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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
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#13
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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
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#16
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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
On Sep 19, 9:47*pm, Cydrome Leader wrote: wrote: Cydrome Leader kenjka: Talking to me, I've seen management for UPS machine... We were looking at it trying to figure out which drives are installed inside... ))) Took us about and hour... That sounds about right. All the error message have misleading IBM like error codes like "KAIC10175-E" except there's no book to look up the error or what it means. I suspect they're random and nobody knows what they are, even in Japan. DDDDDDDDDDDDD Here in Croatia, everything is sold through partners... My company is a partner for almost everything that counts (EMC, Hitachi, IBM, HP, Sun, VMware, Oracle, SAP, Microsoft, etc)... When we sell any stuff, we have to stock spare parts and take warranty on us... Interesting. So when an IBM customer has problems, you switch out your Sun shirt and show up as IBM? Nope... We have people designated for every vendor... Few guys are technicians for their vendor, like 3 guys for EMC, 2 guys for HP, 2 for IBM, 3 for Sun, etc... Ok. Don't know how business is done i USA, but here in smaller countries accross Europe, almost everything is done via partners... So, let's say, EMC has got Here most vendors have people who could do work, but they want to force you to use a VAR as well. All most VARs do is try to sell you extra stupid services you don't need and then botch the order up somehow. It seems like a stupid way to do things to me, and it's especially annoying when they go out of business. Try calling Cisco for license enable keys at 4pm on Friday after your VAR went out of business or changed names. Even if Cisco sends you new hardware, you have to deal with the stupid VAR to get license keys again. It's completely stupid and whoever though of that model needs to set on fire. Most maintenance from any company is handled by third parties that just pretend to be from whatever vendor their work order says. It makes some sense as less people can handle more work that way, and I'm sure it's cheaper for everybody that way. Even software companies make you do stupid stuff like find a VAR. Last time I ordered Vmware, I had to call Vmware to find a VAR that never returned my calls or emails. Then I had to call back to get the name of another VAR, then I got a quote for the published price, then I had to make a PO for the software and support. I didn't even get a piece of paper or anything. It's completely retarded that I could not just type in a CC number on vmware.com and download a license key. I had to fill out all sort of paperwork to download a file from a website. and office in Croatia that serves 3 major partners, 1 distributor, 1 training centre... Croatia is a small country with 4 mil people, but we have offices of almost every big vendor here... You'd be surprised, but this market is very funny, a lot of enterprise boxes are sold here (EMC Symmetrix, IBM DS8000, HP XP, Hitachi USP, IBM System-z, HP SuperDome, etc)... Almost everything is done on FC SAN, and nobody even thinks about iSCSI or NAS systems... )) Like I said, totally funny, nobody asks how much it costs, all that is needed is that it's working and that it's expensive... What do all these machines do- who uses them? For HDS here, it seems they have real employees that come out, but simple stuff like disk swaps is handled by a third party, like maintanence for SUN and HP unless you have some sort of 4 hour support and a really big deal problem. I have no problem with this as those techs know their stuff, I really don't care what company name is on their paychecks. Well, we have a stock of spare parts for customers that have SLA's signed with us... Here is the US major vendors have parts depots, either at logistics/shipping company warehouses or at warehouses at major airports. For instance, if I want a new fuser assembly for a HP laserjet, it's probably sitting in a box, right now at UPS logistics (something like that) in Kentucky . They get the order from HP, print a label and it get shipped to me, probably within hours. If I need Netapp parts, I think they're sitting in a warehouse by O'Hare international airport and a courier or tech can get them to me in just a couple hours, maybe even less. It works pretty nicely. I'm sure it's a bit slower if you're in some far away rural area though. Years ago the concept of a VAR was explained to me as a company that could sell us OEM parts at a discount, assist with the specs, configuration, administration, etc. I asked, um, are you replacing us Admins with these people? I got no answer from management. Fortunately it has yet to happen, much. Today, years later, it seems the only way you can buy equipment, parts, licenses, or service contracts from an OEM is through a VAR. But you can be creative. We purchased an EMC DMX through Dell with a service contract direct with EMC. Purchasing through Dell got us credits for our parent company that improves the discount that corporate gets when buying other Dell products. I don't have to call Del(hi) to get some level I bonehead to send it up through the Dell idiots only to be told that they will have to call EMC anyways. I just call EMC. It's all about what you put in your contract. Don't be spoon fed by the "VAR". |
#17
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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
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#18
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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
mrvelous1 wrote:
On Sep 19, 9:47?pm, Cydrome Leader wrote: wrote: Cydrome Leader kenjka: Talking to me, I've seen management for UPS machine... We were looking at it trying to figure out which drives are installed inside... ))) Took us about and hour... That sounds about right. All the error message have misleading IBM like error codes like "KAIC10175-E" except there's no book to look up the error or what it means. I suspect they're random and nobody knows what they are, even in Japan. DDDDDDDDDDDDD Here in Croatia, everything is sold through partners... My company is a partner for almost everything that counts (EMC, Hitachi, IBM, HP, Sun, VMware, Oracle, SAP, Microsoft, etc)... When we sell any stuff, we have to stock spare parts and take warranty on us... Interesting. So when an IBM customer has problems, you switch out your Sun shirt and show up as IBM? Nope... We have people designated for every vendor... Few guys are technicians for their vendor, like 3 guys for EMC, 2 guys for HP, 2 for IBM, 3 for Sun, etc... Ok. Don't know how business is done i USA, but here in smaller countries accross Europe, almost everything is done via partners... So, let's say, EMC has got Here most vendors have people who could do work, but they want to force you to use a VAR as well. All most VARs do is try to sell you extra stupid services you don't need and then botch the order up somehow. It seems like a stupid way to do things to me, and it's especially annoying when they go out of business. Try calling Cisco for license enable keys at 4pm on Friday after your VAR went out of business or changed names. Even if Cisco sends you new hardware, you have to deal with the stupid VAR to get license keys again. It's completely stupid and whoever though of that model needs to set on fire. Most maintenance from any company is handled by third parties that just pretend to be from whatever vendor their work order says. It makes some sense as less people can handle more work that way, and I'm sure it's cheaper for everybody that way. Even software companies make you do stupid stuff like find a VAR. Last time I ordered Vmware, I had to call Vmware to find a VAR that never returned my calls or emails. Then I had to call back to get the name of another VAR, then I got a quote for the published price, then I had to make a PO for the software and support. I didn't even get a piece of paper or anything. It's completely retarded that I could not just type in a CC number on vmware.com and download a license key. I had to fill out all sort of paperwork to download a file from a website. and office in Croatia that serves 3 major partners, 1 distributor, 1 training centre... Croatia is a small country with 4 mil people, but we have offices of almost every big vendor here... You'd be surprised, but this market is very funny, a lot of enterprise boxes are sold here (EMC Symmetrix, IBM DS8000, HP XP, Hitachi USP, IBM System-z, HP SuperDome, etc)... Almost everything is done on FC SAN, and nobody even thinks about iSCSI or NAS systems... )) Like I said, totally funny, nobody asks how much it costs, all that is needed is that it's working and that it's expensive... What do all these machines do- who uses them? For HDS here, it seems they have real employees that come out, but simple stuff like disk swaps is handled by a third party, like maintanence for SUN and HP unless you have some sort of 4 hour support and a really big deal problem. I have no problem with this as those techs know their stuff, I really don't care what company name is on their paychecks. Well, we have a stock of spare parts for customers that have SLA's signed with us... Here is the US major vendors have parts depots, either at logistics/shipping company warehouses or at warehouses at major airports. For instance, if I want a new fuser assembly for a HP laserjet, it's probably sitting in a box, right now at UPS logistics (something like that) in Kentucky . They get the order from HP, print a label and it get shipped to me, probably within hours. If I need Netapp parts, I think they're sitting in a warehouse by O'Hare international airport and a courier or tech can get them to me in just a couple hours, maybe even less. It works pretty nicely. I'm sure it's a bit slower if you're in some far away rural area though. Years ago the concept of a VAR was explained to me as a company that could sell us OEM parts at a discount, assist with the specs, configuration, administration, etc. I asked, um, are you replacing us Admins with these people? I got no answer from management. Fortunately it has yet to happen, much. Today, years later, it seems the only way you can buy equipment, parts, licenses, or service contracts from an OEM is through a VAR. It's really annoying, since most places won't even return a call unless you want prices on some million dollar project, and even then, you have to beat them to even get a price without all the "extras" they try to hustle on you in removed. Granted, even major makers are annoying as well. Just try to call up EMC and get a quote on an exact list of hardware. They won't do it. But you can be creative. We purchased an EMC DMX through Dell with a service contract direct with EMC. Purchasing through Dell got us credits for our parent company that improves the discount that corporate gets when buying other Dell products. I don't have to call Del(hi) to get some level I bonehead to send it up through the Dell idiots only to be told that they will have to call EMC anyways. I just call EMC. It's all about what you put in your contract. Don't be spoon fed by the "VAR". Haha. nice. How is dell's support on server type stuff these days? I've not had to deal with them in quite some time. I mostly just deal with HP and Sun these days. HP is pretty good even if you have have the plain 3 year warranty on hardware. They do seem to push shipping parts even if you are entitled to on-site, but this is fine for most stuff. I don't wan't to have to wait around to escort somebody into the datacenter to swap a power supply when I can do it myself, when I feel like going there. Sun's support if you have a service contract is OK for the most part. Your stuff will get fixed, although I can't stand sitting on the phone for 30 minutes verifying all my contact info multiple times a day. Hardware support cases seem to get processed fastest if you open them online. I've had bronze hardware fixed onsite by a tech in hours of submitting a case, which is way above and beyond. They seem smart enough to know that shipping parts wastes more time than sending a field engineer that's already on service calls in the area. |
#19
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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
... Mmy opinion is the software for the hitachi stuff all sucks. There doesn't seem to be any support website, I have no idea where you get docs, if they exist or are even translated into English and the programs themselves are just strange and somewhat crippled. Have you tried this site for docs: https://extranet.hds.com |
#20
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Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:48:13 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote: Mmy opinion is the software for the hitachi stuff all sucks. There doesn't seem to be any support website, I have no idea where you get docs, if they exist or are even translated into English and the programs themselves are just strange and somewhat crippled. I might use three different Hitachi programs at once just to add a LUN to a host. It makes no sense, other than Hitachi had non-technical people that can't spell SAN write the management softare. The hardware itself seems good. Every once in a while a drive fails and somebody shows up to replace it. Uh.. oh. This is turning into a religious war. Not to brag but let me tell you my personal knowledge/experience about storage before I get on my soap box. I have been working with HDS and EMC stuff since 1999. I am now a one man storage consultant. I also know the celerra and the clariion very well, oh... NetApp( I love Netapp!). Furthermore, I know the replication technologies of all of them.. SRDF/A, timefinder, Truecopy, Shadowcopy, and the NAS replications. I have hands on knowledge of all of them and am actively engaged in these technologies, now. Now, if I were to put a storage infrastructure into my own data center..... what would I buy?? My answer is HDS & NetApp, hands down. From my experience, you turn both of those on and you can walk away from them and go to your cubicle to spend all your time surfing on the web to find the best place to buy a GI Joe for your son's bithday. And, yes HDS is not perfect. Up until the recent versions of Tuning manager, their software sucked. Also, their support staff and sales people are limited. They don't buy me as many steak dinners as EMC sales people. As far as replication technologies. EMC and HDS are night and day. The complexities of SRDF is insane compared with Truecopy. In Truecopy you edit the HORCM files and kick the new disks in the pant and away they go. SRDF, you have to issue very complicated RDF commands and then you have to stop the entire replication group so you can add the new disks. Don't even try to compare Celerra replication with NetApp. In my mind, the Celerra doesn't even deserve to be considered considered next to the NetApp. My personal theory is that EMC thrives on complexity and make more money with support services. Admittedly, I have personally gained from their products since I work in an EMC customer site. One EMC item I personally do like is ECC. Of all the storage management software, ECC is the most muture and most capable. If you wanna throw stones at me, I don't mind. One major flaws with other storage management software is that they scale poorly. Weather it is 50 or 150 hosts, once they get to their numbers they turn into bloated and unuseable virus. dogkicker |
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