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#1
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Looking for an external enclosure for a salvaged 2.5 laptop drive.
To be used for backup images for both a new laptop and a work station.
Both ESATA and USB3 capability would be great. I have a laptop with a bad LCD and am going to remove the drive anyway before the rest is recycled. So I thought I may as well put the drive to use. Its a 500GB 5400 RPM about 2-1/2 years old. Any recommendations? Thanks, John |
#2
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Looking for an external enclosure for a salvaged 2.5 laptop drive.
John wrote:
To be used for backup images for both a new laptop and a work station. Both ESATA and USB3 capability would be great. I have a laptop with a bad LCD and am going to remove the drive anyway before the rest is recycled. So I thought I may as well put the drive to use. Its a 500GB 5400 RPM about 2-1/2 years old. Any recommendations? Thanks, John To find good USB3 and ESATA, I had to look for a 3.5" enclosure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817392050 ESATA comes a couple ways. The original ESATA was a data only cable. It assumed the hard drive was self powered. Thus, the enclosure end had its own power adapter. Some of the ESATA enclosures may use a USB cable as a source of +5V. But then, I don't know how the drive selects which I/O standard to use. Or whether it's one of those power-only USB cables with a barrel power connector on the end. ESATA itself, had a couple contacts added to the ends of the connector. The trouble with that concept, is on the computer end, you could either send 5V down the cable, or 12V. The 12V option was good for 3.5" drives, while 5V made sense for the 2.5" devices. This was effectively turning users into engineers, selecting components to make the setup work. And you can imagine, if a family member came along and connected the wrong stuff, there would be issues. In the description here, I can barely follow the power options. This is the so-called eSATAp non-standard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esata#eSATAp So plain ESATA on the enclosure is preferred. Plus having a power adapter for the housing. That's how I ended up selecting the 3.5" enclosure, something that at least has the right infrastructure, even if the drive doesn't conveniently bolt into place. ******* If you go for just USB as an interface standard, this is so much easier. The 5V on USB bus, can power some (but not all) 2.5" drives. Some drives draw a little too much current on +5V. What helps though, is the USB3 standard allows a bit more current flow, which helps cover more of the 2.5" hard drive market. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817392043 The 2.5" drives can draw anywhere from 500mA to 1 amp during spinup phase. USB2 is 500mA, USB3, is 900mA. USB on desktops is policed by a Polyfuse, which is set several times higher than the official current flow limit (suggesting using the one cable, should always have worked). On laptops, an 8 pin chip may be used, in place of a self-recovering Polyfuse, and the current limit on a laptop may be set different than a desktop. A laptop is more likely to have issues powering the external drive. Back when there was more trouble getting the 2.5" drives to spin up on USB power, that lead to the invention of the USB "Y" cable. The cable had two "computer" ends on it. One fork had data and power, the other leg of the fork had just power pins. The idea was to steal power from two USB ports. From a gambler's perspective, there are better odds now, with modern gear, that this won't be necessary. (Versions of this also exist, where the second USB computer end, is on its own cable with a barrel power connector as the output on the other end.) http://www.amazon.com/Bytecc-USB2-HD.../dp/B002GWMLE8 On that Nexstar enclosure, there is a barrel power input on the left hand side. This would allow usage of a USB2 to barrel power cable, in situations where the drive was drawing 1 ampere at startup. When paralleling power like that, the power source ideally should come from the same source supply (like, both traceable to the 5V on your desktop). http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-392-043-Z04?$S640$ And this is the variation on the Y cable, for connecting a USB port as a power source for the drive enclosure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA30R14K5096 If you use a USB3 port between computer and USB3 enclosure, you're not likely to need the barrel thing. Still, if you run into problems, the presence of the barrel connector means you may still be able to salvage the value of the enclosure. The algorithm would go like this. Try just a USB2 or USB3 cable, from enclosure to drive. If you can read the drive, you're done. If you cannot read the drive, then it's time to explore adding power via the barrel power input. ******* A dock is another way to do this. You could buy a dock and just leave the drive plugged into it. What happens with the 2.5" drives, is there is a plastic insert that fills the space for the naturally 3.5" dock, and that's how a 2.5" drive is adapted to fit. This isn't the ideal configuration, but the benefit of docks, is sometimes you get different I/O options than you get on the enclosure concept. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0VN-0003-000H5 ******* It all seems to give the impression sometimes, that nobody really thought out external drives all that carefully :-) Paul |
#3
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Looking for an external enclosure for a salvaged 2.5 laptop drive.
On 12/1/2013 8:38 AM, Paul wrote:
John wrote: To be used for backup images for both a new laptop and a work station. Both ESATA and USB3 capability would be great. I have a laptop with a bad LCD and am going to remove the drive anyway before the rest is recycled. So I thought I may as well put the drive to use. Its a 500GB 5400 RPM about 2-1/2 years old. Any recommendations? Thanks, John To find good USB3 and ESATA, I had to look for a 3.5" enclosure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817392050 ESATA comes a couple ways. The original ESATA was a data only cable. It assumed the hard drive was self powered. Thus, the enclosure end had its own power adapter. Some of the ESATA enclosures may use a USB cable as a source of +5V. But then, I don't know how the drive selects which I/O standard to use. Or whether it's one of those power-only USB cables with a barrel power connector on the end. ESATA itself, had a couple contacts added to the ends of the connector. The trouble with that concept, is on the computer end, you could either send 5V down the cable, or 12V. The 12V option was good for 3.5" drives, while 5V made sense for the 2.5" devices. This was effectively turning users into engineers, selecting components to make the setup work. And you can imagine, if a family member came along and connected the wrong stuff, there would be issues. In the description here, I can barely follow the power options. This is the so-called eSATAp non-standard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esata#eSATAp So plain ESATA on the enclosure is preferred. Plus having a power adapter for the housing. That's how I ended up selecting the 3.5" enclosure, something that at least has the right infrastructure, even if the drive doesn't conveniently bolt into place. ******* If you go for just USB as an interface standard, this is so much easier. The 5V on USB bus, can power some (but not all) 2.5" drives. Some drives draw a little too much current on +5V. What helps though, is the USB3 standard allows a bit more current flow, which helps cover more of the 2.5" hard drive market. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817392043 The 2.5" drives can draw anywhere from 500mA to 1 amp during spinup phase. USB2 is 500mA, USB3, is 900mA. USB on desktops is policed by a Polyfuse, which is set several times higher than the official current flow limit (suggesting using the one cable, should always have worked). On laptops, an 8 pin chip may be used, in place of a self-recovering Polyfuse, and the current limit on a laptop may be set different than a desktop. A laptop is more likely to have issues powering the external drive. Back when there was more trouble getting the 2.5" drives to spin up on USB power, that lead to the invention of the USB "Y" cable. The cable had two "computer" ends on it. One fork had data and power, the other leg of the fork had just power pins. The idea was to steal power from two USB ports. From a gambler's perspective, there are better odds now, with modern gear, that this won't be necessary. (Versions of this also exist, where the second USB computer end, is on its own cable with a barrel power connector as the output on the other end.) http://www.amazon.com/Bytecc-USB2-HD.../dp/B002GWMLE8 On that Nexstar enclosure, there is a barrel power input on the left hand side. This would allow usage of a USB2 to barrel power cable, in situations where the drive was drawing 1 ampere at startup. When paralleling power like that, the power source ideally should come from the same source supply (like, both traceable to the 5V on your desktop). http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-392-043-Z04?$S640$ And this is the variation on the Y cable, for connecting a USB port as a power source for the drive enclosure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA30R14K5096 If you use a USB3 port between computer and USB3 enclosure, you're not likely to need the barrel thing. Still, if you run into problems, the presence of the barrel connector means you may still be able to salvage the value of the enclosure. The algorithm would go like this. Try just a USB2 or USB3 cable, from enclosure to drive. If you can read the drive, you're done. If you cannot read the drive, then it's time to explore adding power via the barrel power input. ******* A dock is another way to do this. You could buy a dock and just leave the drive plugged into it. What happens with the 2.5" drives, is there is a plastic insert that fills the space for the naturally 3.5" dock, and that's how a 2.5" drive is adapted to fit. This isn't the ideal configuration, but the benefit of docks, is sometimes you get different I/O options than you get on the enclosure concept. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0VN-0003-000H5 ******* It all seems to give the impression sometimes, that nobody really thought out external drives all that carefully :-) Paul Thank you for the thorough explanation. Basically you recommend a separate power supply as used in a docking scheme? If so that makes more sense than drawing power from a USB port, it has enough to do already. * The first one above is $50, comes with both an ESATA and USB3 cable but appears to be 3.5" drive only. The 2nd is inexpensive ($16) but USB only & no separate power supply. Skipped the 'Y' cable thing as both USB ports are side by side on the work station and are connected to the same block. Who knows on the laptop, won't be delivered until next week, but I would suspect a similar hookup internally, after all it only makes sense. The last is a possibility if all else fails and certainly reasonably priced. * Do they sell adapters to go from 3.5 to 2.5? I like the first one you pointed out but don't have a spare 3.5" drive. Also is there an easy way to tell which ports are USB2 and which are USB3? John |
#4
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Looking for an external enclosure for a salvaged 2.5 laptop drive.
John wrote:
To be used for backup images for both a new laptop and a work station. Both ESATA and USB3 capability would be great. I have a laptop with a bad LCD and am going to remove the drive anyway before the rest is recycled. So I thought I may as well put the drive to use. Its a 500GB 5400 RPM about 2-1/2 years old. Any recommendations? Thanks, John Don't know what 2.5" hard disk you have. You didn't say. Giving some examples and using Western Digital for a brand, if it were a green or blue drive then an external disk case with no fan would be sufficient. For a WDC black Caviar drive (no power saving, runs hotter than their other drives), I'd want an external case with a fan. It also depends on how long you plan on leaving the external drive powered up. If it's on for only a hour at a time (and left to completely cool down between uses), I might not need a fan for the WDC black Caviar drive. If it stays powered on all the time (so it's there during backups scheduled when you're not around) then I'd want a fan on the black Caviar drive. If it spins at 10K RPM, or higher, then I'd want a fan. Relying on conduction from drive to case and then convection from case to air means the drive inside will get warm and sometimes too warm. With a 2.5" drive, you really need to check how much startup (surge) current it requires. Some are okay sucking up power from just 1 USB 2 port but some will require a Y-cable to connect to two USB 2 ports. USB 3 should supply enough power. But, again, check the specs on the drive to make sure the port(s) are sufficient for power load by the drive. If not or you don't want to use more than one USB port (remember that you might be toting this to other computers that don't have USB 3) then get an external case that includes a power supply and adapter. For my WDC blue Caviar drive, I found the following fanless external case to be well suited even when leaving the drive always on and for backups that took a couple hours to complete: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817392032 Alas, it only does USB 2.0 because I didn't need to pay the price premium for USB 3 since I had (and still have) no computers with USB 3. Same regarding e-sata. The drive will startup using just one USB 2 port but specs show it close to the .5A for a USB port so I use the Y-cable to ensure reliable startup. There are lots of external drive cases that'll match your criteria: USB3 and e-sata connectivity. Find out how long is the included USB cable. Some are so damn short that the ports take stress with the enclosure having to hang instead of sit flat on a desk or atop the PC case and the port eventually breaks (in the PC or the external drive case). The USB cable has to be long enough for use in your situation for placement, and add several inches if the cable has to route in a bend. Only you know what disk drive you have to know (lookup) its specs to see how much current it sucks up on startup to know if you need a Y-cable (2 USB ports) for reliable startup and operation on USB 2 (since you may have to connect to USB 2 instead of USB 3). Be sure to read the user reviews (and bias the negative ones with no details or the DOAs [where the user doesn't mention what happened with the replacement] since **** always happens). |
#5
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Looking for an external enclosure for a salvaged 2.5 laptop drive.
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 06:56:36 -0500, John wrote:
To be used for backup images for both a new laptop and a work station. Both ESATA and USB3 capability would be great. I have a laptop with a bad LCD and am going to remove the drive anyway before the rest is recycled. So I thought I may as well put the drive to use. Its a 500GB 5400 RPM about 2-1/2 years old. Any recommendations? Thanks, John Many available, here's one at newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0VN-0003-00014 |
#6
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Looking for an external enclosure for a salvaged 2.5 laptop drive.
John wrote:
On 12/1/2013 8:38 AM, Paul wrote: John wrote: To be used for backup images for both a new laptop and a work station. Both ESATA and USB3 capability would be great. I have a laptop with a bad LCD and am going to remove the drive anyway before the rest is recycled. So I thought I may as well put the drive to use. Its a 500GB 5400 RPM about 2-1/2 years old. Any recommendations? Thanks, John To find good USB3 and ESATA, I had to look for a 3.5" enclosure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817392050 ESATA comes a couple ways. The original ESATA was a data only cable. It assumed the hard drive was self powered. Thus, the enclosure end had its own power adapter. Some of the ESATA enclosures may use a USB cable as a source of +5V. But then, I don't know how the drive selects which I/O standard to use. Or whether it's one of those power-only USB cables with a barrel power connector on the end. ESATA itself, had a couple contacts added to the ends of the connector. The trouble with that concept, is on the computer end, you could either send 5V down the cable, or 12V. The 12V option was good for 3.5" drives, while 5V made sense for the 2.5" devices. This was effectively turning users into engineers, selecting components to make the setup work. And you can imagine, if a family member came along and connected the wrong stuff, there would be issues. In the description here, I can barely follow the power options. This is the so-called eSATAp non-standard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esata#eSATAp So plain ESATA on the enclosure is preferred. Plus having a power adapter for the housing. That's how I ended up selecting the 3.5" enclosure, something that at least has the right infrastructure, even if the drive doesn't conveniently bolt into place. ******* If you go for just USB as an interface standard, this is so much easier. The 5V on USB bus, can power some (but not all) 2.5" drives. Some drives draw a little too much current on +5V. What helps though, is the USB3 standard allows a bit more current flow, which helps cover more of the 2.5" hard drive market. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817392043 The 2.5" drives can draw anywhere from 500mA to 1 amp during spinup phase. USB2 is 500mA, USB3, is 900mA. USB on desktops is policed by a Polyfuse, which is set several times higher than the official current flow limit (suggesting using the one cable, should always have worked). On laptops, an 8 pin chip may be used, in place of a self-recovering Polyfuse, and the current limit on a laptop may be set different than a desktop. A laptop is more likely to have issues powering the external drive. Back when there was more trouble getting the 2.5" drives to spin up on USB power, that lead to the invention of the USB "Y" cable. The cable had two "computer" ends on it. One fork had data and power, the other leg of the fork had just power pins. The idea was to steal power from two USB ports. From a gambler's perspective, there are better odds now, with modern gear, that this won't be necessary. (Versions of this also exist, where the second USB computer end, is on its own cable with a barrel power connector as the output on the other end.) http://www.amazon.com/Bytecc-USB2-HD.../dp/B002GWMLE8 On that Nexstar enclosure, there is a barrel power input on the left hand side. This would allow usage of a USB2 to barrel power cable, in situations where the drive was drawing 1 ampere at startup. When paralleling power like that, the power source ideally should come from the same source supply (like, both traceable to the 5V on your desktop). http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-392-043-Z04?$S640$ And this is the variation on the Y cable, for connecting a USB port as a power source for the drive enclosure. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA30R14K5096 If you use a USB3 port between computer and USB3 enclosure, you're not likely to need the barrel thing. Still, if you run into problems, the presence of the barrel connector means you may still be able to salvage the value of the enclosure. The algorithm would go like this. Try just a USB2 or USB3 cable, from enclosure to drive. If you can read the drive, you're done. If you cannot read the drive, then it's time to explore adding power via the barrel power input. ******* A dock is another way to do this. You could buy a dock and just leave the drive plugged into it. What happens with the 2.5" drives, is there is a plastic insert that fills the space for the naturally 3.5" dock, and that's how a 2.5" drive is adapted to fit. This isn't the ideal configuration, but the benefit of docks, is sometimes you get different I/O options than you get on the enclosure concept. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0VN-0003-000H5 ******* It all seems to give the impression sometimes, that nobody really thought out external drives all that carefully :-) Paul Thank you for the thorough explanation. Basically you recommend a separate power supply as used in a docking scheme? If so that makes more sense than drawing power from a USB port, it has enough to do already. * The first one above is $50, comes with both an ESATA and USB3 cable but appears to be 3.5" drive only. The 2nd is inexpensive ($16) but USB only & no separate power supply. Skipped the 'Y' cable thing as both USB ports are side by side on the work station and are connected to the same block. Who knows on the laptop, won't be delivered until next week, but I would suspect a similar hookup internally, after all it only makes sense. The last is a possibility if all else fails and certainly reasonably priced. * Do they sell adapters to go from 3.5 to 2.5? I like the first one you pointed out but don't have a spare 3.5" drive. Also is there an easy way to tell which ports are USB2 and which are USB3? John If the drive is 500GB, chances are it is SATA. 2.5" SATA and 3.5" SATA use the same physical interface dimensions. A 2.5" drive would fit a 3.5" SATA enclosure connector. When drives get to 1.8", they switch to microSATA and an adapter is required. If the drive is IDE, the 2.5" laptop drives use a 44 pin connector, with 2mm spacing. The 3.5" desktop drives, use a 40 pin connector, with 0.1 inch spacing. An adapter is needed to go between those two standards. It's a good question, whether a 3.5" IDE enclosure would have space for a 2.5" IDE 44 pin, plus an adapter. (IDE adapter, 2.5" IDE drive to 3.5" IDE desktop cabling) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812196219 My assumption is, your hard drive is SATA. And really the only issue at that point, is fastening the 2.5" drive in position, in the 3.5" sled. You can buy 2.5" to 3.5" mechanical adapters, which would be one solution for SATA. If the drive was IDE, I would just buy a matching enclosure (2.5" enclosure for 44 pin IDE, 3.5" or 5.25" enclosure for 40 pin IDE drive). ******* USB3 ports are powder blue in color. A USB3 port has a total of nine contacts. Five contacts for USB3 (TX+/- diff pair, RX+/- diff pair, ground). Four contacts for USB2 (VCC, D+, D-, GND). If you plug a USB3 device into a USB2 hole, only the four contact portion makes contact. The five contact section is recessed in the connector. When shopping for my first and only USB3 flash drive, the plastic packaging prevented me from visually inspecting the connector. So I couldn't verify it really was a USB3 device, until I got it home and under a strong light source. ******* With regard to power sources, it's really hard to offer advice that is rock solid in every case. I know with the enclosure I have here, definitely and for certain, the power section is independent of the interface, and so I know any combination of wiring is OK. I can connect just the USB portion and leave the power supply disconnected. I can connect the power supply to the enclosure, and leave the USB disconnected. Again, no problem. A problem that arises occasionally with USB devices, is the manufacturer connects an external power source, in common with the VCC pin on the USB bus cable. This can cause a lot of current to flow backwards in the cable. In the case of a 3.5" external enclosure, we can be fairly certain the designers do not connect +5V or +12V of the enclosure power, to the VCC pin on the USB side. But, when it comes to 2.5" enclosures, there is a good chance they'll do something stupid, like connect the barrel connector to the VCC pin. What we interpret this to mean, is the barrel connector in that case, is only meant for a USB to barrel power source. (Since in that case, the USB power comes from the ATX supply, and it's the same source as the primary USB interface.) You should not connect an external power adapter +5V to the barrel connector on the enclosure in that case. You'd need an ohmmeter to verify the connection is present. The first time I saw a proper implementation, it was a datasheet for a hub chip. The manufacturer showed how to build a powered hub. The hub was intended to support both externally powered, and USB bus powered operation. They solved the problem with power, by using a small relay. When the external power adapter is plugged in, the presence of power energizes the small relay. The relay contacts break the connection between USB bus power and enclosure power. In that way, there is no danger the external adapter will drive current backwards into the ATX supply. (That's really only an issue if it causes the Polyfuse to trip, and the USB port state changes to disabled due to the port power failure being detected.) Your average $15 USB2 enclosure, if it has a barrel connector, chances are it's connected to bus power. They could not afford to stick a relay in there, for a $15 product. But if you bought one of those powered hubs I described, then those are intended for powering with an external adapter. So this is a safe configuration. Both power sources come from the same original source. No loop current flows. USB_cable ---------- barrel_power USB enclosure with USB_cable ---------- power+data barrel power provision If we do it this way Ext. +5V ---------- barrel_power USB enclosure with USB_cable ---------- power+data barrel power provision then power can flow from left to right on the top cable, and from right to left on the bottom cable. A USB hub, with the relay present, looks like this. Here, Ext. adapter power can't flow up the USB cable, because the power path has the relay contacts there to stop it from flowing. The relay opens, any time power appears on the barrel_power input. Ext. +5V ---------- barrel_power USB powered hub ---------- data USB_cable ---/ ----- power (Power can be interrupted by relay) So the Y cable concept, or the USB to barrel concept is pretty safe. If you use an wall powered +5V source to plug into the barrel connector, then you'd need to ask more questions. Maybe, even check to see if a small plastic relay is present as a form of protection. HTH, Paul |
#7
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Looking for an external enclosure for a salvaged 2.5 laptop drive.
On 01/12/2013 12:58 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
Don't know what 2.5" hard disk you have. You didn't say. Giving some examples and using Western Digital for a brand, if it were a green or blue drive then an external disk case with no fan would be sufficient. For a WDC black Caviar drive (no power saving, runs hotter than their other drives), I'd want an external case with a fan. It also depends on how long you plan on leaving the external drive powered up. If it's on for only a hour at a time (and left to completely cool down between uses), I might not need a fan for the WDC black Caviar drive. If it stays powered on all the time (so it's there during backups scheduled when you're not around) then I'd want a fan on the black Caviar drive. If it spins at 10K RPM, or higher, then I'd want a fan. Relying on conduction from drive to case and then convection from case to air means the drive inside will get warm and sometimes too warm. I don't think laptop drives come in Green or Black editions, those are just the 3.5" desktop drives. Laptop drives are all Green editions compared to desktop drives. Yousuf Khan |
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