sw7525gp2 for graphic workstation ?

Having scanned available posts in this forum, I have added JK and bullmordt
to my kill fill. I mention this so that these two can save the effort of
posting to my question.

We are considering the Intel se7525gp2 and 2 800fsb Xeon processors at 3 gig
for a graphic workstation. The only card to be used on the board will be a
x16 PCI graphic card. The board will have 2 gig of ram and will be running
XP pro.

We are concerned about several factors concerning this platform ...

Should we use the Intel sc5275-e case ?
Is the sc5275-e a noisy case, with or without the air tunnels ?
Can we get by with an Antec case and a 550 watt ps ?
Instead of the stock HSF, what are preferable aftermarket coolers ?
Is this board even to market yet ? Several venders have told me to wait
till November. New bus speed on the horizon perhaps ?

This is a serious and expensive path for us and we want to be certain of our
options and to be confident in the choices that we make. AMD is NOT
an option, so AMD lovers please bow out of this one.

We gladly welcome any additional advice that you may have.

thanks

Louis

I'm going to give some comments in a different order to your post...

This is a serious and expensive path for us and we want to be certain
of our options and to be confident in the choices that we make.

o If this is for commercial use, have you considered leasing it?
---- leasing in most countries can be expensed over time
---- capital purchases are only partly expensed & depreciated
o Many will howl over the basic idea of leasing a computer
---- you lose the asset on the balance sheet - but PCs depreciate fast
---- that asset is near end of development - re xeon skt, m/b & case form-factor
---- you gain cashflow benefits - small leasing payment vs big sunk-cost

An example would be a Dual-Xeon from Dell + you gain maintenance too.


We are considering the Intel se7525gp2 and 2 800fsb Xeon processors at 3 gig
for a graphic workstation. The only card to be used on the board will be a
x16 PCI graphic card. The board will have 2 gig of ram and will be running
XP pro.

Re memory...
o What is the Environment + Application + Data-Set?
o If Commercial + Photoshop-7 + *Film-Scanning* then 2GB may be a bit light
o At least, you might get some benefit from going beyond 2GB

Photoshop & XP aren't very memory efficient - particularly so when you thro
in film-scanning sized data-files AND consider the undo buffer & such like.
However, you can always u/g memory later if you find it an issue.


Should we use the Intel sc5275-e case ?

o Board is ATX 12"x10.6" - not E-ATX
o So board form-factor can be physically met my almost any case
o What matters is the thermal solution provided by the case

The Intel solution is focused around server usage re PSU sizing etc.


Is the sc5275-e a noisy case, with or without the air tunnels ?

You will have at least 2 major noise sources:
o CPU coolers - Xeon's tend to be quiet noisy solutions
---- Skt603 use a blow-thro heatsink tunnel with vertical 60mm fan
---- 60mm is chosen for 2U rack height compatibility - at expense of rpm
o Case coolers - Intel case cites 2 fans for main chassis, 1 for PSU
---- chassis fans will most likely be 120mm (could be twin 92mm)
---- it is an ATX chassis - so limited in ideal fan positioning like any

The power supply is an additional factor:
o Servers tend to see high-sustained CPU load + lots of HD + lots of HD I/O
---- multi-user environment has different I/O demands than single-user
---- RAID is commonly used with 15.3k-rpm SCSI for low latency (rotation/access)
---- SCSI is used for NCQ/TCQ access re-ordering, focus is access not SDTR
---- so the PSU sizing reflects this - 43A on +12V line, 600W total
o Workstations tend to see high-sustained CPU load + less HD + less HD I/O
---- single-user environment has different I/O demands to multi-user
---- focus is SDTR and not so much access (ie, IO per sec, IOPS)
---- WD Raptor 10k-rpm SATA drives provide extremely high SDTR
---- whilst some SATA drives support NCQ/TCQ the driver/card/OS doesn't as yet
---- that benefit is lesser in single-user environments over multi-user tho

So on balance the Case/PSU are focused around a server environment.
Depending on price you may be able to substitute equivalent at lower price.


Can we get by with an Antec case and a 550 watt ps ?

It comes down to your I/O requirements:
o Graphics workstations tend to need high-SDTR & high-capacity
o High-SDTR -- SATA WD Raptor 10k-rpm drives
o High-Capacity -- available in 36.4 & 74GB formats

Now 74GB, even as 2-4 drives isn't a huge amount of capacity.
So for near-line storage you may choose some 400GB 7200rpm drives.
That pushes the drive count up - and power needs - whilst keeping
the thermal & power needs still relatively less than many SCSI HDs.

The Antec 550W PSU is competent, what matters is:
o Your m/b requires 19A on the +12V line
---- before optical drives, HDs, graphics-card flying power feed
o So add in the optical drive, HD & graphics-card requirements
---- optical drives are typically 25W each
---- HD can range from 7-9w to ~22W
---- graphics card may have a 4-pin feed from the PSU

Case wise, Antec produce a case that takes a 120mm fan.
You may also want to choose a PSU that itself has a 120mm fan.
o You indicate noise is a purchase criterion
---- Dual-Xeon graphics workstation is high heat density & long usage
o So choosing large diameter fans will help noise levels
---- larger fan = larger blade swept area = lower rpm & rotor tip velocity
---- larger fan = higher static pressure = better realised airflow

Airflow wise...
o Dual Xeon 200W, Graphics 50W, HDs/Optical 150W = 400W at 100% load
o 300cfm will cool 1500W *before adjustment for airflow resistance*
o 80cfm will cool 400W, but add 50% re safety factor = 120cfm
o A 35dB(A) 120mm fan will move 85cfm, twin fans 170cfm

Remember an intake fan is additive in pressure, not in cfm - thus
an intake fan moves exhaust fan fitted-cfm closer to free-air-cfm.

There are several cases with 120mm inlet & exhaust and 120mm fan PSUs.
So I think substitution on the case front for economic grounds is sound.
The Intel case & PSU will be somewhat proprietary re replacement/cost.




Instead of the stock HSF, what are preferable aftermarket coolers ?

For noise, something that takes a larger fan than a 60mm :-)


Overall, do the usual Make or Buy:
o Make - price out building the system yourself
---- remember you become the integrator in which case
---- which means you have both control & responsibility
---- particularly consider the capital sunk - re cashflow/working-cap impact
o Buy - price out a similar spec from say Dell
---- Dell do some relatively low noise Dual-Xeon machines
---- Customisation will be very limited with such a solution
---- m/b + PSU + case are proprietary re future upgrade
---- same cashflow/working-cap impact
o Lease - this has cashflow benefits & fully expensed
---- it also has benefits where the item is near end of development
---- Skt603 + Dual-Xeon + perhaps even ATX have limited u/g scope
---- Intel aims to change skt, xeon-architecture & m/b form-factor soon
---- so buying with view to future disposal may involve a higher loss
---- leasing may allow you to upgrade within a contract review

Since you emphasise this is a serious & expensive path I would also seriously
consider leasing a dual-CPU Dell - I think min term is 24-months, price isn't
bad. Sure you don't have an asset at the end to sell or own, but the Dual-Xeon
solution is skt-603 (Intel are moving to LGA), ATX (Intel are moving to BTX,
altho BTX doesn't define solutions for dual-CPU systems necessarily), ATX in
case design (with potentially proprietary v cheaper Off-The-Shelf PSU fitted).

If you have very high near-line storage requirements - ie, you need capacity
for near-line archiving as opposed to all-out screaming fast - then you could
use an external Firewire/SATA enclosure solution for several TB from cheap 400GB
SATA drives. So you need not necessarily choose a 1-box for everything solution.

Think carefully, and as always define what you need first, then cost analysis.
--
Dorothy Bradbury