Help my PC is dying of heat exhaustion

Desmond wrote:
On Saturday, 20 July 2013 08:43:30 UTC+1, Desmond wrote:
It is so hot here this summer that my computer crashes when it gets hot. I was looking into water cooled pc cases. Is it safe to buy a kit. Also the prices vary from £199 to £1,400.



http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/WC...lue_35292.html



I am not sure about the options here. Do I NEED to pick one or can I just transfer mother board and other things into the case. Any help would be great.



Desmond.

It is nearly 30C in my room and I believe that the room temperature is to high. Yes I have got a good fan on my AMD 4200+ dual core processor. but if air is blown out the back of the case only to be replaced with warm air coming in I can't see a way around it.I have taken the fan off and blown the crap out that gets into it. Currently I have taken the side of the case and I have a desktop fan blowing into it. It seems to be OK that way.
I have a tall tower system 14U (24.5 inch) high. I have a fan at the top but the lead is not long enough to reach the connector on the main board. I do agree that better circulation is needed.

These water cooled cases are not cheep but I have heard that the temperature can be below 15C and you can even remove CPU fan but that sounds a bit dodgy to me.


One other editorial comment.

Check your hard drives. They register temperature via SMART.

You can use the free version of this, and the Health tab,
to display SMART for each drive.

There are a few complete data sheets for hard drives, that
provide a temperature/humidity graph, which shows allowed
operating regime. The more humid it gets, the lower the
allowed operating temperature. While no explanation is
provided, I feel this is related to the drive not being
hermetically sealed, and moist air entering the HDA. At
high humidity (60%), the allowed temperature might be 35C.
If the air was quite dry (35% RH), you might be allowed
50C or a bit more. The only time I can hit 35% here, is
using central air, and by the time I get to 35%, the air
temperature is back down to 21C anyway. So if you met
the graph completely for the drives, it more or less requires
air conditioning.

Now, in the real world, hard drive endure more than that.
But all I can tell you is, I've had one failure of a hard
drive, when the house was uncontrolled for a month in summer,
and the RH hit 60% (carpets start to mildew at 60%). I can't
say whether that is a coincidence or not. Haven't had a failure
since. (And now have a brand new 2 ton AC installed for my small
house.) Due to the pricing structure of electricity here, I
tend to run the AC in the evening, meaning the room environment
here swings wildly during the day. I can't quite reach your
30C temps though. At 6PM I'm still a bit below that.

One of the reasons I have the intake vents in front of my
hard drives open, is to get lots of fresh air over them.
And that's why the delta_T on the drives is so small in
my system. Only a few degrees above ambient, typically.
Right now, both drives register 27C. My RH is 50%, so I'm
in the safe zone on the graph. Current room temperature
is 25C, so my delta on the hard drives is 2C. The temperatures
though, are measured with different sensors, so we don't
really know what the delta is exactly. And at least one
specific model of drive (from years ago), the sensor value
is "stuck" and is bogus. When SMART came out, someone thought
it would be fun to pretend they had a temperature sensor, when
none was provided. Now, temperature sensing is quite common.

The worst computer cases, are the ones that hide the hard
drives in a "dead spot", and no cooling air is available.
That's when I do mods, to fix it.

Paul

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013, ToolPackinMama wrote:

On 7/20/2013 9:05 AM, Desmond wrote:

It is nearly 30C in my room

Well, there's your problem right there. Get a cheap air conditioner. Less
hassle than rebuilding your PC.

One time someone I knew, her website disappeared. The next time I saw her
I asked, and she said "the server melted". It was a computer somewhere in
a closet, and either the door was closed when it shouldn't have, or a fan
died, or something, and it just expired from the heat.

Michael

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 14:09:11 -0400, Paul wrote:

Now, in the real world, hard drive endure more than that.
But all I can tell you is, I've had one failure of a hard
drive, when the house was uncontrolled for a month in summer,
and the RH hit 60% (carpets start to mildew at 60%). I can't
say whether that is a coincidence or not.

Coincidence. I'm running much higher humidity, although in cycles
according to a fair degree of leeway permitted summer AC usage. With
drives 5 to 10 years old, that would still be well under manufactured
stipulations for higher heat tolerance. But, there's really not much
reason to go by to account industry failure, so as a reflection within
endusers ratings, experience and expectations;- That they all do fail
reflects as much a wide regard for disgust in underscoring an
inconvenient loss of storage and its repercussions. I've bought
severly discounted Western Digital HDs from BestBuy event sales that
failed as if set to clockwork, to the day, when their warantee
expired. To say that with some bitterness when regarding Western
Digital, is to say Western Digital will be the first brand I'd as soon
personally skip over;- furthermore to discount such admittance for one
especially comforting, in being what irony has to condition by
imposition upon reasoning as a result of the subjective experience.
Oh, and that's entirely above what filth underlies carpet pads that
don't get regularly vacuumed, otherwise, for perfectly serving intent
beyond superficially little else above to note;. . .berber, shag,
industrial fibers, I've haven't the foggiest clue, beyond it's plain
and brown, and that nothing has sprouted or nefariously inhabits its
recesses to climb out for some induibitably ill-conceived purpose.

Flasherly wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 14:09:11 -0400, Paul wrote:

Now, in the real world, hard drive endure more than that.
But all I can tell you is, I've had one failure of a hard
drive, when the house was uncontrolled for a month in summer,
and the RH hit 60% (carpets start to mildew at 60%). I can't
say whether that is a coincidence or not.

Coincidence. I'm running much higher humidity, although in cycles
according to a fair degree of leeway permitted summer AC usage. With
drives 5 to 10 years old, that would still be well under manufactured
stipulations for higher heat tolerance. But, there's really not much
reason to go by to account industry failure, so as a reflection within
endusers ratings, experience and expectations;- That they all do fail
reflects as much a wide regard for disgust in underscoring an
inconvenient loss of storage and its repercussions. I've bought
severly discounted Western Digital HDs from BestBuy event sales that
failed as if set to clockwork, to the day, when their warantee
expired. To say that with some bitterness when regarding Western
Digital, is to say Western Digital will be the first brand I'd as soon
personally skip over;- furthermore to discount such admittance for one
especially comforting, in being what irony has to condition by
imposition upon reasoning as a result of the subjective experience.
Oh, and that's entirely above what filth underlies carpet pads that
don't get regularly vacuumed, otherwise, for perfectly serving intent
beyond superficially little else above to note;. . .berber, shag,
industrial fibers, I've haven't the foggiest clue, beyond it's plain
and brown, and that nothing has sprouted or nefariously inhabits its
recesses to climb out for some induibitably ill-conceived purpose.

This is the curve for a 1TB hard drive from Hitachi.

I added the yellow coloration, to show the operating region.
The outer curve is for storage conditions for the drive.
The yellow section, is for when the drive is powered.

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/8350/o87.gif

I think I have another drive spec, which has a slightly worse
curve than that one.

And it's interesting, that the last two drives I bought, they
actually came with a bag of silica gel, inside the antistatic
bag with the hard drive.

Paul

En el artículo , Paul
escribió:

And it's interesting, that the last two drives I bought, they
actually came with a bag of silica gel, inside the antistatic
bag with the hard drive.

What's interesting about that? It's just to absorb any moisture which
was trapped in the bag when it was sealed up with the drive inside.

You're over-analysing things as usual, Paul.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

En el artículo , Paul
escribió:

And it's interesting, that the last two drives I bought, they
actually came with a bag of silica gel, inside the antistatic
bag with the hard drive.

What's interesting about that? It's just to absorb any moisture which
was trapped in the bag when it was sealed up with the drive inside.

You're over-analysing things as usual, Paul.

Those bags have become so common, I don't think we even notice them most
of the time. If I open up a radio box and find a pack of that silica gel,
then why wouldn't I find one in with a hard drive? The hard drive probably
costs more than the radio.

Michael

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 17:22:29 -0400, Paul wrote:

This is the curve for a 1TB hard drive from Hitachi.

I added the yellow coloration, to show the operating region.
The outer curve is for storage conditions for the drive.
The yellow section, is for when the drive is powered.

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/8350/o87.gif

I think I have another drive spec, which has a slightly worse
curve than that one.

And it's interesting, that the last two drives I bought, they
actually came with a bag of silica gel, inside the antistatic
bag with the hard drive.

Paul

That's 106-146F at the halfway mark, at an even split for degenerative
humidity as heat increases to its spec'd limit. Hitachi - OK, that's
what happened with IBM when they got tired of holding that ball;- I've
never had so many drives manufacturered from such a wide diversity of
countries, as when I owned IBM drives (can't even remember correctly,
but suspect they might have been under 100Meg/byte class drives). No
doubt some failures in there, too, as they vaguely come back into
recollection;- Hitachi, though, is coming up a semi-blank. ...Possibly
I was into Western Digital when they had contracts with the US Navy,
and Seagate just past that and ever since, except for a "few"
monsterous Samsungs (1-2T/byte drives) from when the floor fell
through prices prior to a hurricane a year or two ago.

Those specs are nasty. I'd really expect better, but it's hard to
argue with the black&white. You could pray for my drives, if vaguely
close to those specs, as they're living a life in hell;- in fact,
don't even bother - I've already got my money out of most the
steady/ready Eddies that have sufficed for system builds, the oldest
ones.

You are not alone.

My DreamPC for 2006 and fixed throughout the years also cannot handle the
heat.

Not even with an Antec 1200 case, somewhat cleaned.

At 27 celcius degrees, the CPU gets so hot that the motherboard's bios shuts
down the PC.

The temperature shutdown seems to be at 50 according to motherboard
settings.

So there I will be... playing Company of Heroes and all of a sudden...
booom... it shuts off.

Well at least this will prevent frying damage or so... so I kinda like it as
long as it doesnt happen well I am busy with something important

So far it has not happened with anything important just gaming.

The solution for me for now is to keep the doors and windows open and allow
some cool breeze to come in... this will drop the temperature down to 26
degrees celcius.

So my computer crashing or not crashing depands on 1 or 2 degrees.

Apperently the AMD X2 3800+ CPU is rated at about 85 watts or so...
apperently that's way too hot.

I am not happy with how CPU's are marketted today...

They all have the same name and same model number... sometimes there will be
a letter behind the cpu's model number for example for latest intel haswell
processor a T.

Apperently the T versions run at reduced clock rates, which makes them
consume less energy... instead of 85 watts it will be 65 watts or 45 or 35
watts or something.

So I was thinking... maybe it's time to ditch the AMD x2+ 3800+ crap cpu...
and switch to something else...

But this could be an expensive joke:

Probably new power supply needed, new motherboard, new memory... maybe even
new graphics card or maybe not.

What's further annoying is the cheap **** that's between the wafer and the
cpu heatspread apperently this could be replaced and make it drop some
degrees.

Not sure what happens if my finger would touch a waver if that would be the
end of it. Does seem interesting but at 35 watts or 45 watts doing that
might not be necessary.

For now I will see how it goes however... there are very hot days ahead...
so keeping the doors open might not be possible.

Right now I am thinking... maybe there still is a socket 939 processor
somewhere.... with much lower heat... that could be nice... but then me
would be a little bit worried about the performance Maybe even a single
core.

Bye,
Skybuck.

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Paul
escribió:

And it's interesting, that the last two drives I bought, they
actually came with a bag of silica gel, inside the antistatic
bag with the hard drive.

What's interesting about that? It's just to absorb any moisture which
was trapped in the bag when it was sealed up with the drive inside.

You're over-analysing things as usual, Paul.


They were the first two hard drives I've ever seen with
silica gel. They didn't waste money on that in the past.
The drives in question, were a 2TB and a 3TB.

Paul

En el artículo , Paul
escribió:


They didn't waste money on that in the past.

It isn't a waste of money. It's to prevent moisture damage to the drive
in transit - if the drive is put somewhere cold, any moisture inside the
sealed bag will condense out onto the platters, which is Bad News.

The reason you haven't seen the silica gel packs previously is because
you've bought drives which have been bulk shipped in large containers
with large silica gel bags. These drives were then repacked by the
seller in individual nags for retail sale, by which time there is no
longer a need for the silica gel.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")