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#11
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Homebuilt computer has slowed noticably.... why?
On Mon, 03 Sep 2018 16:13:21 +0100, Peter Johnson
wrote: On Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:51:53 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote: My home built is getting a bit old, but within the last weeks has noticable slowed in many operations. For example, in Photoshop, using the erasure tool; before, erasures were instanteous. Erased materal instantly disappeared from the scene. Now, it sometimes disappears, and sometimes the dissappearance lags the erasure in what seems an erernity, but is probably a second or so. The same lag appears in simple operations in other programs as well, Thumbs up, my program for cataloging images, and Rootsmagic, my genealogy program. Here's my system. I'm guessing it has to do with the Intel microcode "fixes". If so, is there any way to improve performance? Perhaps a more modern processor? If it's the microcode, can the fix be removed? Windows 10 Pro ver 1803 Latest update KB4100347 included the Intel microcode fixes (8/26/2018) EVGA GeForce GTX 960 04G-P4-3962-KR 4GB SC GAMING (8/7/2015) Intel Core i5-4690K Devil's Canyon Quad-Core 3.5 GHz LGA 1150 88W BX80646I54690K Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4600 (7/10/2015) GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK (rev. 1.0) LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (7/10/2015) G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9D-16GXM (7/10/2015) Intel 730 Series 2.5" 480GB SATA 6Gb/s MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDSC2BP480G4R5 (12/3/2014)(The Intel SSD is a carryover from the drive in my previous system... do SSD's slow down? Computer Management says it's 446.668 GB with 288.85 GB free) I also have 2 3 TB spinning drives for data and backups. I don't think either one is a factor in this, as they've been in the system long before this started. You have made sure that the drives aren't full? I guess this can't happen in Win10 (I'm in XP) but here's Paul's take on mine: "You're in PIO mode. This shouldn't happen. When there is a measurable error rate, the driver scheme changes transfer rates, in an attempt to reduce the error rate. But it doesn't take that many "gear down" attempts by the driver, until it's in polled transfer mode, a word is transferred at a time by the CPU. That destroys transfer rate performance. When you look in the appropriate dialog, you'll see that DMA is no longer listed, and it's changed to PIO. But I can tell just by your transfer rate, what just happened. "4" is a popular number - that's what I'm using as evidence." You look for it in Device Manager IDE controllers. My HD Tune transfer rate was down to 4. |
#12
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Homebuilt computer has slowed noticably.... why?
John B. Smith wrote:
On Mon, 03 Sep 2018 16:13:21 +0100, Peter Johnson wrote: On Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:51:53 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote: My home built is getting a bit old, but within the last weeks has noticable slowed in many operations. For example, in Photoshop, using the erasure tool; before, erasures were instanteous. Erased materal instantly disappeared from the scene. Now, it sometimes disappears, and sometimes the dissappearance lags the erasure in what seems an erernity, but is probably a second or so. The same lag appears in simple operations in other programs as well, Thumbs up, my program for cataloging images, and Rootsmagic, my genealogy program. Here's my system. I'm guessing it has to do with the Intel microcode "fixes". If so, is there any way to improve performance? Perhaps a more modern processor? If it's the microcode, can the fix be removed? Windows 10 Pro ver 1803 Latest update KB4100347 included the Intel microcode fixes (8/26/2018) EVGA GeForce GTX 960 04G-P4-3962-KR 4GB SC GAMING (8/7/2015) Intel Core i5-4690K Devil's Canyon Quad-Core 3.5 GHz LGA 1150 88W BX80646I54690K Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4600 (7/10/2015) GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK (rev. 1.0) LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (7/10/2015) G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9D-16GXM (7/10/2015) Intel 730 Series 2.5" 480GB SATA 6Gb/s MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDSC2BP480G4R5 (12/3/2014)(The Intel SSD is a carryover from the drive in my previous system... do SSD's slow down? Computer Management says it's 446.668 GB with 288.85 GB free) I also have 2 3 TB spinning drives for data and backups. I don't think either one is a factor in this, as they've been in the system long before this started. You have made sure that the drives aren't full? I guess this can't happen in Win10 (I'm in XP) but here's Paul's take on mine: "You're in PIO mode. This shouldn't happen. When there is a measurable error rate, the driver scheme changes transfer rates, in an attempt to reduce the error rate. But it doesn't take that many "gear down" attempts by the driver, until it's in polled transfer mode, a word is transferred at a time by the CPU. That destroys transfer rate performance. When you look in the appropriate dialog, you'll see that DMA is no longer listed, and it's changed to PIO. But I can tell just by your transfer rate, what just happened. "4" is a popular number - that's what I'm using as evidence." You look for it in Device Manager IDE controllers. My HD Tune transfer rate was down to 4. The original behavior came from another OS. There is some sort of "SCSI domain validation" process, where the bus speed (SCSI cable) rate is reduced, until the CRC errors stop. Microsoft apparently thought this was wonderful, and added the behavior to the IDE ribbon cable interface. The rate would "gear down", until it dropped all the way to PIO (polled input/output) rates of 4MB/sec to 5MB/sec or so. In WinXP, there was a procedure for restoring the speed. "Rediscovering" the hardware, can bring the speed up to normal. That sort of thing is likely still supported on SATA (which is Serial ATA), but the thing is, the error condition that causes gear down won't be happening, and also, the "ATA transfer rate thing" has no meaning in SATA. SATA simply transfers at the cable rate. If the drive and mobo negotiate SATA II rates, then data is transferred at that rate. If a utility reports the ATA information for a SATA interface, in might say "Ultra100" or "Ultra133" but these are meaningless to the physical process of transferring SATA data. And thus, if it dropped to PIO, you might never notice. It may not be possible to actually pump a word at a time, across a SATA cable. I don't know if the packet format supports single word transfers like that or not. I don't think I've ever seen SATA do such a thing (drop to 4MB/sec as a domain validation response). Even if SATA dropped to 4MB/sec, the packets themselves still transfer at 3Gbit/sec or 6Gbit/sec, so "gearing down" would be useless. Whereas on a ribbon cable, the actual clock rate on the cable is dropping when these things happen, which improves the odds of error free cable transfers. Running at 4MB/sec, the clock for the ribbon cable would be molasses-slow, leaving plenty of settling time before each data transfer. ******* If there are enough sector reallocations on a hard drive, on a section of disk in current usage, you might notice the read rate drop to speeds like that. SMART will warn you about this condition. However, SMART works best if the reallocations are spread evenly across the disk - if that happens, the SMART warning appears around the same time you notice the read performance is bad. If, on the other hand, a massive number of sectors are reallocated in a small strip of the disk drive, then you suffer a performance problem, and SMART reads "0" for reallocations. I had that happen here on a Seagate 500GB drive. I ended up retiring the drive, even though the SMART was "clean". An HDTune benchmark run can show you the drive has problems of that nature. Paul |
#13
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Homebuilt computer has slowed noticably.... why?
On Tue, 04 Sep 2018 06:45:11 -0400, John B. Smith
wrote: On Mon, 03 Sep 2018 16:13:21 +0100, Peter Johnson wrote: On Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:51:53 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote: My home built is getting a bit old, but within the last weeks has noticable slowed in many operations. For example, in Photoshop, using the erasure tool; before, erasures were instanteous. Erased materal instantly disappeared from the scene. Now, it sometimes disappears, and sometimes the dissappearance lags the erasure in what seems an erernity, but is probably a second or so. The same lag appears in simple operations in other programs as well, Thumbs up, my program for cataloging images, and Rootsmagic, my genealogy program. Here's my system. I'm guessing it has to do with the Intel microcode "fixes". If so, is there any way to improve performance? Perhaps a more modern processor? If it's the microcode, can the fix be removed? Windows 10 Pro ver 1803 Latest update KB4100347 included the Intel microcode fixes (8/26/2018) EVGA GeForce GTX 960 04G-P4-3962-KR 4GB SC GAMING (8/7/2015) Intel Core i5-4690K Devil's Canyon Quad-Core 3.5 GHz LGA 1150 88W BX80646I54690K Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4600 (7/10/2015) GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK (rev. 1.0) LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (7/10/2015) G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9D-16GXM (7/10/2015) Intel 730 Series 2.5" 480GB SATA 6Gb/s MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDSC2BP480G4R5 (12/3/2014)(The Intel SSD is a carryover from the drive in my previous system... do SSD's slow down? Computer Management says it's 446.668 GB with 288.85 GB free) I also have 2 3 TB spinning drives for data and backups. I don't think either one is a factor in this, as they've been in the system long before this started. You have made sure that the drives aren't full? I guess this can't happen in Win10 (I'm in XP) but here's Paul's take on mine: "You're in PIO mode. This shouldn't happen. When there is a measurable error rate, the driver scheme changes transfer rates, in an attempt to reduce the error rate. But it doesn't take that many "gear down" attempts by the driver, until it's in polled transfer mode, a word is transferred at a time by the CPU. That destroys transfer rate performance. When you look in the appropriate dialog, you'll see that DMA is no longer listed, and it's changed to PIO. But I can tell just by your transfer rate, what just happened. "4" is a popular number - that's what I'm using as evidence." You look for it in Device Manager IDE controllers. My HD Tune transfer rate was down to 4. I don't think the problem is with the drive. My operating system is on the Intel SSD. When the SSD was new, HDTune data was Min 161.6 MB/sec, Max 231.3 MB/sec ave 222.2 MB/sec. Now the data is Min 268.9, Max 402.2, avg 323.9. The HDClone infor original was when the SSD was installed in my former computer, probably running Vista. Even though the old computer was much slower overall, the lack of response I'm seeing now wasn't there. My next step is to revert back to an old clone of the SSD (on and old Seagate 500 GB drive) and see if the performance issues are there. |
#14
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Homebuilt computer has slowed noticably.... why? Update
Today, I removed my SSD C drive and installed a clone from the CD made
about a year ago, as a backup. This happened to be on a 1 TB WD black, but that isn't important. The computer booted up afer reassigning the boot drive, and the only issue I found was that Microsoft for some reason wanted me to verify myself. Once that was done, windows ran normally, no delays in either Photoshop or in my genealogy program. So after a few minutes of checking everything, I shut down and re-installed the Intel SSD. Booted it up and checked a few programs, and so far, no delays, everything is snappy! The only thing that I know of that was changed, is that I verified myself to Microsoft. Could that somehow have been what was causing the slowdown? |
#15
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Homebuilt computer has slowed noticably.... why? Update
On Tue, 04 Sep 2018 14:46:44 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
wrote: Today, I removed my SSD C drive and installed a clone from the CD made about a year ago, as a backup. This happened to be on a 1 TB WD black, but that isn't important. The computer booted up afer reassigning the boot drive, and the only issue I found was that Microsoft for some reason wanted me to verify myself. Once that was done, windows ran normally, no delays in either Photoshop or in my genealogy program. So after a few minutes of checking everything, I shut down and re-installed the Intel SSD. Booted it up and checked a few programs, and so far, no delays, everything is snappy! The only thing that I know of that was changed, is that I verified myself to Microsoft. Could that somehow have been what was causing the slowdown? I regularly, from dedicated storage, impose OS backups;- I've two SSDs and do the streaming backups between them viz a boot arbitrator and a third OS. It's not as much a forensic device as a preventative measure employed on a regular basis over more or less a weekly or monthly routine. No doubt with habit underlying a repetition factor to serve to make the procedure easier and matter of course. I couldn't even begin, or imagine, every adverse anomaly across a length of time which has surfaced. Rather, I should say, that any hardware upgrades have, so far, been a focus on anticipating and some consequent adjustments for backup image compatibility. Doubtlessly many issues have been overwritten and negated, as well a tendency to jump the gun over, potentially, false assumptions. I'm sure it's arguable, for home maintenance, a regular binary overwrite to an accepted steady state condition is preferable to an entropy factor of being incessantly connected to the WEB between;- of course and last to mention industry interests, which might not like the concept, among further provisions regardless being rolled out for a greater vision, as one more or less a shared level of abstraction. |
#16
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Homebuilt computer has slowed noticably.... why? Update
On Tue, 04 Sep 2018 14:46:44 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
Today, I removed my SSD C drive and installed a clone from the CD made about a year ago, as a backup. This happened to be on a 1 TB WD black, but that isn't important. The computer booted up afer reassigning the boot drive, and the only issue I found was that Microsoft for some reason wanted me to verify myself. Once that was done, windows ran normally, no delays in either Photoshop or in my genealogy program. So after a few minutes of checking everything, I shut down and re-installed the Intel SSD. Booted it up and checked a few programs, and so far, no delays, everything is snappy! The only thing that I know of that was changed, is that I verified myself to Microsoft. Could that somehow have been what was causing the slowdown? By swapping the drive over you also reseated the SATA connector I presume. Maybe that was loose and causing errors. -- Regards - Rodney Pont The from address exists but is mostly dumped, please send any emails to the address below e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com |
#17
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Homebuilt computer has slowed noticably.... why? Update
On Wed, 05 Sep 2018 00:19:26 +0100 (BST), "rp"
wrote: By swapping the drive over you also reseated the SATA connector I presume. Maybe that was loose and causing errors. Thanks, I never considered that. It's one of those locking connectors, but I guess it could still be loose or have some corrosion. |
#18
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Homebuilt computer has slowed noticably.... why? Update
On Tue, 04 Sep 2018 19:23:48 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
wrote: On Wed, 05 Sep 2018 00:19:26 +0100 (BST), "rp" wrote: By swapping the drive over you also reseated the SATA connector I presume. Maybe that was loose and causing errors. Thanks, I never considered that. It's one of those locking connectors, but I guess it could still be loose or have some corrosion. If that was the issue, you'd be able to see it in the Event logs. Use Event Viewer to check it out. |
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