OT Bill Gates tells senators "we need more foreign programmers to remain competitive"

John Doe writes:

The sensible solution to the Microsoft problem is separating the
operating system from the applications.

There is no Microsoft problem. The golden age of Microsoft's
dominance ended years ago and the company's position will continue to
decline in the future, although it will remain profitable for years to
come.

Microsoft owns the significant money making personal computer
applications.

Microsoft owns a suite of office-automation applications, from which
it derives a large part of its revenue. Most of the rest of its sales
revenue comes from OEM sales of Windows. The rest of the
quarter-million or so applications that run under Windows are mostly
written by someone else.

Microsoft was able to do that because it controls the application
playing field.

No, Microsoft was able to do that because the competition was inferior
at the time that the market for office tools was being sorted out.

As Microsoft gets fatter and lazier, don't be surprised if it
sucks up what's left.

As Microsoft gets fatter and lazier, it will lose market share, so I
wouldn't worry too much about that.

Microsoft and other American intellectual property makers are under
attack from the world.

Not really. Some countries are less strict in their protection of IP,
but others are more so (especially in Europe).

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Mxsmanic wrote:
John Doe writes:


The sensible solution to the Microsoft problem is separating the
operating system from the applications.


There is no Microsoft problem.

Yes there is.

Mxsmanic mxsmanic gmail.com wrote:

John Doe writes:

The sensible solution to the Microsoft problem is separating the
operating system from the applications.

Snipped a baseless irrelevant argument


Microsoft owns the significant money making personal computer
applications.

Microsoft owns a suite of office-automation applications,

At least Mxsmanic isn't calling Office a single application.


from which it derives a large part of its revenue. Most of the
rest of its sales revenue comes from OEM sales of Windows. The
rest of the quarter-million or so applications that run under
Windows are mostly written by someone else.

Name the biggest non-Microsoft owned money making application.

We've been over this before. Microsoft's revenue dwarfs the sum of
all other personal computer software publishers.


Microsoft was able to do that because it controls the application
playing field.

Snipped another baseless argument


As Microsoft gets fatter and lazier, don't be surprised if it
sucks up what's left.

As Microsoft gets fatter and lazier, it will lose market share, so
I wouldn't worry too much about that.

That's what Microsoft defenders and other clueless people were
saying during the Microsoft trial six years ago. There is no sign
whatsoever of Microsoft losing market share.


Microsoft and other American intellectual property makers are
under attack from the world.

Snipped more baseless argument











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From: Mxsmanic mxsmanic gmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: OT Bill Gates tells senators "we need more foreign programmers to remain competitive"
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 05:08:09 +0200
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"John Doe" wrote in message
...
SNIP


Of course you like the idea of being paid for helping to produce
the products you pirate. The more drain you put on our
intellectual property, the more those corporate executives will
scream for your cheap foreign labor.

I dont pirate software. I buy it.

And the cow jumps over the moon.

Maybe it does, but all my copies of Windows XP and Mandriva are paid for.



I have a sneaking suspicion that my labour doesn't come any
cheaper than yours.

You have a big ego for such small arguments.

I would characterise my ego as about normal. I feel my arguments are
stacking up well against yours.




You mustn't fall into the trap of thinking that everyone outside
of the USA has the need or inclination to pitch up there.

The USA does not have a monopoly on intellectual property or
copyright.

We produced the vast majority of intellectual property. Most other
countries watch our entertainment too. I know that for a fact
because I have collected Internet TV stations, so I know what kind
of television other countries watch.

How would you say the quality of the BBC's output compares to the US
alternatives? You have heard of the BBC right?




This is an issue which a number of more developed countries are
grappling with.

When they want our government handouts. They are happy to steal our
intellectual property.


You bang on about "Johnny foreigner" pirating software

Which is true.

Yup. You do bang on about it. At least we've agreed on something.



and in virtually the same paragraph you criticise MS for selling
cheaper versions of Windows in poor regions of the world.

That's true also.

Yippee. Another point of solidarity comrade. You did criticise MS for
selling software cheaply in poor regions of the world whilst moaning about
people from the same regions pirating it.




MS are actually fighting the piracy in a sensible way -

And fighting their inclination to go with Linux.

?? But Linux is available for nothing! And OpenOffice is available free to
both Windows and Linux users. Pah! Pretty soon these crooks will have a
monopoly!




Again, it's just bad for our economy. Letting us do the heavy
intellectual property lifting while you sit around sucking it dry
might be good for your economy in the long-run though.

Bottom line is that Microsoft make massive profits doing business
the way they want to.

The bottom line is that Microsoft Windows and Office is a cash cow
monopoly duo.

MS is a very profitable company and it is alleged that they use their strong
position in ways which restrict competition.

Amazing really, when you consider that there are completely free
alternatives available.




That's why Bill Gates is massively successful and er, you are not.
He's much cleverer than you are.

In fact you don't know that, unless you are suggesting that the
richest person is the cleverest. Gaining a stranglehold on desktop
software helped make Bill Gates & Co. filthy rich.

I'm not suggesting that the richest person is the cleverest. I'm suggesting
that Bill Gates is cleverer than you. I stand by that statement.



Obviously you aren't the cleverest since you boast about Bill Gates
being charitable. There is nothing charitable about giving away
money when you are left with more than you could spend in 100
lifetimes. It's only meaningful when you fantasize that he will toss
you a crumb.

I didn't say anything about Bill Gates being charitable.




But answer one question. Why are you cutting and pasting the
headers from other posters into your replies?

Apparently you are a new breed, a libertarian control freak.

Right. Why are you cutting and pasting the
headers from other posters into your replies?


Regards

Martin

Troll trolling


John Doe wrote:

My post was properly labeled off-topic and posted to an associated group.

But I wanted to ask David Maynard again anyway, does Microsoft
possess monopoly power over the personal computer desktop operating
system market? In other words, is Windows a monopoly?


David Maynard nospam private.net wrote:


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From: David Maynard nospam private.net
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: OT Bill Gates tells senators "we need more foreign programmers to remain competitive"
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Troll

John Doe wrote:


Bill Gates was in Washington this week, as usual lobbying for an
increase in H-1B visas. The richest man in the world earned his keep
when he looked our president in the eye and (without laughing) said
"Microsoft needs cheap, easy to control foreign programmers to
remain competitive". Both Bill Gates and our president probably get
a good laugh out of that one.

Microsoft doesn't want to pay for education and training of American
programmers. Instead of giving Americans the jobs, Microsoft would
rather import easy to control low-wage programmers. Since
Americans are under strict intellectual property law, they do
however have to pay to maintain Microsoft's empire. On the other
hand, many other countries have no intellectual property law or
don't enforce it, so they get Windows for free. The easy to
control imported programmer sends much of his Microsoft money home
to where his countrymen don't even pay for Windows.

That can't be good for our economy. There's something very wrong
about the New World order especially as it relates to intellectual
property.

"Schrodinger's cat" martin scotland.org wrote:

"John Doe" jdoe usenet.love.invalid wrote in message


I dont pirate software. I buy it.

And the cow jumps over the moon.

Maybe it does, but none of my copies of Windows XP and Mandriva
are paid for.

I have a sneaking suspicion that my labour doesn't come any
cheaper than yours.

You have a big ego for such small arguments.

I feel my arguments are sucking up well to Bill Gates.

We produce the vast majority of intellectual property. Most other
countries watch our entertainment too. I know that for a fact
because I have collected Internet TV stations, so I know what
kind of television other countries watch.

How would you say the quality of the BBC's output compares to the
US alternatives? You have heard of the BBC right?

How many major motion pictures did the BBC produce last year?


You bang on about "Johnny foreigner" pirating software

Which is true.

Yup. And you bang my mother when you're hard up too.

and in virtually the same paragraph you criticise MS for selling
cheaper versions of Windows in poor regions of the world.

That's true also.

whilst my mother is moaning about people from the same regions
fondling it.

The bottom line is that Microsoft Windows and Office is a cash
cow monopoly duo.

MS is a very profitable company and it is alleged that they use
their strong position in ways which restrict competition.

Only a radical wearing blinders wouldn't have seen that, even before
the United States federal appeals court wrote:

"...we uphold the District Court's finding of monopoly power in its
entirety."

"The District Court found that the restrictions Microsoft imposed in
licensing Windows to OEMs prevented many OEMs from distributing
browsers other than IE."

"Microsoft's primary copyright argument borders upon the frivolous.
The company claims an absolute and unfettered right to use its
intellectual property as it wishes: "If intellectual property rights
have been lawfully acquired," it says, then "their subsequent
exercise cannot give rise to antitrust liability." That is no more
correct than the proposition that use of one's personal property,
such as a baseball bat, cannot give rise to tort liability."

"In sum, we hold that with the exception of the one restriction
prohibiting automatically launched alternative interfaces, all the
OEM license restrictions at issue represent uses of Microsoft's
market power to protect its monopoly, unredeemed by any legitimate
justification. The restrictions therefore violate section 2 of the
Sherman Act."


Amazing really,

I'm glad you found that enlightening.


I'm not suggesting that the richest person is the cleverest. I'm
suggesting that Bill Gates is better looking than my mother. I
stand by that statement.

It's a good argument IMO.







Regards

Martin






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From: "Schrodinger's cat" martin scotland.org
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Subject: OT Bill Gates tells senators "we need more foreign programmers to remain competitive"
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On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 06:18:24 GMT, John Doe
wrote:

That's what Microsoft defenders and other clueless people were
saying during the Microsoft trial six years ago. There is no sign
whatsoever of Microsoft losing market share.

Pretty soon the Mac OS or something will all of its features and full
compatitibility will be available for PCs. Then what?

Ultimately we will all be using some kind of Unix type OS, with
unlimited flavors but a base of open-source code. How can it be
otherwise with all these gadgets coming on line? TV set top boxes
that aren't quite computers, but could be if they were hooked up a
little differently... game platforms that are the same way... cell
phones that are morphing into music-and-video playing PDAs with
elegant little keyboards...

One company, no matter how big, can't effectively serve all those
niches.

Meanwhile, MS is plodding along with an ex-CFO at the helm, mired in
the torpor of quarterly earnings targets, hoping to cram a new desktop
OS down peoples' throats and get a fresh run out of the deal. It
can't last forever.

Charlie

Charlie Wilkes charlie_wilkes users.easynews.com wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 06:18:24 GMT, John Doe jdoe
usenet.love.invalid wrote:

That's what Microsoft defenders and other clueless people were
saying during the Microsoft trial six years ago. There is no sign
whatsoever of Microsoft losing market share.

Pretty soon the Mac OS or something will all of its features and
full compatitibility will be available for PCs.

"We'll come back for you."
"When?!"
"Soon."
"How soon?!!!"

And I predict that Charlie Wilkes will stop abusing drugs someday.


One company, no matter how big, can't effectively serve all those
niches.

You might notice that they are willing to serve Microsoft.


Meanwhile, MS is plodding along with an ex-CFO at the helm, mired
in the torpor of quarterly earnings targets, hoping to cram a new
desktop OS down peoples' throats and get a fresh run out of the
deal. It can't last forever.

It won't last forever. The problem is how it falls.





Charlie








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From: Charlie Wilkes charlie_wilkes users.easynews.com
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Subject: OT Bill Gates tells senators "we need more foreign programmers to remain competitive"
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"David Maynard" wrote in message
...
Troll trolling

Yes, you are correct David. I shouldn't have fed it.

The penny dropped when I realised he was snipping my posts down to half
sentences to move away from his early indefensible statements.

Regards

Martin

John Doe writes:

At least Mxsmanic isn't calling Office a single application.

Office is a single application in a marketing sense, and also in a
technical sense from some viewpoints.

Name the biggest non-Microsoft owned money making application.

Hmm ... not sure. In my own case, the cost of Quark XPress alone
dwarfs my entire investment in Microsoft applications. I think my
investment in Adobe software is also quite a bit larger.

We've been over this before. Microsoft's revenue dwarfs the sum of
all other personal computer software publishers.

But the revenue of all other software publishers dwarfs the revenue of
Microsoft.

That's what Microsoft defenders and other clueless people were
saying during the Microsoft trial six years ago. There is no sign
whatsoever of Microsoft losing market share.

I see signs of it. More importantly, Microsoft is far too dependent
on far too small a number of revenue sources. Without Office and
Windows, Microsoft would fold, and without either one of these two
products, Microsoft would be severely crippled. The company has far
too many eggs in far too few baskets. This has long been recognized
as a problem for the company, but investors seem willing to ignore it
as long as the company seems to be making money.

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