today to let me know that the boards are _new_ OEM. It's
sort of funny because they also added that info to the website and in
*red*.g In any case, I ordered that board and I'll let you know how
it all works out after I finish the job and my wife has her computer
back.

Bob

 




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