USB 2 and Intel's ICH5 chip

I've had this P4C800-E Deluxe (read expensive) mobo, running a P4 3.00
GHz cpu, for about 2 years or a bit less, and the usb 2 operation has
always been a bit flaky. Well, I did a clean install three days ago,
Win 2000 Pro with SP4, and I tried everything to get the ICH5 usb 2
enhanced host controller to work, without significant success.
Installing the driver from the Asus CD that came with the mobo always
fell over with a message saying 'the installation failed because a
function driver was not specified for this instance' - which would win a
prize in a gobbledegook contest.

The Intel ICH5 driver failed, the Win 2000 SP4 driver failed,
Driverguide.com wasn't any help, and I scoured the 'net looking for info
on usb 2 and the above message, also without success (but did find that
it wasn't an unknown problem). Attempting to install peripherals didn't
work, and looking at the usb ports with Usb Monitor showed the
controller reporting the peripherals with the message 'unknown device
failed enumeration'.

Disabling the usb 2 function in the bios, and letting all ports run on
1.1 worked immediately, though too slow for my scanner, but re-enabling
the usb 2 enhanced controller, whether in full- or hi-speed mode, just
would not see the peripherals.

I happened to have on hand a 5-port usb 2 PCI card with a NEC chip on
board from another older computer, so in desperation I disabled the ICH5
enhanced controller and installed the NEC PCI card. Immediately, the OS
saw the card and installed the correct NEC driver, and then correctly
saw and enabled my two printers and the scanner, in less time than it
took to type this. Usb Monitor also reported all was correct.

After wasting three days on this problem, I am somewhat peeweed off with
this board and/or the usb controller chip, so I come finally to the
question I started out to ask, namely, do Asus boards in general have
problems with USB ports, and/or is the Intel ICH5 chip reliable or
flaky? I seem to remember something about this problem some time ago in
this NG.

If the NEC board continues to function, I'll get a newer one as a
permanent replacement. But I'd like to know just what the problem is
with this Asus board. Any enlightenment welcome.

Thanks,

Colin D.

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In article , ColinD wrote:

I've had this P4C800-E Deluxe (read expensive) mobo, running a P4 3.00
GHz cpu, for about 2 years or a bit less, and the usb 2 operation has
always been a bit flaky. Well, I did a clean install three days ago,
Win 2000 Pro with SP4, and I tried everything to get the ICH5 usb 2
enhanced host controller to work, without significant success.
Installing the driver from the Asus CD that came with the mobo always
fell over with a message saying 'the installation failed because a
function driver was not specified for this instance' - which would win a
prize in a gobbledegook contest.

The Intel ICH5 driver failed, the Win 2000 SP4 driver failed,
Driverguide.com wasn't any help, and I scoured the 'net looking for info
on usb 2 and the above message, also without success (but did find that
it wasn't an unknown problem). Attempting to install peripherals didn't
work, and looking at the usb ports with Usb Monitor showed the
controller reporting the peripherals with the message 'unknown device
failed enumeration'.

Disabling the usb 2 function in the bios, and letting all ports run on
1.1 worked immediately, though too slow for my scanner, but re-enabling
the usb 2 enhanced controller, whether in full- or hi-speed mode, just
would not see the peripherals.

I happened to have on hand a 5-port usb 2 PCI card with a NEC chip on
board from another older computer, so in desperation I disabled the ICH5
enhanced controller and installed the NEC PCI card. Immediately, the OS
saw the card and installed the correct NEC driver, and then correctly
saw and enabled my two printers and the scanner, in less time than it
took to type this. Usb Monitor also reported all was correct.

After wasting three days on this problem, I am somewhat peeweed off with
this board and/or the usb controller chip, so I come finally to the
question I started out to ask, namely, do Asus boards in general have
problems with USB ports, and/or is the Intel ICH5 chip reliable or
flaky? I seem to remember something about this problem some time ago in
this NG.

If the NEC board continues to function, I'll get a newer one as a
permanent replacement. But I'd like to know just what the problem is
with this Asus board. Any enlightenment welcome.

Thanks,

Colin D.


The fact that the USB ports work in USB 1.1 mode, suggests to me
the ICH5 Southbridge has not suffered a latchup failure. The USB2
versus USB1.1 logic blocks would be things located further inside
the chip, whereas as far as I know, latchup burns something in the
I/O pads. If latchup occurred, I would think you'd lose both USB1.1
and USB2 at the same time. (Latchup can be major, where there is
a burn mark above the USB I/O pins on the Southbridge, and the
computer will no longer POST. A minor failure, usually kills the USB
interfaces, but leaves you with an otherwise working computer. You
have more of a half-failure, which is different than most.)

I guess how much time you waste on this problem, really depends on
how curious you are about it. If the NEC card works, I wouldn't
even spend the time and money buying another card - just use the
one you've got. If you buy another NEC card, will it be superior
in some way ?

If you want to give the ports a fair test, disconnect all current
hard drives, connect a spare IDE drive, and do a fresh install of
Windows. Install Win2K SP4, then test the USB ports. Are they
working again ? At least this test would help you determine whether
there is something evil buried in the registry or the like, or
some unresolved driver issue.

Paul

Paul wrote:

In article , ColinD wrote:

I've had this P4C800-E Deluxe (read expensive) mobo, running a P4 3.00
GHz cpu, for about 2 years or a bit less, and the usb 2 operation has
always been a bit flaky. Well, I did a clean install three days ago,
Win 2000 Pro with SP4, and I tried everything to get the ICH5 usb 2
enhanced host controller to work, without significant success.
Installing the driver from the Asus CD that came with the mobo always
fell over with a message saying 'the installation failed because a
function driver was not specified for this instance' - which would win a
prize in a gobbledegook contest.

The Intel ICH5 driver failed, the Win 2000 SP4 driver failed,
Driverguide.com wasn't any help, and I scoured the 'net looking for info
on usb 2 and the above message, also without success (but did find that
it wasn't an unknown problem). Attempting to install peripherals didn't
work, and looking at the usb ports with Usb Monitor showed the
controller reporting the peripherals with the message 'unknown device
failed enumeration'.

Disabling the usb 2 function in the bios, and letting all ports run on
1.1 worked immediately, though too slow for my scanner, but re-enabling
the usb 2 enhanced controller, whether in full- or hi-speed mode, just
would not see the peripherals.

I happened to have on hand a 5-port usb 2 PCI card with a NEC chip on
board from another older computer, so in desperation I disabled the ICH5
enhanced controller and installed the NEC PCI card. Immediately, the OS
saw the card and installed the correct NEC driver, and then correctly
saw and enabled my two printers and the scanner, in less time than it
took to type this. Usb Monitor also reported all was correct.

After wasting three days on this problem, I am somewhat peeweed off with
this board and/or the usb controller chip, so I come finally to the
question I started out to ask, namely, do Asus boards in general have
problems with USB ports, and/or is the Intel ICH5 chip reliable or
flaky? I seem to remember something about this problem some time ago in
this NG.

If the NEC board continues to function, I'll get a newer one as a
permanent replacement. But I'd like to know just what the problem is
with this Asus board. Any enlightenment welcome.

Thanks,

Colin D.


The fact that the USB ports work in USB 1.1 mode, suggests to me
the ICH5 Southbridge has not suffered a latchup failure. The USB2
versus USB1.1 logic blocks would be things located further inside
the chip, whereas as far as I know, latchup burns something in the
I/O pads. If latchup occurred, I would think you'd lose both USB1.1
and USB2 at the same time. (Latchup can be major, where there is
a burn mark above the USB I/O pins on the Southbridge, and the
computer will no longer POST. A minor failure, usually kills the USB
interfaces, but leaves you with an otherwise working computer. You
have more of a half-failure, which is different than most.)

I guess how much time you waste on this problem, really depends on
how curious you are about it. If the NEC card works, I wouldn't
even spend the time and money buying another card - just use the
one you've got. If you buy another NEC card, will it be superior
in some way ?

If you want to give the ports a fair test, disconnect all current
hard drives, connect a spare IDE drive, and do a fresh install of
Windows. Install Win2K SP4, then test the USB ports. Are they
working again ? At least this test would help you determine whether
there is something evil buried in the registry or the like, or
some unresolved driver issue.

Paul

Thanks for that, Paul. Your suggestion of a spare drive with a fresh
install has already been done, though. I actually did a clean install
three times, with just the bare necessary programs loaded after the OS
and service packs, i.e. ZoneAlarm while accessing MS Update and then
disabled; and Usb Monitor to look at the ports. Each time I got the
'function driver not found' and 'device failed enumeration' messages.
Reverting to 1.1 then found all the peripherals, but re-enabling 2 just
went back to the same problem.

I don't fully understand the architecture of the ICH5, but it seems that
the enhanced controller is failing, maybe a lesion on the chip, or it
maybe can't handle the usb 2 clock speed, either the full speed or
hi-speed. The chip itself shows no sign of burning, and it runs
warmish, but not too hot to keep a finger on it.

Thanks again for your input,

Colin D.

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