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#11
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heartofBruce wrote:
Hey David Maynard, are you the David I know? Do you work in the MSSG? Nope. A different one. Seems there's a fair number of us too because I get calls for various other 'wrong' versions of 'me' from time to time. hehe ============== Posted through www.HowToFixComputers.com/bb - free access to hardware troubleshooting newsgroups. |
#12
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I always get a kick out of people who define "professional" as 'the ones
who agree with me'. And I get just as much of a kick out of people who disagree with professionals as they are sure that they know better than the pros o. -Dave |
#13
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Dave C. wrote:
I always get a kick out of people who define "professional" as 'the ones who agree with me'. And I get just as much of a kick out of people who disagree with professionals as they are sure that they know better than the pros o. -Dave I have no disagreement at all with 'professionals'. It is YOU I have a disagreement with. |
#14
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"Dave C." said:
Now what if 15 bazillion other drivers swore up and down that it was OK to start an engine with no oil in it, and that it runs just fine that way? Dave, you are only making yourself look foolish. Educate yourself on overclocking so that you can at least object intelligently. Yes, there are potential drawbacks to overclocking, and yes, anyone whose primary concern is stability should not run their hardware above spec. (They should stick to intel chips exclusively IMO. Not that AMDs are unstable, but I have never had a VIA based motherboard that was 100% stable. I don't know how the nvidia boards are.) In my experience, if a machine is stable to begin with, it will be stable when moderately overclocked. I suppose saying so makes me an 'idiot', but at least I know the difference between putting lubricant on moving parts and running electronics beyond spec. -- Mac Cool |
#15
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Mac Cool wrote: "Dave C." said: Now what if 15 bazillion other drivers swore up and down that it was OK to start an engine with no oil in it, and that it runs just fine that way? Dave, you are only making yourself look foolish. Educate yourself on overclocking so that you can at least object intelligently. Yes, there are potential drawbacks to overclocking, and yes, anyone whose primary concern is stability should not run their hardware above spec. (They should stick to intel chips exclusively IMO. Not that AMDs are unstable, but I have never had a VIA based motherboard that was 100% stable. If you hate Via chipsets for any reason(even though the current ones are quite good), you could choose a motherboard for an Athlon XP or Athlon 64 with an Nvidia chipset. So a dislike of Via chipsets should not be a reason to avoid AMD processors. I don't know how the nvidia boards are.) They are also good, as are the current Via chipsets. Intel has had issues with past chipsets, yet you only want to have a boycott of Via for their past mistakes, and not a boycott of Intel. In my experience, if a machine is stable to begin with, it will be stable when moderately overclocked. not necessarily true. I suppose saying so makes me an 'idiot' Not an idiot, but perhaps a risk taker? When you drive, do you like to go above the speed limit. , but at least I know the difference between putting lubricant on moving parts and running electronics beyond spec. -- Mac Cool |
#16
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"Mac Cool" wrote in message ... "Dave C." said: Now what if 15 bazillion other drivers swore up and down that it was OK to start an engine with no oil in it, and that it runs just fine that way? Dave, you are only making yourself look foolish. Educate yourself on overclocking so that you can at least object intelligently. Yes, there are potential drawbacks to overclocking, and yes, anyone whose primary concern is stability should not run their hardware above spec. Well, that's a good start. It's not just stability that you need to worry about. Try doing a study on MTBF and how heat affects it. I'm not talking system temperature or CPU temperature . . . I'm talking about internal IC temperatures. Now keep in mind that overclocking affects every component in your computer, not just the CPU. Even if you have a stable overclocked system, you have shortened the life of every component in your PC by overclocking it. That's WITHOUT messing around with voltages. Some overclockers find it necessary to tweak voltages to achieve stability, greatly increasing internally generated heat of vital components. So you add extra cooling, right? Guess what . . . that only gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when you watch your system temperatures drop. You need the extra cooling because the ICs are generating more heat internally. In other words, they are already damaged. The extra cooling does squat. I know there are people who don't CARE how long their computer lasts, as they are going to sell it in a year or (better yet) pass it off to their mother-in-law whom they really don't like much. Overclocking is still a bad idea for those folks. To "overclock correctly" (now there's an oxymoron), you need to put a lot of time and effort into researching the proper components that will not only overclock well, but work well with all other components when THEY are overclocked. Plus you need to upgrade certain components, like better cases, more expensive RAM, adding extra cooling fans or more expensive HSF solutions for your CPU . . . and that's just to mention a few. If you look at the time and effort (and money) you spend on "overclocking correctly", you'll find you could have spent the same amount of money (time is money also, remember) on building a faster system that runs at factory specifications. Or as I've said many times, if you need a faster system, build it. -Dave |
#17
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Dave C. wrote:
"Mac Cool" wrote in message ... "Dave C." said: Now what if 15 bazillion other drivers swore up and down that it was OK to start an engine with no oil in it, and that it runs just fine that way? Dave, you are only making yourself look foolish. Educate yourself on overclocking so that you can at least object intelligently. Yes, there are potential drawbacks to overclocking, and yes, anyone whose primary concern is stability should not run their hardware above spec. Well, that's a good start. It's not just stability that you need to worry about. Try doing a study on MTBF and how heat affects it. I'm not talking system temperature or CPU temperature . . . I'm talking about internal IC temperatures. Now keep in mind that overclocking affects every component in your computer, not just the CPU. Even if you have a stable overclocked system, you have shortened the life of every component in your PC by overclocking it. That's WITHOUT messing around with voltages. Some overclockers find it necessary to tweak voltages to achieve stability, greatly increasing internally generated heat of vital components. So you add extra cooling, right? Guess what . . . that only gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when you watch your system temperatures drop. You need the extra cooling because the ICs are generating more heat internally. In other words, they are already damaged. The extra cooling does squat. I know there are people who don't CARE how long their computer lasts, as they are going to sell it in a year or (better yet) pass it off to their mother-in-law whom they really don't like much. Overclocking is still a bad idea for those folks. To "overclock correctly" (now there's an oxymoron), you need to put a lot of time and effort into researching the proper components that will not only overclock well, but work well with all other components when THEY are overclocked. Plus you need to upgrade certain components, like better cases, more expensive RAM, adding extra cooling fans or more expensive HSF solutions for your CPU . . . and that's just to mention a few. If you look at the time and effort (and money) you spend on "overclocking correctly", you'll find you could have spent the same amount of money (time is money also, remember) on building a faster system that runs at factory specifications. Or as I've said many times, if you need a faster system, build it. -Dave The problem I have with your 'analysis' is that you take a smidgen of information you've acquired from lord knows where and then extrapolate it to 'absolutist' hysterical assertions. For example, you make the wild 'absolutist' claim that "overclocking affects every component in your computer, not just the CPU." Now, I defy you to explain how 'every component in the computer' has even the slightest clue that the processor multiplier has been changed and that, say, an 1833 Mhz processor is being 'overclocked' to 2200 MHz instead of it being a 'legitimate' 2200 MHz processor. Or that a 300 Mhz processor, normally run on a 66 MHz Bus, is being run 450 at 100MHz FSB isn't a 'legitimate' 450Mhz/100Mhz FSB processor operating at the perfectly normal and 'officially' specified FSB? In those examples the rest of the computer will not care one WHIT, or even know, because it's only 'connection' is the perfectly normal FSB. Your 'absolutist' assertion is just plain not true. And the rest of your assertions have just as many wildly flawed hysterical extrapolations. |
#18
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The problem I have with your 'analysis' is that you take a smidgen of
information you've acquired from lord knows where and then extrapolate it to 'absolutist' hysterical assertions. For example, you make the wild 'absolutist' claim that "overclocking affects every component in your computer, not just the CPU." Now, I defy you to explain how 'every component in the computer' has even the slightest clue that the processor multiplier has been changed and that, say, an 1833 Mhz processor is being 'overclocked' to 2200 MHz instead of it being a 'legitimate' 2200 MHz processor. If you only change the Processor multiplier, that will have very little effect on the overall speed of your system, so why would an overclocker even bother? But I'll humor you. You want to know how that would affect every component in the computer. Simple, really. If the CPU speeds up, the other components don't SLOW DOWN. Think of it like a train with the CPU being the engine. If the CPU speeds up, the other components do also, or some bad things happen. -Dave |
#19
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Dave C. wrote:
The problem I have with your 'analysis' is that you take a smidgen of information you've acquired from lord knows where and then extrapolate it to 'absolutist' hysterical assertions. For example, you make the wild 'absolutist' claim that "overclocking affects every component in your computer, not just the CPU." Now, I defy you to explain how 'every component in the computer' has even the slightest clue that the processor multiplier has been changed and that, say, an 1833 Mhz processor is being 'overclocked' to 2200 MHz instead of it being a 'legitimate' 2200 MHz processor. If you only change the Processor multiplier, that will have very little effect on the overall speed of your system, so why would an overclocker even bother? Besides that comment being incorrect, it's also irrelevant as your claim about 'overclocking' had no qualifier of 'big effect' overclocking, or anything else for that matter. But I'll humor you. You want to know how that would affect every component in the computer. Simple, really. If the CPU speeds up, the other components don't SLOW DOWN. Why even say such a silly thing when no one even hinted that something might 'slow down'. The fact of the matter is, in the examples I gave, every other component in the system is operating with precisely it's specified 'official' parameters. Think of it like a train with the CPU being the engine. You should really stop trying to make analogies because the one's you pick are ridiculous. If the CPU speeds up, the other components do also, or some bad things happen. -Dave In the examples I gave, the 'chu-chu' is precisely the same speed 'chu-chu' you recommend people buy instead of achieve by overclocking so if the overclocked 'chu-chu' is going to drag them all to their doom then the 'chu-chu' you recommend people buy will too. |
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